Ram Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I like his attitude. However, I think he is being made a sacrificial lamb against England's new ball attack. He's a plucky little character who bats well down the order, and that's where he belongs. They are trying to manufacture an opener out of him, and it ain't going to work against this class of opposition, I'll tell you now. So you are assuming/predicting he is doomed to fail and hence want to bring back Sehwag ? Thats a bad line of thinking i would say. Even going by that thinking , i would rather play some other opener than bringing back Sehwag. Sehwag should pay a price for his pathetically inconsistent performance and an almost laughable attitude. Link to comment
Predator_05 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 So you lot can't understand why Gambhir was picked ahead of Sehwag ? Read this again then --> http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=8244&highlight=luckless As for Jaffer or Gambhir, as of right now i'd stick with Jaffer. He has been one of the most consistent batsmen India have had in a while. Certainly moreso than guys like Tendulkar and Dhoni, whose positions in the XI go unquestioned no matter how poorly they perform. The team will do the same thing they did in 2002 - give Jaffer the first two tests; if he fails in both than they will bring in someone else. Link to comment
Dhondy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 And please dont compare Sachin and Sehwag. Sehwag in his last 35 internationel innings , has passed JUST 4 times. Sachin has never gone through such a pathetic patch. He will do better than that with a baseball bat. Dunno what he failed to pass in 35 innings, but he still averaged 42.76 during that period. Link to comment
novpj Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Dhondy Here are some numbers to ponder (I have an excel file with the details - if you care to indulge) 1. Since 2006, Jaffer has averaged higher than Sehwag in tests 2. Jaffer has more scores above 50 and equal no. of scores above 30 3. To accout for pitch conditions, I also looked at the performance of top 5 Indian batsmen (excluding Sehwag) and compared them to Sehwag and Jaffer's performance - Sehwag outscored the top 5 avg. 4 times and Jaffer did so 6 times. 4. Also given the trend, deterioration in Sehwag's performance I dont know how one can argue that Sehwag is a good replacement for Jaffer. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Link to comment
Dhondy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Dhondy Here are some numbers to ponder 2006+2007 testsSehwagTop 5 (excldng Sehwag) avgTop 5 total (excluding Sehwag)JafferSt. Johns-136231151St. Johns-24178.2391212St. Lucia-118067.833943St. Kitts-13136.418260St. Kitts-26551.2520554Sabina park-1024.41221Sabina park-2420.81041Wanderers-14331659Wanderers-23323.41174Kingsmead-103015037Kingsmead-2814.87433Cape town-14057285116Cape town-210221102Avg 35 37 44 * Includes score for top 4 only since the match was drawn Insights: 1. Since 2006, Jaffer has averaged higher than Sehwag 2. Jaffer has more scores above 50 and equal scores above 30 3. To accout for pitch conditions, I also added the performance of top 5 Indian batsmen (excluding Sehwag) in this table - Sehwag outscored the top 5 avg 4 times and Jaffer did so 6 times. 4. Also given the trend, deterioration in Sehwag's performance I dont know how one can argue that Sehwag is a good replacement for Jaffer. Put that in your pipe and smoke it What shall I smoke? Those numbers looks like hashish grown on a sulabh sauchalaya farm. Link to comment
novpj Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 sorry - look at the revised post. The attachment didnt come out clearly. Link to comment
Dhondy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 So 2006 is the cutoff for selections now, is it? Link to comment
yoda Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sehwag was dropped because of one man...vengsarkar. Vengy has been gunning for Sehwag ever since he came on board. Dravid got him in the WC team. After that debacle, the captain lost his clout and Vengy had his wish. Unfortunately Vengsarkar has not enough cells to distinguish between tests and ODIs except to screwup as in the case of chawla. Link to comment
Predator_05 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sehwag since the '06 England series; 10 matches, 541 runs @ 30 Jaffer since the '06 England series; 12 matches, 945 runs @ 45 Jaffer has outperformed Sehwag since his return to the Test team. Dhondy ? Link to comment
Dhondy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sehwag didn't get to play against BD, Pred. Jaffer has an unfair advantage there. Link to comment
Dhondy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 So even at his nadir, Sehwag's averaging 30, eh? What's Gambhir's Test average without BD? Link to comment
Predator_05 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Sehwag didn't get to play against BD' date=' Pred. Jaffer has an unfair advantage there.[/quote'] OK, i won't count that series. Now his records read; 10 matches, 807 runs @ 42 That is still 12 runs more per dig than Sehwag. Big difference. Link to comment
Bumper Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 So you lot can't understand why Gambhir was picked ahead of Sehwag ? Read this again then --> http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=8244&highlight=luckless As for Jaffer or Gambhir, as of right now i'd stick with Jaffer. He has been one of the most consistent batsmen India have had in a while. Certainly moreso than guys like Tendulkar and Dhoni, whose positions in the XI go unquestioned no matter how poorly they perform. The team will do the same thing they did in 2002 - give Jaffer the first two tests; if he fails in both than they will bring in someone else. Utter tripe. The only performance that matters for selection to a test squad over Sehwag, is either past reputation or outstanding recent test form. Gambhir has neither. In 21 test innings, your dude has only two 50s against decent opponents, both at home. His 96 vs SA was in the flattest of batting conditions. Only his 52 vs Pak in Bangalore merits mention. Gambhir is a proven minnow basher & heck a poor one at even that (often fails to cash in after being set). Picking him ahead of Veeru in an overseas tour, makes no sense whatsoever Link to comment
Predator_05 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Utter tripe. The only performance that matters for selection to a test squad over Sehwag' date=' is either past reputation or outstanding recent test form. [/quote'] Like f*ck it does. Tell me - how did Jaffer get into the team for England last season ? Outstanding recent Test form ? Even though his last test was in '02 ? The only performance that matters is your form in FC. If you are scoring sh*tloads of runs against good teams, you deserve a chance - moreso if a current Indian batsman (eg; Sehwag) is scoring 30 runs per innings - the door is open. The most recent of Gambhir's Tests was back in '05. We are now in '07. Past reputation ? LMFAO. Let's bring back Gavaskar then. Past reputation counts for NOTHING. Why do you keep arguing against Tendulkar then, his reputation is bigger than anyone elses. Recent form counts above all else Link to comment
Ram Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 So 2006 is the cutoff for selections now' date=' is it?[/quote'] When you pick a team in mid-2007 , performances of which period would you look at ? 2001 ?:wink_smile: Link to comment
Dhondy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Based on those stats posted by novpj and Pred, I believe Jaffer deserves to be in the team. But Gambhir for Sehwag? C'mon! And yes, Pred, I read your article, but this chap is a consummate loser- a minnow basher as Bumps puts it. How many runs did Sehwag score in his first 13 Tests? Link to comment
novpj Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 No Dhondy lets use 2004 performance as basis for selection because that where you are stuck when you talk about Sehwag. Its quite obvious that this argument is more emotional for you and logic wont work. Link to comment
Bumper Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 Like f*ck it does. Tell me - how did Jaffer get into the team for England last season ? Outstanding recent Test form ? Even though his last test was in '02 ? The only performance that matters is your form in FC. If you are scoring sh*tloads of runs against good teams, you deserve a chance - moreso if a current Indian batsman (eg; Sehwag) is scoring 30 runs per innings - the door is open. The most recent of Gambhir's Tests was back in '05. We are now in '07. Faulty analogy. When Jaffer was picked he hadnt played anytime in the recent past. And did we dump a SRT to bring Jaffer in ? Jaffer replaced a then struggling Gambhir. The bet was Jaffer could be no worse than Gambhir & he wasnt. Replacing Sehwag with a Gambir on such flimsy evidence, is pathetic reasoning Past reputation ? LMFAO. Let's bring back Gavaskar then. Past reputation counts for NOTHING. Why do you keep arguing against Tendulkar then, his reputation is bigger than anyone elses. Recent form counts above all else Dont twist my words. I said the case will be stronger for Gambhir atleast if he were picked on past reputation. Atleast u could justify his selection then, citing his past peformances (like how Veeru was picked for the world cup). In this instance, selection of Gambhir over Sehwag has no justifiable reason whatsoever Link to comment
Dhondy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 No Dhondy lets use 2004 performance as basis for selection because that where you are stuck when you talk about Sehwag. Its quite obvious that this argument is more emotional for you and logic wont work. Gee, Tendulkar should have been dropped in 2004. After all, he only averaged 17 in 2003. Oh, the emotional selectors! Link to comment
novpj Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 IMO only one opening slot is up for grabs becoz I dont see why we wont want to cultivate Karthick as an opener (given his performance to date). I would pick Karhtick over Jaffar and Sehwag anyday - love his attitude. So dont see how Sehwag fits in the team in any case. Link to comment
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