Jump to content

For how Long can MSD be the captain due to the TINA factor?


speed_demon

Recommended Posts

^ Humility. We both know that Dhoni did countless things wrong on the tour of England. So lets agree to disagree. PS - Ian's article is dated 10th April 2011. Just saying.
#JustSaying No reason either for Chappell or Ganguly to be humble. They call an ace, an ace and a jackass, a jackass I agree on the highlighted but hindsight is a magic wand. Regarding the article's date, a captain doesn't go on from great to mediocre in 4 months. Also, Ian mentioned a few points 4 months back which came to bit India in the ass during the English tour. It's always good to listen to wise men.
Link to comment
#JustSaying No reason either for Chappell or Ganguly to be humble. They call an ace' date= an ace and a jackass, a jackass
Which means I will not see your presence in a thread criticizing Chappell, who may I add quickly, suggested Tendlya to retire not so long ago. :smile:
I agree on the highlighted but hindsight is a magic wand. Regarding the article's date, a captain doesn't go on from great to mediocre in 4 months. Also, Ian mentioned a few points 4 months back which came to bit India in the ass during the English tour. It's always good to listen to wise men.
Wise men, ex-cricketers commented a lot of Dhoni's tactics in England. Wasn't there a day of the test when around 50-60 runs were scored in the 3rd man region and Dhoni didn't even put a fielder there despite the area being milked for runs by the English batters? Then, he rooted for an RP who was in Canada to join the team, instead of a senior Sreesanth who was there in England for a month, acclimatised and was in better shape than RP. He also, for some strange reason, kept Aaron confined to the dressing room, while Munaf and RP continued to be played around by the English. A strange thing was that Yusuf Pathan, wasn't even considered as one among 4 replacements in the ODI series. Who can forget the great Vinay Kumar, who was literally allowed to walk into the team, as was RP Singh? How about Raina in Tests? Training Ravindra Jadeja for a year, telling barely a few months before the World Cup that he had his confidence, then dropping him and then conveniently picking him back. How can we forget the abdullah deewana in his shaadi - Piyush Chawla. How did he get into the World Cup team over Rav Jadeja, who had been in the team for almost a year and in Dhoni's words, "trained" for the cup? And constantly ignoring Ojha, Uthappa, Dinesh Karthik for whatever good reason the team management has. Dhoni is a very whimsical captain.
Link to comment
Which means I will not see your presence in a thread criticizing Chappell, who may I add quickly, suggested Tendlya to retire not so long ago. :smile: .
Lets be fair here. Tendulkar wasn't doing the best then. Wise men, ex-cricketers commented a lot of Dhoni's tactics in England.
Wasn't there a day of the test when around 50-60 runs were scored in the 3rd man region and Dhoni didn't even put a fielder there despite the area being milked for runs by the English batters?
And I believe the wise men commented on "modern day captains" and didn't target MS Dhoni in particular.
Then, he rooted for an RP who was in Canada to join the team, instead of a senior Sreesanth who was there in England for a month, acclimatised and was in better shape than RP.
Rooting for RP Singh was a mistake but one must be honest enough to think that Sreesanth would have done some magic. We all know how erratic Sreesanth is in ODIs. I fail to remember the last time he has had a great impact in this form of the game.
He also, for some strange reason, kept Aaron confined to the dressing room, while Munaf and RP continued to be played around by the English.
Varun Aaron is a 11-match wonder. Lets keep him at that. Remember Jaidev Unadkat?
A strange thing was that Yusuf Pathan, wasn't even considered as one among 4 replacements in the ODI series.
Probably a mistake but I guess MS Dhoni doesn't select players he can only recommend. We have no idea what may have happened behind doors. Lets not speculate.
Who can forget the great Vinay Kumar, who was literally allowed to walk into the team, as was RP Singh? And who would they be replaced by? How about Raina in Tests?
With the current injuries, even Ganguly could've walked into the team.
Training Ravindra Jadeja for a year, telling barely a few months before the World Cup that he had his confidence, then dropping him and then conveniently picking him back.
Speculation once again.
How can we forget the abdullah deewana in his shaadi - Piyush Chawla. How did he get into the World Cup team over Rav Jadeja, who had been in the team for almost a year and in Dhoni's words, "trained" for the cup?
I agree with your take on Piyush Chawla. You should really check out your facts about Jadeja. On one hand you want Yusuf Pathan on the other hand you want Jadeja.
And constantly ignoring Ojha, Uthappa, Dinesh Karthik for whatever good reason the team management has.
Against Harbhajan, Virat Kohli, Suresh Raina? A team can just have so many members.
Dhoni is a very whimsical captain.
Whimsicality lies in the eyes of the beholder. ;-)
Link to comment
Lets be fair here. Tendulkar wasn't doing the best then. Wise men, ex-cricketers commented a lot of Dhoni's tactics in England. And I believe the wise men commented on "modern day captains" and didn't target MS Dhoni in particular.
So its fine to conveniently listen to wise men when they are talking good about Dhoni and then it is fine to conveniently ignore them when they aren't talking something we agree with?
Rooting for RP Singh was a mistake but one must be honest enough to think that Sreesanth would have done some magic. We all know how erratic Sreesanth is in ODIs. I fail to remember the last time he has had a great impact in this form of the game.
I fail to remember the last time RP Singh had a great impact in any form of the game.
Varun Aaron is a 11-match wonder. Lets keep him at that. Remember Jaidev Unadkat?
Aaron came off a fantastic EPT. Weak argument from you here.
Probably a mistake but I guess MS Dhoni doesn't select players he can only recommend. We have no idea what may have happened behind doors. Lets not speculate.
Dhoni once offered to resign from captaincy if he didn't have RP Singh for a particular series.
With the current injuries' date=' even Ganguly could've walked into the team. [/quote'] If Ganguly could have, why not Aaron? You seem to be good looking for stuff on cricinfo. Why don't you look it up there and share it with us. It details Dhoni's roadmap for the World Cup and he shows full faith and confidence in Ravi making it to the squad. Eh? As far as my facts on Jadeja go, point out which fact goes in Ashwin's favour? The fact that he plays for you know who?
Link to comment
So its fine to conveniently listen to wise men when they are talking good about Dhoni and then it is fine to conveniently ignore them when they aren't talking something we agree with?
No mate, it is *always* good to listen to them irrespective of whom or regardless of the opinion I am talking about. Even in the Tendulkar case, he wasn't doing good back then. Probably Ian felt he was over but when he reinvented himself Ian was the first one to praise Sachin.
I fail to remember the last time RP Singh had a great impact in any form of the game.
The last time he really did well was in ICC T20WC and India tour of England 2007. He tapered off after that. As I said earlier too, picking RP Singh in the 11 was definitely an error of judgment on Dhoni's part IMHO. However, his selection for the tour should be directed to selectors.
Aaron came off a fantastic EPT. Weak argument from you here.
Unfortunately, that's not enough. With due respect to the EPT, people who succeed in FC are more likely to do so at the international level. Ganguly, Dravid, Laxman are examples.
Dhoni once offered to resign from captaincy if he didn't have RP Singh for a particular series.
In context mate, in context.
You seem to be good looking for stuff on cricinfo. Why don't you look it up there and share it with us. It details Dhoni's roadmap for the World Cup and he shows full faith and confidence in Ravi making it to the squad.
I am really bad at searching stuff on Cricinfo. Check out the games Jadeja played in the 8-10 months leading to the WC. You will get your answer.
Again, you've made a weak arguement. Ojha is not competing with Harbhajan. He is competing with Mishra in Tests and Ashwin in ODIs. As for Virat, if we talk about ODIs, he deserves his spot. But Raina in Tests??? Over KKD, Virat and Rohit Sharma? Like you said, anyone could've walked into the team.
Rohit Sharma in Tests? Virat will get his due. Raina is more experienced than Virat. Remember you are talking about the same Dhoni who *dropped* Raina for Pujara. I am not sure if there's any point in harping over selection issues by Dhoni. He has won the World Cup and there must be some thought process behind it. Also, selections would make no sense if the players don't perform. You have also chosen to ignore Dhoni's performance in Test matches. It was pathetic and the whole team's batting was. Credit where it's due and the boot where necessary. No point discussing selection issues because the same set of people arguing for certain players would argue against the very same players if things went wrong. As said earlier, hindsight is a magic wand.
Link to comment

Ganguly fans have little credibility when they talk about Dhoni , so would ignore them on this topic ..but for some one who said his captaincy was good today , yeah may be but it wasn't different in England either ..just that some times things don't work ... whole team looked disinterested in England ..infact I don't ever remember giving up on the team so early in the series ...you just knew we where going to lose that series no matter what... When the likes of vvs and Tendulkar play such irresponsible cricket , there isn't much a captain could do . Indian cricket has seen highs which we where never close to before , this team under Dhoni has given us more good days than bad ones ...he's the best thing to have happened to Indian cricket in recent years .

Link to comment

An important point to remember when discussing any captain is the following: A captain is ONLY as good as his team. The best thing a captain can do is to keep the team together during tough times and bring out the best in his players during good times. Tactics are overrated IMHO and certain tactics might come out and make a captain look brilliant but at the end of the day it's all about executing pre-made plans and making minor adjustments once things don't go as planned on the field. Dhoni has done what only 1 other captain has achieved for India and that is win us the world cup and for that he will be rated in the top echelon of Indian captains regardless of what he does from here on in.

Link to comment

:headshake:many will disagree with me....but d fat is dhoni is not an agressive captain, just not in england tour but from 2009 particularly when india lost 2-4 2 aus in odi series, his captaincy , particularly field place, rotating bowlers, playing **** players have all been atrocious......he has has a certain like for trundlers, he`s not brave as captain, his field placing was horrible in england, his post match comments r so poor nd unbelievably farce..........he has won 4-0 at home against d poms, but can one forget the painful nd horrible series in england, our team was compared 2 donkeys, his own batting is very poor intests....its all falling in abroad series............i dont think dhoni is dominant captain as mayb he was b4 2009.....i also know he wont step down, but i kinda dont praise his captaincy

Link to comment
Ganguly fans have little credibility when they talk about Dhoni ' date=' so would ignore them on this topic ..but for some one who said his captaincy was good today , yeah may be but it wasn't different in England either ..just that some times things don't work ... whole team looked disinterested in England ..infact I don't ever remember giving up on the team so early in the series ...you just knew we where going to lose that series no matter what... When the likes of vvs and Tendulkar play such irresponsible cricket , there isn't much a captain could do . Indian cricket has seen highs which we where never close to before , this team under Dhoni has given us more good days than bad ones ...he's the best thing to have happened to Indian cricket in recent years .[/quote'] So the credit of the recent good times go completely to dhoni but any defeat suddenly becomes the team and seniors fault? Dhoni would be the first one to admit that that the teams high were all due to team work
Link to comment

For how Long can MSD be the captain due to the TINA factor? Another wrist slitting thread. With MSD suffering regular bouts of brain freezes as shown in his asinine field placements (more so in the last 12 months) MSD's captaincy looks to have run its course. With a 4-0 whitewash again looking a real possibility, we are inching closer to the need of a fresh approach especially with the team set to enter ts rebuilding phase. In the past, every time there has been talk about MSD being removed as skipper, the point of "there is no alternative" (TINA) is raised. Even now, the potential captains Gambhir, Sehwag, Kohli are all struggling themselves. For how long will MSD be able to retain his job due to this? Or will he get a lifeline as we do not play a test series for next 6-7 months? .

Link to comment

Dhoni is a great ODI and T20 captain.. yes he sux as a Test Captain because he doesn't seem to understand the value of putting pressure on the opposition batsmen by having a tight field. Dravid is probably the best option.. I know he is already 38.. but 40 is the new 32.. and I think he still has probably about 3 more years of play left in him. By then I am hoping Gambhir will grow some balls or perhaps Raina will be matured enough to captain.

Link to comment

How exactly u expect Dhoni to attack when our batsmen score 190 on a 400 + wicket.Asu are scoring with ease against new ball.If he had attacked with old ball as some genius here want they would have already reached 600 plus total. As long as our batsmen bat pathetically we cant put pressure with attacking fields.And even if we set attacking fields apart from Kohli no one else is exactly agile enough to cut off quick singles.Aus batsmen will take quick singles all day long. Clarke mostly set similar fields too.The only difference is our great batsmen cant run quick singles to save their life. Sachin Sehwag Laxman Gambhir have combinedly scored single hundred in last 14 innings home and away.They are the ones to be dropped.We shouldnt even be discussing about dropping bowlers or Dhoni when our senior batsmen continue to bat pathetically. I dont mind Dhoni being sacked as captain but some of the suggestions like Gambhir Sachin and Sehwag are laughable.Trying to blame everything else when batting by our seniors is the sole reason for demise is laughable.We did the same by excusing the batting by putting all the blame on bowlers and BCCI in Eng tour.And exactly doing the same again. The only guy who should be considered as an alternative to Dhoni is Zaheer if he can prove his fitness.Otherwise Dhoni is our best option whose place in the team is not questioned

Link to comment

He just needs to be a little more aggressive and trust his bowlers to pick 20 wickets, and somehow he needs to be charged up and proactive all the time. The coolness that looked so cool when the team was performing has just started to transform into complacency with every loss.

Link to comment
If Dhoni has even litte bit of self respect left in him after two disastrous overseas tours then he must resign at the end of the current series .
He should but he won't. Has too many endorsements, ads and promotions which are dependent on him being captain. He has no self respect as has sold his soul to the corporate world.
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...