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Germany criciticizes US - Saudi Arms Deal worth 20 Billion Dollar !


kumble_rocks

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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=azRneOXX7PAU&refer=germany And trust the usual suspects here to defend this arms deal in the name of protecting their self interest. And trust Dada_Rocks NEVER to start threads like this ! After all he and others here are not really interested in the REAL fight against terrorism. BTW , I completely agree with German position. July 30 (Bloomberg) -- Germany's ruling Social Democratic Party said President George W. Bush's plan to sell arms to Saudi Arabia and five other states in the Gulf is misguided and myopic. Bush ``is obviously gifted in the way that he always picks exactly the wrong approach in foreign policy and security matters,'' Hubertus Heil, general secretary of the Social Democrats, which is in coalition with Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats, told a news conference in Berlin today. ``It's short-sighted and irresponsible'' to distribute weapons in the Gulf region. The Bush administration wants to ask Congress this week to approve an arms-sale package to Saudi Arabia and five other Gulf countries that may total more than $20 billion. The U.S. is also planning a new 10-year military aid package to Israel and Egypt as it seeks support in containing Iran's nuclear ambitions and for its new push for an Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement. Instead of ``stoking an arms race'' by delivering weapons to ``unstable powers,'' Bush should help find political solutions in the Middle East, Heil said. A report by the Iraq Study Group of former U.S. Secretary of State James Baker and former Representative Lee Hamilton ``offers a glut of proposals'' to promote disarmament in the Gulf region, Heil said. The U.S. military assistance would provide $30 billion to Israel and $13 billion to Egypt, said Rebecca Goodrich-Hinton, a Defense Department spokeswoman on July 28. Besides Saudi-Arabia, the countries which would receive U.S. arms are the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and Oman. Anti-War Gerhard Schroeder, Merkel's predecessor and a Social Democrat, in 2002 dismissed Bush's plans to attack Iraq as ``adventures.'' Playing on Germans' distaste for war, Schroeder only won re-election that year by opposing the invasion and pledging to keep his country out of it. Merkel's Christian Democratic Union shares the Social Democrats' misgivings about Bush's plans. Ruprecht Polenz, the party's foreign affairs spokesman in the German Parliament, likened the Middle East to a ``powder keg,'' saying steps to foster arms sales ``increase the risk and makes the region more insecure,'' according to the Frankfurter Rundschau newspaper. Germany, current holder of the Group of Eight industrialized nations' presidency, has not been informed by the U.S. about possible arms sales to the Gulf region, Foreign Ministry spokesman Martin Jaeger told a regular Berlin press briefing today. In any case, stability in the Middle East ``should be sought by political means,'' Jaeger said. To contact the reporter on this story: Andreas Cremer in Berlin at acremer@bloomberg.net .
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20 billion dollar arms worth!! Man these Saudis are one stupid lot. They keep buying these arms which they anyway are not good enough to use. Expect another 40 billion dollars grant to Israel as well! Wait that is already there. Israel gets 30 billion worth and Egypt 13 billion. And then the same effing country - read USA - shall go to Iran and ask to not embark on arm's race! Yeah sure whatever you say Uncle Sam. xxx

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They keep buying these arms which they anyway are not good enough to use.
Err...second hand American arms are good enough to whack anyone except Israel,India,China and Russia.
Yeah sure whatever you say Uncle Sam.
Precisely. America is escalating the tension- giving iran a reasonable excuse to continue their nuclear program and embark on an arms-race. But hey, what else do you expect from that nation ? first and only nation to use a WMD on civillian population, first nation to categorically LIE about Pearl harbour, used its own citizens as labrats (that too, without consent) in syphilis experiments, toppled democracy in Iran, Nicaragua,chile, etc, replacing them with pro-American dictators (so much for their BS about spreading democracy !), blatantly lying to start a war with Iraq only to bail out its defence industry and then stole 20 billion dollars of Iraq's money, etc etc etc. That nation has it comming and has it comming good....and if i am alive to see it, i shall rejoice indeed at the fall of yet another despotic Roman Empire.
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This is groundwork preparation by Unkil to attack Iran. And what else...all wrong people are being armed to achieve this. Typical Amreeka Bahadur. I am surprised western media hardly highlights the fact that "House of Saud' are the foundation of Radical Wahhabism cult. There is already a war going on between Wahhabi Saudi insurgents and ayatollahian Iran. But USA balatantly ignores the insurgency supported by Saudis. Sunni extremists from Saudi Arabia make up half the foreign fighters in Iraq, many suicide bombers http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-saudi15jul15,0,3132262.story?coll=la-home-center

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Err...second hand American arms are good enough to whack anyone except Israel' date='India,China and Russia.[/quote'] The Arms are good, its the Saudis that are hopeless. It all boils down to how much ball$ a country has. I don't mean any disrespect to Saudis but whats the point of having the latest arms when you do not have the ball$ to use them in a fight? xxx
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This is groundwork preparation by Unkil to attack Iran. And what else...all wrong people are being armed to achieve this. Typical Amreeka Bahadur. I am surprised western media hardly highlights the fact that "House of Saud' are the foundation of Radical Wahhabism cult. There is already a war going on between Wahhabi Saudi insurgents and ayatollahian Iran. But USA balatantly ignores the insurgency supported by Saudis. Sunni extremists from Saudi Arabia make up half the foreign fighters in Iraq, many suicide bombers http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-saudi15jul15,0,3132262.story?coll=la-home-center
Forgot western media. Try to get some posters here ( I am sure you know who they are) to agree on US wrongdoings and you will get a deafening silence !
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Its not a question of balls but training. And don't take the bait and name names- its the common MO of the dadagiri ego-trippin moderator to coax you into naming names, then throw a hissy fit for 'abuse' and then ban you.

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I think some posters here are suffering from Head in the Sand Syndrome. They will never criticize this kind of terrorist funding and trust them to come out with all guns blazing if a Muslim indulges in wrong doing.
Not defeaning silence- you will get loud clamouring of admiring America for 'defending itself'. Sort of the mentality that a common pickpocket has towards the Don of the city- nothing but admiration.
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Forgot western media. Try to get some posters here ( I am sure you know who they are) to agree on US wrongdoings and you will get a deafening silence !
I don't care what some NRI will think. But living in India and from Indian interest, I will always support Iran over Saudi Arabia. reason is simple --- Iranians if liberated from Ayatollahian regime of President Ahmedine-Nuttjob are much better than Wahhabi Saudi who actively support Pakis during any war---mainly through funds. IMHO-- Iranian citizens are more moderate than those Saudi wahhabi nuts. And for India to keep a leverage over Pakis baluchistan we need Iran's co-operation. It's simple Shia-Sunni mathematics and how a Chanakyan Hindu can benefit from this.
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Guest dada_rocks

GOOD KR that u have started a thread on this.. Maine har topic shuru karne ka theka nahin le rakha hai.. Now let us see what exactly are we protesting here (1) Saudi's morality to go for arms on being perceptibly threatened by iran's burgeoning arms clout. We too do arms deal often on perception of threat (2) USA's morality over selling those weapons to a rogue state in our view... Again bulk of 9/11 bombers may have been from saudi but saudi govt is in line with usa so we may call them rogue which they are but for usa it's one of the relatively friendly nation. BTW even we have all lovey dovery relationship with them. I am sure national interest dictates these things (3) Are we protesting the arms spread in general PS: Rest assured go check the arms deal when it;s done and see how americans even after selling control all the buttons of actual firing of the weapon. Was reading through the F-16 deal done for Pakistan other day. Trust me these guys get no firing power of the sadid weapon even after buying ,unless uncle sam nods.

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Its not a question of balls but training. And don't take the bait and name names- its the common MO of the dadagiri ego-trippin moderator to coax you into naming names' date= then throw a hissy fit for 'abuse' and then ban you.
If it is indeed the case of training then Saudis(the establishment mind you, not the people) are even stupider than I thought. I mean come on what country/company/establishment spends so much on weapons without training the people who are going to use it? Are these weapons supposed to shoot themselves? xxx
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IMHO-- Iranian citizens are more moderate than those Saudi wahhabi nuts.
Correct. There are a few Saudis here- they still treat their women as cattle while iranians are far more moderate and the ONLY muslim-majority nation to look favourably towards India from a historic perspective. I'd say that Iranians in Vancouver are significantly more moderate than Indian Punjabis/Sikhs in their attitude towards life, fun,sex,individuality, etc etc. Its rather ironic when the culture-less and semi-barbarians of Arabia look down upon India as 'savage godless land of idol-worshippers' while the FAR more culturally and philosophically developed iran looks towards India with nothing more than respect and recognition of our stature throughout history. Iran maybe muslim but they still havn't forgotten their roots in India.
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If it is indeed the case of training then Saudis(the establishment mind you, not the people) are even stupider than I thought.
That, they are. Their military tactics still revolves around the basic 'charge the line' mentality of the medieval times.
I mean come on what country/company/establishment spends so much on weapons without training the people who are going to use it?
What is even more hillarious is that Saudi has excellent air superiority capabilities but has no navy to speak of. What nation develops such a lop-sided military despite having the most strategically placed naval geography in entire Asia after India ?( it is the ONLY country to have coastline in both sides of the arabian peninsula, it dominates the Red sea coast through which a humongous amount of naval shipping passes and israel's lifeline to rest of Asia rests on, not to mention, its strategic position in the gulf of Persia is second only to Iran- yet, Saudi navy has a few gunboats and thats it). Plus there is no air-power in the region save israel and both Israel and Saudi are in America's pocket, thus taking Israel out of the planning equation. Only other nation in the vicinity that can match/better Saudi air power is India and we'd mow them down with our far superior naval capabilities. So basically a nation that needs a strong navy has a few tiny puttering gunboats and a huge and powerful air fleet that it doesnt need. Go figure ! ( actually it isn't hard to figure- Saudis buy weapons much like the rest of the gulf country just for chest-thumping stakes and giving in to American pressure since America would go bankrupt if it stopped selling weapons- over 2 million people in the US would lose their jobs if america stopped pushing its weapons and escalating an arms-race).
Are these weapons supposed to shoot themselves?
Thats what they think and assume. Saudi pilots for example have very little training in dogfighting because they are armed with American equipment and A2A missiles of the US are BVR (beyond visual range) in its firing capability. So what do the saudis do ? they take out the only cannon in the plane to put in some excess fuel and rest on 'we spot enemy on radar, we fire from radar, we turn around and run away' philosophy. Go figure!
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Some more comparisons of Saudi with Iran from Indian interests POV. -- (1) Saudi actively funded Paki nuclear programme to help secure "Sunni Islamic Bomb". (2) Pukes are the closests ally of Saudi since the time of previous Saudi Monarchs. Pakistan has named it's one city as "Faisalabad" to honor King Faisal from "House of Saud". (3) Saudi is the main ideologue behind Wahhabism which inspires Taleban, AQ and our own version of AQs like LeT and Jaish-e-mohammed. (4) Saudi tries to fund Indian "deobandi" school of Islamists to bring them under their Wahhabism fold. On Contrary -- (1) Iran provides Indian embassy a safe place to operate for R & AW to keep a leverage over Paki supported terrorists in Kashmir by tightening the noose in Balochistan. So India should never abondon it's relation with Iran in favor of Amreeka bahadur. We need America but we need Iran as well for looooong term interests.

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Guest dada_rocks
Magar Apne tho har topic shuru karne ka theka lekha rakha hai jahain pe Muslim kuch galat kartha hai.
That's one topic and another is communazi crime. Not everyoine can be passionate about everythign under the sun why the heck u don't get this little fact. I have made this clear little too often but u don't seem to be getitng it. Have I ever asked u to volunteer on those topics, I guess not.
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well said sandtest. It may not be common knowledge but Iran is also talking to/negotiating with India about Indian Navy establishing a base in bandar-Abbas. Just look up Bandar-Abbas on google and see how bloody strategic that town is- Amrikka would kill to establish a base there and Iran is offering it to us for $$.

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Guest dada_rocks
Correct. There are a few Saudis here- they still treat their women as cattle while iranians are far more moderate and the ONLY muslim-majority nation to look favourably towards India from a historic perspective. I'd say that Iranians in Vancouver are significantly more moderate than Indian Punjabis/Sikhs in their attitude towards life, fun,sex,individuality, etc etc. Its rather ironic when the culture-less and semi-barbarians of Arabia look down upon India as 'savage godless land of idol-worshippers' while the FAR more culturally and philosophically developed iran looks towards India with nothing more than respect and recognition of our stature throughout history. Iran maybe muslim but they still havn't forgotten their roots in India.
See in case of iranians west does very minuter filtering and only the best manage to come out whereas saudi being in american camp all tom dick and hary land here and u get to see the real saudi picture. Iranian picture IMHO is skewed in postive way.
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