Vacation over - Bose.

[CC1981]

Dont shift goal posts CC. You first claimed Kumble bowled at 65mph average. Now when it seems as though its not the case , you are dithering about saying he has started to bowl slower recently etc.. and here is a typical Kumble delivery, for you to see. Check the speed too.

I am NOT shifting goalposts. it is a KNOWN FACT that Kumble has been bowling a lot slower and giving the ball a lot more air since he returned from his injury in 2001 (which caused him to miss the famous series vs OZ). It is a fact that kumble was more of a medium pacer in the 90s than a spinner - even batsmen who'd faced him back then said if you played him like a medium pacer, you could neutralize kumble a lot more effectively. You providing a clip from 1 yr ago shows nothing, really.

This is just probability

You *DO* realize that probability and that too, probability by 'eyeballing it' instead of extensive mathematical extrapolations, is nothing more than guesswork ?

[gator]

That 'if you excell at domestic cricket, you deserve a shot at intl. cricket' doesnt work, given that it has been their bible for the past 20 yrs or so.

it failed.... look at Reiffel, Bichel, Brad Williams.... all good domestic bowlers, but nothing great in the international arena... they recognized and learnt from their mistakes... hence they are grooming Tait, Mitchell - all 140+ bowlers who need a lot of tuning.... ur knowledge is half-baked....

[Ram]

I am NOT shifting goalposts. it is a KNOWN FACT that Kumble has been bowling a lot slower and giving the ball a lot more air since he returned from his injury in 2001 (which caused him to miss the famous series vs OZ). It is a fact that kumble was more of a medium pacer in the 90s than a spinner - even batsmen who'd faced him back then said if you played him like a medium pacer, you could neutralize kumble a lot more effectively.

Fair enough about your claims that he may have started bowling more slowly off late ( which may after all , may not be true at all). Still if a Slow kumble bowled at 88-90 kmph, a "faster" kumble probably bowled at 95-100 kmph. That is still WAY short of the 120 kmph mark that we are talking about. And there is no way in this planet that Kumble is going to bowl at 120 kmph , with a sideways release of the ball and a jumpy run-up.

You *DO* realize that probability and that too, probability by 'eyeballing it' instead of extensive mathematical extrapolations, is nothing more than guesswork ?

You can throw in all complex engineering terms that you want. But even if label our observations as a crude , raw guesswork , it WORKS and that is what counts. You dont have to scientifically prove everything that one claims. There is something called knowledge , gathered from all those hours of watching this game on T.V. And that knowledge says Bose wont be successful in the long run.

[gator]

CC, u have to play a sport to understand tht theoretical mumbo-jumbo doesnt fly on the field... Google and books can only help a little....

[CC1981]

CC, u have to play a sport to understand tht theoretical mumbo-jumbo doesnt fly on the field... Google and books can only help a little....

I think it is safe to say that i played sports at a far higher level than you have in your life. So again, do NOT patronize me.

[CC1981]

it failed.... look at Reiffel' date=' Bichel, Brad Williams.... all good domestic bowlers, but nothing great in the international arena... they recognized and learnt from their mistakes... hence they are grooming Tait, Mitchell - all 140+ bowlers who need a lot of tuning.... ur knowledge is half-baked....[/quote'] Liar. It didnt fail because THAT is the Aussie stategy and STILL is the Ausse strategy. Obviously, some players will do good, some will bomb out- but FAR more logical than your half-baked theories and guess-timates.

[CC1981]

You can throw in all complex engineering terms that you want. But even if label our observations as a crude , raw guesswork , it WORKS and that is what counts. You dont have to scientifically prove everything that one claims. There is something called knowledge , gathered from all those hours of watching this game on T.V. And that knowledge says Bose wont be successful in the long run.

Same was said about kumble, about Saurav, etc. It is nothing more than guesswork. Thats the bottomline.

[CC1981]

it failed.... look at Reiffel' date=' Bichel, Brad Williams.... all good domestic bowlers, but nothing great in the international arena... they recognized and learnt from their mistakes... hence they are grooming Tait, Mitchell - all 140+ bowlers who need a lot of tuning.... ur knowledge is half-baked....[/quote'] Liar. It didnt fail because THAT is the Aussie stategy and STILL is the Ausse strategy. Obviously, some players will do good, some will bomb out- but FAR more logical than your half-baked theories and guess-timates. Tait earned his spot by being the top wicket-taker in domestic cricket. So please do not fudge facts to support your crumbling nonsensical theories.

[Ram]

Same was said about kumble, about Saurav, etc. It is nothing more than guesswork. Thats the bottomline.

Well , I am free to make my guesses , and you are free to counter them. we shall soon see who is vindicated and who isnt. And Gats , I am a bit surprised you have included Brad Williams in that list. At his best , Brad was fiery quick bowler , often bowling at over 145 kmph. He came into the Aussie team for his pace.

[gator]

Liar. It didnt fail because THAT is the Aussie stategy and STILL is the Ausse strategy. Obviously, some players will do good, some will bomb out- but FAR more logical than your half-baked theories and guess-timates. Tait earned his spot by being the top wicket-taker in domestic cricket. So please do not fudge facts to support your crumbling nonsensical theories.

Then why is Jacques not playing, while Clarkey is..... as usual, CC spouting nonsense....

[CC1981]

Then why is Jacques not playing' date=' while Clarkey is..... as usual, CC spouting nonsense....[/quote'] Jacques isnt because Jacques is an OPENER and the OPENER's slot isnt open. Nice try spouting garbage and trying to support your half-truths. Fact is, if you are the leading runs scorer/wicket-taker in domestic Aussie cricket for a couple of seasons, you are literally garanteed a shot in test cricket. Aussie track record over the past 20 yrs shows this to be categorically true. Ofcourse, nomatter what you do, you wont replace a hayden or a Langer or a McGrath unless they drastically lose form, so your Jacques example is nothing more than ridiculous tongue-in-cheek at best.

[CC1981]

Well , I am free to make my guesses , and you are free to counter them. we shall soon see who is vindicated and who isnt. And Gats , I am a bit surprised you have included Brad Williams in that list. At his best , Brad was fiery quick bowler , often bowling at over 145 kmph. He came into the Aussie team for his pace.

Yah well, i just dont do guesswork in this respect.

[Ram]

Yah well' date=' i just dont do guesswork in this respect.[/quote'] I respect that. Abs no qualms. And Shaun Tait is in the team purely for his pace , which is what gets him the wickets. Ponting made abs no bones about what role he saw for Tait - Bowl as fast as possible !

[Predator_05]

Fact is' date=' if you are the leading runs scorer/wicket-taker in domestic Aussie cricket for a couple of seasons, you are literally garanteed a shot in test cricket. Aussie track record over the past 20 yrs shows this to be categorically true. [/quote'] Not true. Martin Love, DeVenuto, Marcus North were run-machines for years but hardly ever got a look-in. Mitchell Johnson was picked for Australia in the ODIs despite having a very average domestic record at the time, as was Brett Lee for Tests back in '00.

[CC1981]

Not true. Martin Love' date=' DeVenuto, Marcus North were run-machines for years but hardly ever got a look-in. Mitchell Johnson was picked for Australia in the ODIs despite having a very average domestic record at the time, as was Brett Lee for Tests back in '00.[/quote'] All those names- they succeeded when there was NO SPOT available. That is a different story alltogether. Aussies will give you a chance if you consistently top the domestic league for a couple of seasons...practically garanteed...PROVIDED there is a spot ! They ent gonna drop Ponting or a mcGrath or mark waugh etc. to make room for a newbie! Bose aint competeing against ANY established bowler in Indian lineup!

[kumble_rocks]

Jesus, I can't believe that some of you guys are defending this medium paced trundler. Haven't we seen enough of these trundlers all our facking life. Should include him in the hall of fame of trundlers headed by the great Madan lal , Ghavri , binny etc :haha: BTW , Afridi can average 120 kmph. Seriously though , only reason he can be considered is if he can hit the deck with seam upright like Mo Asif. Otherwise his bowling is canon fodder for modern day batsmen .

[The Outsider]

The cricket world has seen literally hundreds of Boses come and go without making any impact. It has been proven through history that atleast a bit of nip is required in your bowling to take international wickets. I haven't seen a lot of Bose, the little I saw of him he looked in the 120-125 kmph range. Whether one likes it or not and even though I am a big supporter of disciplined bowling that is just not quick enough to trouble international batsmen consistently. As for those talking about giving some one a fair chance before reaching judgements, well based on cricket history and my understanding of the game I am willing to stick my neck out and say Bose is a deemed international failure and would willingly cop all the brickbats if he is successful. It ain't happening, stop hoping against hope. Now how does one become so successful in domestic cricket. For the more observant here, Indian domestic cricket in its frenzy to prepare lively pitches leaves grass on making some of the bowlers unplayable over the first day or so before the sun dries up the grass and the pitches become pancakes. It has nothing to do with better pitch preparation. There is no thought to the bounce, carry and consistency in a pitch. Leaving grass on = Sporting pitch for those morons much like the Lahore and Rawalpindi tracks of '04 Pak tour or the Mohali track of '05. Trundlers like Bose have no future in international cricket. Our selectors should recognize that and keep him fit for FC cricket so that our upcoming batsmen get some practice of swing on golf courses.

[Ram]

Now how does one become so successful in domestic cricket. For the more observant here, Indian domestic cricket in its frenzy to prepare lively pitches leaves grass on making some of the bowlers unplayable over the first day or so before the sun dries up the grass and the pitches become pancakes. It has nothing to do with better pitch preparation. There is no thought to the bounce, carry and consistency in a pitch. Leaving grass on = Sporting pitch for those morons much like the Lahore and Rawalpindi tracks of '04 Pak tour or the Mohali track of '05.

There is one logical flaw in that argument. Why arent other Medium pace bowlers not as successful as Bose then ? Attributing his success to lively first day tracks is a bit simplistic , to be honest.

[kumble_rocks]

Good Post Shwetabh .:thumbs_up:

[The Outsider]

There is one logical flaw in that argument. Why arent other Medium pace bowlers not as successful as Bose then ?

Who says they aren't? Look at the likes of trundlers like Joginder Sharma, Kalyankrishna, Ishant Shrama, VRV Singh, Rakesh Patel, Praveen Kumar etc. etc. They all had a bumper Ranji season last year and lot of that category have been having such seasons for the last few years.