The Outsider Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 The conditions weren't ideal for it on this tour nor the one to South Africa but the last tests in both countries and our inability to bowl the opposition out pointed to the one missing component in the Indian bowling attack - reverse swing. Both at the Oval and Cape Town, the conditions were good for reverse swing and with that aspect added on the Indian bowling attack will be one of the most versatile and best in international cricket. Munaf Patel must come back to the bowler he was. He is the missing cog in the attack to make it lethal. I am not talking about the geriatric old man who played at Cape Town but the man who demolished England in his first test. Link to comment
apocalypse Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 He now concentrates more on line and length rather than speed and swing Link to comment
The Outsider Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 He now concentrates more on line and length rather than speed and swing Which is okay for ODIs but line and length at 120 kmph never made anyone a successful test cricketer. Link to comment
Ram Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Lillee recently said he saw Munaf bowling at the MRF academy and Munaf had told him he was bowling at 75% pace and that itself seemed pretty quick to him. To be considered quick, Munaf must get 4 out 6 balls in a over , above 140 clicks. Link to comment
Predator_05 Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 The English bowlers conquered Australia in the 2005 Ashes with reverse swing. Notice how they haven't been as dominant once their best reverse swing bowler - Jones - dropped out with injury. Flintoff could do it too, but his form declined a bit and this was reflected in England's results. Link to comment
King Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Good point Shwetabh. The outfield in the last test match in particular had so much abrasion the ball would have taken some damage which helps in reverse swing. The first couple of tests were not conducive for reverse swing as you need dry conditions to keep one side of the ball rough and also pitch/outfield should be void of too much grass to assist reverse swing. There was fair bit of overcast in the first couple of tests and the wet conditions wouldn't have helped maintain the ball. The last test certainly was good for reverse swing. Perhaps Indian bowlers never really explored that at all as they were getting decent conventional swing? From what I know Zaheer can reverse it and if he didn't find much reverse swing I would expect the rest to find it. Link to comment
gator Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 to get good reverse swing, u got to clock atleast over something like 138kph..... tht is the reason, none of our pacers or the current english ones could get reverse swing going.... also the reason why Waqar after 2000s couldnt get as much reverse swing.... Link to comment
Chandan Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 From what I know Zaheer can reverse it and if he didn't find much reverse swing I would expect the rest to find it. Zaheer was not fully fit in the last inning. And gator our bowlers clocked 142, 143 kph in this series, do you know? Yes, their average speed was 135 or there abouts but there were plenty of deliveries over 140 from all the three bowlers. RP Singh certainly surprised me here by being the quickest of the three in average speed. Why do our bowlers not bowl yorkers?? Link to comment
King Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 to get good reverse swing' date=' u got to clock atleast over something like 138kph..... tht is the reason, none of our pacers or the current english ones could get reverse swing going.... also the reason why Waqar after 2000s couldnt get as much reverse swing....[/quote'] Speed is not a criteria Gator, you can reverse it even if you aren't quick. Link to comment
The Outsider Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 Why do our bowlers not bowl yorkers?? Yorkers are really difficult to bowl. Being an off spin bowler, I asked one my fellow speedsters why those guys don't bowl more yorkers and gave me the reasoning that they are hard to bowl and control and challenged me to bowl 6 consecutive yorker length deliveries at my full speed. My arm felt like coming off after 8-10 attempts and I did not hit a single yorker length in those attempts. Remember the yorker length is basically 4-6 inches. Link to comment
gator Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Speed is not a criteria Gator' date=' you can reverse it even if you aren't quick.[/quote'] I remember watching an Akram interview where he mentioned tht you had to bowl over 140ish to get that late reverse swing... Link to comment
The Outsider Posted August 15, 2007 Author Share Posted August 15, 2007 Speed is not a criteria Gator' date=' you can reverse it even if you aren't quick.[/quote'] True Ravi, you can reverse but since reverse happens very late in the flight it's effective only when it's quick. Link to comment
Ram Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I remember watching an Akram interview where he mentioned tht you had to bowl over 140ish to get that late reverse swing... Surely not 140+. I have seen Ponting , with his medium pace, reverse swing the ball a mile. But yes, reverse swing is at its deadliest when its pacy. Link to comment
gator Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Surely not 140+. I have seen Ponting ' date=' with his medium pace, reverse swing the ball a mile. But yes, reverse swing is at its deadliest when its pacy.[/quote'] marirs, how r u sure, it is reverse swing.... could u tell me whicih match was tht? surely if punter can do it, Zak definitely will.... Link to comment
Ram Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 marirs, how r u sure, it is reverse swing.... could u tell me whicih match was tht? surely if punter can do it, Zak definitely will.... Was actually the Kolakata match Gats. There was this HUGE lbw shout against Laxman from the bowling of Ponting. The ball swung a mile from outside off-stump. The umpire though , gave it not out. Link to comment
gator Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 reverse swing is a very late swing and it can only happen at higher speeds.... tht is one of the reason munaf was bowling reverse swinger in his initial days when he was clocking 140s easily.... another thing is, a lovely swinger of the ball like irfan pathan could never get reverse swing since his debut series in australia where he was clocking 138kph+.... it is a fact and it has been acknowledged by even Wasim Akram... Link to comment
gator Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Was actually the Kolakata match Gats. There was this HUGE lbw shout against Laxman from the bowling of Ponting. The ball swung a mile from outside off-stump. The umpire though ' date=' gave it not out.[/quote'] would have been conventional swing.... Link to comment
Ram Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 But Gats , i would like to see it this way. Reverse swing is not so much a pace-based phenomenon, but a condition of the ball and the rotations on it based one What makes reverse swing deadly is , if its late. If a ball is quick and is delivered with higher velocity and momentum , it would travel on its original intended path ( that is straight) for longer , more distance , before the reverse swing takes effect. By that time , the ball would have almost covered the length of the pitch. that is why we feel , the swing happens late , making it harder for the batsman to adjust. Essentially , in the first part of flight of the ball , its initial velocity and momentum overrides the reverse swing effect, while in the last part , the reverse swing takes control. Link to comment
Ram Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 would have been conventional swing.... Wasnt the new ball Gats. the ball was pretty old by then. Link to comment
Chandan Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Wasnt the new ball Gats. the ball was pretty old by then. That is what I thought.Why would Ponting bowl with the new ball? And you just can't get conventional swing with the old SG ball. Link to comment
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