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For how Long can MSD be the captain due to the TINA factor?

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An important point to remember when discussing any captain is the following: A captain is ONLY as good as his team. The best thing a captain can do is to keep the team together during tough times and bring out the best in his players during good times. Tactics are overrated IMHO and certain tactics might come out and make a captain look brilliant but at the end of the day it's all about executing pre-made plans and making minor adjustments once things don't go as planned on the field. Dhoni has done what only 1 other captain has achieved for India and that is win us the world cup and for that he will be rated in the top echelon of Indian captains regardless of what he does from here on in.

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:headshake:many will disagree with me....but d fat is dhoni is not an agressive captain, just not in england tour but from 2009 particularly when india lost 2-4 2 aus in odi series, his captaincy , particularly field place, rotating bowlers, playing **** players have all been atrocious......he has has a certain like for trundlers, he`s not brave as captain, his field placing was horrible in england, his post match comments r so poor nd unbelievably farce..........he has won 4-0 at home against d poms, but can one forget the painful nd horrible series in england, our team was compared 2 donkeys, his own batting is very poor intests....its all falling in abroad series............i dont think dhoni is dominant captain as mayb he was b4 2009.....i also know he wont step down, but i kinda dont praise his captaincy

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Ganguly fans have little credibility when they talk about Dhoni ' date=' so would ignore them on this topic ..but for some one who said his captaincy was good today , yeah may be but it wasn't different in England either ..just that some times things don't work ... whole team looked disinterested in England ..infact I don't ever remember giving up on the team so early in the series ...you just knew we where going to lose that series no matter what... When the likes of vvs and Tendulkar play such irresponsible cricket , there isn't much a captain could do . Indian cricket has seen highs which we where never close to before , this team under Dhoni has given us more good days than bad ones ...he's the best thing to have happened to Indian cricket in recent years .[/quote'] So the credit of the recent good times go completely to dhoni but any defeat suddenly becomes the team and seniors fault? Dhoni would be the first one to admit that that the teams high were all due to team work

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For how Long can MSD be the captain due to the TINA factor? Another wrist slitting thread. With MSD suffering regular bouts of brain freezes as shown in his asinine field placements (more so in the last 12 months) MSD's captaincy looks to have run its course. With a 4-0 whitewash again looking a real possibility, we are inching closer to the need of a fresh approach especially with the team set to enter ts rebuilding phase. In the past, every time there has been talk about MSD being removed as skipper, the point of "there is no alternative" (TINA) is raised. Even now, the potential captains Gambhir, Sehwag, Kohli are all struggling themselves. For how long will MSD be able to retain his job due to this? Or will he get a lifeline as we do not play a test series for next 6-7 months? .

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Dhoni is a great ODI and T20 captain.. yes he sux as a Test Captain because he doesn't seem to understand the value of putting pressure on the opposition batsmen by having a tight field. Dravid is probably the best option.. I know he is already 38.. but 40 is the new 32.. and I think he still has probably about 3 more years of play left in him. By then I am hoping Gambhir will grow some balls or perhaps Raina will be matured enough to captain.

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How exactly u expect Dhoni to attack when our batsmen score 190 on a 400 + wicket.Asu are scoring with ease against new ball.If he had attacked with old ball as some genius here want they would have already reached 600 plus total. As long as our batsmen bat pathetically we cant put pressure with attacking fields.And even if we set attacking fields apart from Kohli no one else is exactly agile enough to cut off quick singles.Aus batsmen will take quick singles all day long. Clarke mostly set similar fields too.The only difference is our great batsmen cant run quick singles to save their life. Sachin Sehwag Laxman Gambhir have combinedly scored single hundred in last 14 innings home and away.They are the ones to be dropped.We shouldnt even be discussing about dropping bowlers or Dhoni when our senior batsmen continue to bat pathetically. I dont mind Dhoni being sacked as captain but some of the suggestions like Gambhir Sachin and Sehwag are laughable.Trying to blame everything else when batting by our seniors is the sole reason for demise is laughable.We did the same by excusing the batting by putting all the blame on bowlers and BCCI in Eng tour.And exactly doing the same again. The only guy who should be considered as an alternative to Dhoni is Zaheer if he can prove his fitness.Otherwise Dhoni is our best option whose place in the team is not questioned

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He just needs to be a little more aggressive and trust his bowlers to pick 20 wickets, and somehow he needs to be charged up and proactive all the time. The coolness that looked so cool when the team was performing has just started to transform into complacency with every loss.

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If Dhoni has even litte bit of self respect left in him after two disastrous overseas tours then he must resign at the end of the current series .
He should but he won't. Has too many endorsements, ads and promotions which are dependent on him being captain. He has no self respect as has sold his soul to the corporate world.

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He should but he won't. Has too many endorsements, ads and promotions which are dependent on him being captain. He has no self respect as has sold his soul to the corporate world.
+1 ... the guy doesnt have motivation, just cares about money nd deals,i kinda despise him nowadays+ his ego is a big factor, listening to him is like eating yogurt every meal.... the guy has just lost it nd he wont resign, so its a big shame :facepalm:

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Another wrist slitting thread. With MSD suffering regular bouts of brain freezes as shown in his asinine field placements (more so in the last 12 months) MSD's captaincy looks to have run its course. With a 4-0 whitewash again looking a real possibility, we are inching closer to the need of a fresh approach especially with the team set to enter ts rebuilding phase. In the past, every time there has been talk about MSD being removed as skipper, the point of "there is no alternative" (TINA) is raised. Even now, the potential captains Gambhir, Sehwag, Kohli are all struggling themselves. For how long will MSD be able to retain his job due to this? Or will he get a lifeline as we do not play a test series for next 6-7 months? .
Ambani :giggle:

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+1 ... the guy doesnt have motivation, just cares about money nd deals,i kinda despise him nowadays+ his ego is a big factor, listening to him is like eating yogurt every meal.... the guy has just lost it nd he wont resign, so its a big shame :facepalm:
How much more daft can u get seriously?

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Yes, Dhoni's captaincy has been poor, our middle order sucks, our bowling is flat etc. But these are symptoms of a bigger problem - OUR OPENERS. Fix the openers, the rest will fall in place. Sehwag has to click & Gambhir has to find a way to support him. Even if Gambhir does not score, its ok. He should do, what Chopra did in 2003-04. Opening is the main issue ailing our team. I cannot emphasize this enough. We are a different team with Waggy firing on all cylinders.

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In the past due to our batting firing and runs on the board his field placings havent come under scrutiny, day 2 he was too defensive and wasted time bowling Sehwag and Kohli. However the disaster on these 2 tests is down to 3 people, Ghambir, Laxman and Kohli. If these guys had scored 50+ our bowlers would not have faced such an impossible chance and things would have been more positive. However he is the best we have and no negatives about his batting when you have the likes of Patel/Karthik as alternatives.

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Make Zaheer the captain, its him thats always advising the pace bowlers on the field anyway so might as wll make him the captain, Tendulkar and Dravid can pass some tips to batsman when they are in the middle or from the dressing room

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Make Zaheer the captain' date=' its him thats always advising the pace bowlers on the field anyway so might as wll make him the captain, Tendulkar and Dravid can pass some tips to batsman when they are in the middle or from the dressing room[/quote'] :hysterical: working from home Captain

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Sehwag should be made captain. Dhoni has been awful, so laid back, no tactics, no strategy, letting bowlers bowl whatever they want. He has two bowlers who can rattle batsman at over 90 mph, once there was no movement or swing there was no tactics to use that pace and make batsmen think something different. Why couldn't he put shortleg and 2 men back for pull and hook and greet them with barrage of bouncers. Aggressiveness has gone completely. This cool attitude does not always work always. If you are not aggressive, the opposition team will sit on you, like this. After 37/3, they scored 659, shame on the team. Sehwag showed in the ODI series against WI that he is an aggressive captain which may not work all the time in ODIs, but in tests, it will work more often than not. Dhoni can continue in ODIs.

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poor bowling was the reason for spread out field...nobody could keep the pressure ...we always gave away boundary balls and they kept on hitting boundaries with ease...once thebowling becomes so dead..no pace, nomovement, nobounde, nospin...field has to be spread when u score 191 on such belter of a pitch... and lets not even talk about our fielding...budhe log...dont even run after the ball to save boundaries...forget about diving n all...so unfit... theres no fault of captain for such pathetic show by other players... its high time we bring in young players and groom someone from them by making him vicecaptain...so that atleast he doesnt have to go through such old/unfit teams through his time as captain... Dhoni has done good job as captain...

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You saw the Oz bowling after the final drinks break? They just kept on bowling outised off, accoridng to the fields and pegged away at the same spots. You can set fields for such kinds of bowlers. Have you ever seen MSD keeping a defensive field for Zak? No!! There is a reason for that. It's because he has trust on Zak. If you see the other bowlers, Umesh yadav is highly guilty of slipping on down the leg side every over. He did that in MCG as well. Ishant is wasting his energy in bowling. Ashwin also seems to be dropping it too short at times. Tactically MSD is defensive and spreading the field at MCG for tail enders was a mistake but you can't lay all the blame upon him when your batsmen give you a grand total of 190 on a patta and you have bowlers who can spray the ball around.

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poor bowling was the reason for spread out field...nobody could keep the pressure ...we always gave away boundary balls and they kept on hitting boundaries with ease...once thebowling becomes so dead..no pace, nomovement, nobounde, nospin...field has to be spread when u score 191 on such belter of a pitch... and lets not even talk about our fielding...budhe log...dont even run after the ball to save boundaries...forget about diving n all...so unfit... theres no fault of captain for such pathetic show by other players... its high time we bring in young players and groom someone from them by making him vicecaptain...so that atleast he doesnt have to go through such old/unfit teams through his time as captain... Dhoni has done good job as captain...
And I would say "spread out field was the reason for poor bowling". If you saw the first test at the MCG, Dhoni had a deep point, a long on and a deep square when Hilfenhaus came in to bat in the 2nd innings, with Australia effectively 247/9. THREE outfielders for a number 11 to start with! Even Bradman wouldn't have been treated with as much respect! Dhoni obviously has NO F***ING IDEA how to play test cricket, be it winning tosses, batting, encouraging bowlers or setting fields. He is just a lost puppy when it comes to test cricket.

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I have always maintained this ever since NZ 2009 that Dhoni is way too defensive a captain in Tests and thinks in the old English way (rule out the possibility of a defeat before pressing for victory). And that he becomes attacking in ODIs and T-20s because in these two versions he has no option to do that - either you win or lose. And hence goes for a win in the ODIs and T20s. NZ 2009 setting them a target of 600? I mean what a bloody wuss he was! 400 was enough...alright if you wanted some security 450 was enough. If you are not confident of defending 500 in a game then you have no business winning that game. Bloody wuss! The main reason India got knocked out of number 1 position so easily (with just 124-126 points at most times) was because we never won series with big margins. And Dhoni's captaincy is the only reason for that. In WI we won 1-0 - effing disgrace. Against NZ at home we won 1-0 ffs! Even Azza was a more attacking captain than Dhoni has been. Let's not blame everything on the lack of bowlers or batsmen performance. One of the duties of a captain is to fu

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poor bowling was the reason for spread out field...nobody could keep the pressure ...we always gave away boundary balls and they kept on hitting boundaries with ease...once thebowling becomes so dead..no pace, nomovement, nobounde, nospin...field has to be spread when u score 191 on such belter of a pitch... and lets not even talk about our fielding...budhe log...dont even run after the ball to save boundaries...forget about diving n all...so unfit... theres no fault of captain for such pathetic show by other players... its high time we bring in young players and groom someone from them by making him vicecaptain...so that atleast he doesnt have to go through such old/unfit teams through his time as captain... Dhoni has done good job as captain...
You saw the Oz bowling after the final drinks break? They just kept on bowling outised off, accoridng to the fields and pegged away at the same spots. You can set fields for such kinds of bowlers. Have you ever seen MSD keeping a defensive field for Zak? No!! There is a reason for that. It's because he has trust on Zak. If you see the other bowlers, Umesh yadav is highly guilty of slipping on down the leg side every over. He did that in MCG as well. Ishant is wasting his energy in bowling. Ashwin also seems to be dropping it too short at times. Tactically MSD is defensive and spreading the field at MCG for tail enders was a mistake but you can't lay all the blame upon him when your batsmen give you a grand total of 190 on a patta and you have bowlers who can spray the ball around.
Top posts :two_thumbs_up:

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You saw the Oz bowling after the final drinks break? They just kept on bowling outised off, accoridng to the fields and pegged away at the same spots. You can set fields for such kinds of bowlers. Have you ever seen MSD keeping a defensive field for Zak? No!! There is a reason for that. It's because he has trust on Zak. If you see the other bowlers, Umesh yadav is highly guilty of slipping on down the leg side every over. He did that in MCG as well. Ishant is wasting his energy in bowling. Ashwin also seems to be dropping it too short at times. Tactically MSD is defensive and spreading the field at MCG for tail enders was a mistake but you can't lay all the blame upon him when your batsmen give you a grand total of 190 on a patta and you have bowlers who can spray the ball around.
isnt 190 all the more reason to try n bowl the opp. out quickly.the bowlers do spray it around,but they do get it right too.wen they get it right n force the error,theres no one to catch it..with attacking fields they will be encouraged to bowl a line

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Agree with the above post. With low scores its more incentive to attack because you desperately need wickets. I think his captaincy has become more and more defensive over the past couple of years. But the TINA factor is the reality. Our test side will undergo drastic changes over the next 2-3 years. The big 3 will go and I suspect Zaheer won't be around for much longer (given his injury concerns). Possibly Sehwag, but his attitude appears indifferent a lot. Gambhir is an option but he needs to sort out his form first. Can't be any of the big 3. Kohli has a few obvious attitude problems and in any case hasn't even cemented his spot yet. If players like Dinesh Karthik held on to their spot, then they could have been options.

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I am looking forward to a more aggrashive kaptaan now more than ever simply because to observe what changes the new kaptaan brings to our **** seam bowling attack in test kirkut.

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We have no alternative. We know that. Dhoni knows that. The opposition knows that too. Our future captains are busy trying to play the short ball, warming benches or showing the crowd the finger.

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S Ganguly was already talking about Gautam Gambhir as the next captain in tests' date=' today in the post match review[/quote'] Gambhir needs to end the speculation about his spot first. A big hundred tomorrow will, a 70 or 80 won't.

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S Ganguly was already talking about Gautam Gambhir as the next captain in tests' date=' today in the post match review[/quote'] A Captain needs to be consistent before thinking about/being suggested for captaincy. Otherwise we'll have the Ganguly, Dravid, Tendulkar, Dhoni scenarios playing all over again./

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We have no alternative. We know that. Dhoni knows that. The opposition knows that too. Our future captains are busy trying to play the short ball, warming benches or showing the crowd the finger.
A Captain needs to be consistent before thinking about/being suggested for captaincy. Otherwise we'll have the Ganguly, Dravid, Tendulkar, Dhoni scenarios playing all over again./
:dito:

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how cant we blame captain for lack of tactica..look at this we let australia score 622 runs for the loss of just one wicket.
Yet on that same pitch our top six can only muster a pathetic 120 runs.So how do u blame the bowlers or captain when the batsmen put a ridiculous below par score on a absolute flat wicket. Did u watch Aus bowling today? They had deep cover and deep square leg for Sachin right from the first ball despite having a lead of 400.Because the wicket is flat and outfield is lightening quick.If we tried to attack the would have declared yesterday itself.

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Yet on that same pitch our top six can only muster a pathetic 120 runs.So how do u blame the bowlers or captain when the batsmen put a ridiculous below par score on a absolute flat wicket. Did u watch Aus bowling today? They had deep cover and deep square leg for Sachin right from the first ball despite having a lead of 400.Because the wicket is flat and outfield is lightening quick.If we tried to attack the would have declared yesterday itself.
I don't think most of us are calling for his head based on just this game. It is the pattern of defensive captaincy that Dhoni is exhibiting consistently which is irking us

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I don't think most of us are calling for his head based on just this game. It is the pattern of defensive captaincy that Dhoni is exhibiting consistently which is irking us
its not just defensive thinking, not thinking enough as a captain, no instant tactics, no on the spot strategy to surprise opposition, just waiting for them to make mistake. despite having 2 bowlers capable of bowling 145k, they did not try enough bouncers to clark and hussey both can be susceptible to good bouncers, had employ short leg and fielders for hook and pull and encourge bowlers to bowl short, aggressive when there was no swing.

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Watching Dhoni captain thesedays is like a replay of the bad days of England when Mike Artherton was in charge and it was all about damage limitation. For a team aspiring to be the best such negative tactics are not the way to reach the top. Might work occasionally but to rely on them as a default is just embarrassing.

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That is a ridiculously harsh assessment of Dhoni’s captaincy by the OP. Cliches are boring, you still have to use them if there are no other alternatives, so here goes – A captain is only as good as the team. Anyone who says it was Dhoni’s captaincy that is the root cause of India’s troubles is completely missing the point. Assuming that the detractors will accept that Dhoni’s captaincy has not really changed at all, how come the same ‘defensive’ tactics took us to the top of the test world for 18 months and won us the world cup for the first time in 28 years? Besides, intelligent field placements, or lack thereof, are way overrated. If the main complaint against Dhoni is that he sometimes is too defensive, that I can guarantee there have previous India captains who were far worse than that. Azhar was a pathetic sell-out. Sachin couldn’t do 2+2 when the pressure was on. Ganguly was a great captain, but there was always the shadow of his inconsistent batting hanging over his head and Dravid was simply too mute. And talking of defensive field placements, what about Michael Clarke having just one slip and a deep point in the boundary in the last 1 hr of the day’s play, with his side 400 runs ahead? Can you imagine the phony, fabricated uproar if MSD had done that? Its all well and good having men all over the batsmen to make it look good on T.V, but whats the point in doing that when the batsmen are caning the ball all over the field? The aussies scored 600 runs for the loss of just 1 wicket, the 2nd highest stretch of runs in the game after Sanga-J’dene’s 624 partnership. That’s how good the pitch was. They say familiarity breeds contempt. It seems like 4 years of MSD has finally begun to wear some people off. But lets not forget where we were before and where he has taken us. Of course, the building blocks of our success were well in place by the time MSD took over, but his captaincy is the glue that holds this team together.

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^ I am not making the argument that Dhoni's captaincy is the "root cause" for India's failures. Having watched cricket and played it I totally understand the meaning of - captain is just as good as his team. What I am trying to say is that Dhoni's captaincy is not a positive factor in Test cricket. Let's not confuse his ODI skippering abilities with his Test skippering abilities. In ODIs he is the best captain we have ever had...way ahead of even Dada. In Test cricket he is worse than Azza. And I have good enough reasons to back that up. A team as good as the ones that he had should not be winning against lowly NZ and WI by 1-0 margins. A team as good as his should not be losing 4-0 to England and looking like making an encore in Australia. Ganguly, Dravid, and Kumble also had essentially the same teams that Dhoni has had but they have done way better and have attacked way more than Dhoni's teams have. I am not even saying that the teams have changed their personality completely under Dhoni. My argument is that Dhoni as a Test Cap <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dhoni as an ODI cap. And Dhoni as a Test cap < Azza as a Test cap. He doesn't seem to have Test captaining acumen and it is truly surprising because in ODIs he is brilliant, inspirational even. In Tests there is hardly any inspirational captaincy things he has done that can be spoken about except for his novelty period in late 2008. I don't think the team is to blame if their captain goes to them and tells them you guys are not fit enough to defend 599 against NZ on a wearing pitch.

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Make Zak the test capt....and demote Dhoni to Vc.....that way Zak can be our capt whenever he is'not' injured and Dhoni can take over once in a while.
Second that! Zak knows what works best for the bowlers. Besides, if MSD is jaded, it is not a bad idea to let someone with fresh ideas take a crack at the captaincy.

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