Guest dada_rocks Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Yes it's from Arun Shourie and when he speaks liske/dislike notwithstanding u listen .. It appears UPA adminstration roshankhayali mein ji rahe hain regarding perpetual supply of nuclear in fuel in the event of nuclea-device test by india.. anyway must read.. it summarizes all the salinet points of hyde-act and 123 act............. http://www.indianexpress.com/story/210944.html http://www.indianexpress.com/story/210846.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 who gives a flying frack? i dont want us testing any more nuclear weapons. every time we conduct such a test we get hit by sanctions and the market loses confidence, going into a nose dive. its just a chauvanistic desire to conduct nuclear tests. right now, we need to avoid any display of hostility that might scare away foreign investment and economic growth. if anything i say, lets renounce all nuclear weapons. our only enemy at the moment is internal instability. neither china, nor pakistan are interested in an all out war, and even if such a conflict emmerges, the likelihood of us or them using nukes is next to null. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 It's not about what u or I want. Of course it doesn't look like we will nedd to do further test but who has seen the future and mreover it's matter of soveregin option. Moreover poist is PM is misleading the nation by saying in the existing state these acts give India full rights to go for test and all USA wil do is stop supply of nuclear fuel from usa whereas the rest fo the coutnries will be free to continue the fuel supply. That's the plain lie..... Aur han treaties are not done with just present needs in mind it has to take care all hue of eventualities of future too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 There is no way US is going to cut off any nuclear supplies to India once their industry has billions of dollars invested in nuclear technology in India. Moreover, India is also free to conduct tests in response to tests conducted by Pakistan or China without any repercussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 who gives a flying frack? i dont want us testing any more nuclear weapons. every time we conduct such a test we get hit by sanctions and the market loses confidence, going into a nose dive. its just a chauvanistic desire to conduct nuclear tests. right now, we need to avoid any display of hostility that might scare away foreign investment and economic growth. if anything i say, lets renounce all nuclear weapons. our only enemy at the moment is internal instability. neither china, nor pakistan are interested in an all out war, and even if such a conflict emmerges, the likelihood of us or them using nukes is next to null. India will do one more round of nuclear testing , atleast. I think we have tested only the fission device so far. We need to test out the fusion device too , and also some smart nucear weapons. I think we will do one more series of tests and if they are successful , sign the CTBT. And disagree with you when you say market will nosedive if we do nuclear testing. But for nuclear weapons ,we would have surely seen a war between India and Pakistan in 2001. Nuclear weapons are as much a instrument of peace , as it is to war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I too have that feeling if not today sometime in future .. but that's not the point point is parliament being lied to for the betetr part of this draam congress didn't put 123 pact details on the table and after coming to near end they are claiming we have gone too far to think about re-negotiation...... It's not like we have not suffered due to this kind of pact in past, there is already a precedence of tarapur but still we are putting ou faith in word-play as opposed to same promises being ratified in the deal document.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I still really dont understand what the all the fuss this deal has created is about. We have to open ONLY civilian reactors to international safeguards. Our military facilities will not be subjected to checks. This is a win-win deal for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 India will do one more round of nuclear testing , atleast. I think we have tested only the fission device so far. We need to test out the fusion device too , and also some smart nucear weapons. I think we will do one more series of tests and if they are successful , sign the CTBT. And disagree with you when you say market will nosedive if we do nuclear testing. But for nuclear weapons ,we would have surely seen a war between India and Pakistan in 2001. Nuclear weapons are as much a instrument of peace , as it is to war. we have no fusion device. wont have one either. atleast not for another 25-30 years since our nuclear program is not weapons oriented. anyways, i do feel there is merit to what another poster said: once american industry is profiting from sale of nuclear fissile material to india, the likelihood of the supply being interrupted at the expense of those billions is low. but that is not what i am trying to say guys, i am questioning the entire rationale of testing nukes. we have a kickass economic growth going... why jeapordize that, scare away investors and invite sanctions for testing a weapon that has no strategic or tactical value in today's world? a world where the enemy is small, often indegineous and the product of social imbalance and unemployment and not as it used to be earlier, i.e. complete nation states at war with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feverpitch Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Yes it's from Arun Shourie and when he speaks liske/dislike notwithstanding u listen .. It appears UPA adminstration roshankhayali mein ji rahe hain regarding perpetual supply of nuclear in fuel in the event of nuclea-device test by india.. anyway must read.. it summarizes all the salinet points of hyde-act and 123 act............. http://www.indianexpress.com/story/210944.html http://www.indianexpress.com/story/210846.html What's the point, Mr Shourie. When your party indulged in the nookelear brinkmanship in 1998, in one fell sweep, we lost the moral authority over the world, the conventional weapons advantage over Pakistan and later due to your own govt's voluntary declaration of moratorium on tests, the independence to choose a foreign or domestic policy path. Not that I support any deal with the US on such a sensitive issue, esp a deal that we will have no right to amend later on, but US sarkar will, and one that makes us dependent on the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I still really dont understand what the all the fuss this deal has created is about. We have to open ONLY civilian reactors to international safeguards. Our military facilities will not be subjected to checks. This is a win-win deal for both sides.] its the Left Front, usually i admire them for their adherence to the formulative principles of marxism (they actually appear to be party with a desernable manifesto), but they are also too deeply married to the principle of "self sufficiency" and complete indegineous manufacturing. both of which have been proven to be less than productive approaches in contemporary economies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 we have no fusion device. wont have one either. atleast not for another 25-30 years since our nuclear program is not weapons oriented. anyways, i do feel there is merit to what another poster said: once american industry is profiting from sale of nuclear fissile material to india, the likelihood of the supply being interrupted at the expense of those billions is low. but that is not what i am trying to say guys, i am questioning the entire rationale of testing nukes. we have a kickass economic growth going... why jeapordize that, scare away investors and invite sanctions for testing a weapon that has no strategic or tactical value in today's world? a world where the enemy is small, often indegineous and the product of social imbalance and unemployment and not as it used to be earlier, i.e. complete nation states at war with each other. No THX , i am pretty sure we either have or are in the process of getting a fusion device. Read this for further details - http://www.inesap.org/bulletin16/bul16art02.htm And coming to the last part of your post regarding economy , India's average GDP growth rate from 1990-99 was 5.1 %. From 1999-2007 , it has been 6.9% See the link ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Focus should be on economic growth no doubt and it's not likely that India is going to conduct a test in the near future. There is no point of doing that as Pakistan is already in self destruct mode. The point being made is one of relinquishing the right to conduct future tests at the behest of some other country, which might appear to be the case at a superficial level but for all practical purposes India would be free to do whatever it wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Regarding a fusion bomb, I think India claimed to have tested one in '98 but there were serious doubts on whether it was successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 I think we should not become US ka kuta. Our defence needs are very important... but yes India's main priority should definitely be (in no particular order)- a) Population control b) Education c) Economy d) Law and Order e) Anti-corruption drive....etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Regarding a fusion bomb' date=' I think India claimed to have tested one in '98 but there were serious doubts on whether it was successful.[/quote'] Yes , I should have mentioned that before. We did test in 98 itself , but the yield wasnt as expected , as confirmed by independent sources. And we HAVE to have smart nuclear weapons, surely. something that destroys a certain diameter of radius of area. I am SURE we will test again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 There has also been a serious misunderstanding about the nature of government. India’s ambassador to Washington, an extremely capable diplomat, Ronen Sen, says that he has been privately assured that Washington will not react excessively if India uses the option to test. Alas, nations last longer than individuals. The life of this deal is estimated at around forty years. Ronen Sen will not be ambassador that long. Bush will not be President after January 2009. What matters is the law of the land and the written record. The law of America, by which every President is bound, is called the Hyde Act. It will prevail when a Democrat takes the White House from the Republicans. India’s national interest cannot be compromised on the strength of a private assurance. It is astonishing that a senior diplomat should make such a statement, when American negotiators and spokesmen have insisted that the law of their land will determine the course of their actions in any dispute. It is astounding that a government should accept this as some form of guarantee. --------------- Words of M J akbar another illustrious journalist ur like/dislike notwithstanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 What's the point, Mr Shourie. When your party indulged in the nookelear brinkmanship in 1998, in one fell sweep, we lost the moral authority over the world, the conventional weapons advantage over Pakistan and later due to your own govt's voluntary declaration of moratorium on tests, the independence to choose a foreign or domestic policy path. Not that I support any deal with the US on such a sensitive issue, esp a deal that we will have no right to amend later on, but US sarkar will, and one that makes us dependent on the US. Ur sentiments are ridiculous on many counts. first just because nuclear weapon status was not i the opne doesn't mean it was nto there.. and the very fact that within a week pakistan successfully did its own test confirms that. If anything that test made the status of both states out in opne and both nations have to keep that factor in mind while launchign any agression in near future.. There is no need to second-guess what other could do. To me this is positive development. I don't know how u come up with conclusion that voluntary moratorium made us lose our sovereignty on foreign polciies.. Yes deal has some big snag which has nothing to do with development of 98... What govt is assuring by verbal words could very well have been put in writing in the 123 act or hyde act.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Congress is not being crystal clear. It's like they are trying to impress USA or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Congress is not being crystal clear. It's like they are trying to impress USA or something. Precisely they have kept prolonged tap on the document and now after release when people are pointing towards the snag ;they are claiming it's too late to renegotiate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THX_1138 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 No THX , i am pretty sure we either have or are in the process of getting a fusion device. Read this for further details - http://www.inesap.org/bulletin16/bul16art02.htm And coming to the last part of your post regarding economy , India's average GDP growth rate from 1990-99 was 5.1 %. From 1999-2007 , it has been 6.9% See the link ? sriram that link does not state that we have a working fusion bomb. if anything it suggests that our may 1998 tests were a fiasco rather than a success. but that not withstanding, can you ignore that our economy currently is growing at a rather healthy rate and it would be a grotesque misadventure to try and jeapordize it by conducting a nuclear tests (since you have listed the GDP growth rates, it would behoove you to examine the amount of foreign investment we have seen on an average for every fiscal year over the past 17 years since we underwent deregulation and globalization, and i am sure you will notice that the number is much higher for the past four-five years as ever before in the past. i would post the numbers here myself but i dont have any reliable source to quote them from). everything set aside, ask yourself, wont our economy suffer a setback if we conduct a test that can be at the very best described as frivilious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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