Jump to content

Shouldn't Dhoni also resign as test captain ?


Recommended Posts

cant see how?wen Dhoni was given the job everybody was also like wat a pathetic decision.but he delivered.how do we know without giving somebody else a chance
Who said it was a pathetic decision? It was the best decision at that time and Dhoni was the best person to do that.
Link to comment
Works other way also - How can we know Dhoni will fail in the future without giving in another chance? Questions like these are entirely perspective based - glass half-empty' date=' half-full. No point in arguing over it, if you have a better option name him else :secret:[/quote'] Dhoni has already failed spectacularly.why do we need to give him another chance? as for option,Kohli is one.let him take over,why do we need him to play certain tests to be eligible?give him the responsibility.Gambhir is another one.struggling batting but proven performer.has expressed his desire to lead too.maybe captaincy will give him the boost he needs
Link to comment
Who said it was a pathetic decision? It was the best decision at that time and Dhoni was the best person to do that.
he was given the ODI n T20 job over a performing Yuvraj,also due to him being WK it was said it'd be too much for him.I clearly remember that
Link to comment
Dhoni has already failed spectacularly.why do we need to give him another chance? as for option,Kohli is one.let him take over,why do we need him to play certain tests to be eligible?give him the responsibility.Gambhir is another one.struggling batting but proven performer.has expressed his desire to lead too.maybe captaincy will give him the boost he needs
So, we do not want to give someone a second chance after failing spectacularly but it is ok to give the leadership to someone who has not even cemented his place in the Test side! What part of this argument makes sense to you? If you are ready to cut some slack for Kohli, cut the same slack for Dhoni too.
he was given the ODI n T20 job over a performing Yuvraj' date='also due to him being WK it was said it'd be too much for him.I clearly remember that[/quote'] None of our vice captains turn into captains. We do not have a proper process. Also, just because it worked with Dhoni it does not mean it will work every time! So stop putting extreme examples like Dhoni, Graeme Smith and follow the process.
Link to comment
So, we do not want to give someone a second chance after failing spectacularly but it is ok to give the leadership to someone who has not even cemented his place in the Test side! What part of this argument makes sense to you? If you are ready to cut some slack for Kohli, cut the same slack for Dhoni too. None of our vice captains turn into captains. We do not have a proper process. Also, just because it worked with Dhoni it does not mean it will work every time! So stop putting extreme examples like Dhoni, Graeme Smith and follow the process.
the process is to for a captain to resign or be kicked out of captaincy wen he does so badly.I dont see how u miss that?I'm also suggesting extreme examples bcoz we need a change.just bcoz there isnt someone a sureshot candidate doesnt mean e can hang on his job.we gotta try someone. for Kohli,he has cemented his place in the side for me.anyway I suggested Gambhir too. quite funny,u saying we dont hv a proper process,but asking me to follow the process:giggle:
Link to comment
1. Dhoni flopped as a batsman in the 0-8. Dhoni fanboy: It's not his job to score runs. He is a wicketkeeper-batsman. 2. He sucked as keeper regularly letting catches go between himself and slip and standing too far back so that many edges fell short of the slips. Dhoni fanboy: He is not the best keeper but as a package he is great. 3. His captaincy was poor letting opposition get to huge scores with defensive fields. Dhoni fanboy: Bowling was poor. What can the captain do with injured and poor bowlers. So what is Dhoni's role in the team?
:cantstop: Being cool, despite 2 consecutive series losses, talk of test retirement even before the series is over.
Link to comment
the process is to for a captain to resign or be kicked out of captaincy wen he does so badly.I dont see how u miss that?I'm also suggesting extreme examples bcoz we need a change.just bcoz there isnt someone a sureshot candidate doesnt mean e can hang on his job.we gotta try someone. for Kohli,he has cemented his place in the side for me.anyway I suggested Gambhir too. quite funny,u saying we dont hv a proper process,but asking me to follow the process:giggle:
Some who has played 8 Test matches has cemented his place in the side. :laugh: Also, what will change by just Dhoni resigning? There has to be an overall change. The problem is people want a "patch" (but not refactoring as we say in Software Engineering) and hail the 'jugaad'. But, no one wants to toil their a-s-s on the field. It hardly matters to me whether Dhoni is a captain or not in the current scenario. If your batsman fail to score 300 and your bowlers struggle to take 20 wickets, captaincy can do no magic.
Link to comment
Some who has played 8 Test matches has cemented his place in the side. :laugh:
in those 8 matches,he has scored a ton in Australia.couple that with his FC record n ODI record in various countries,I dont see how n for whom he'll get dropped,atleast in forseeable future
Also, what will change by just Dhoni resigning? There has to be an overall change. The problem is people want a "patch" (but not refactoring as we say in Software Engineering) and hail the 'jugaad'. But, no one wants to toil their a-s-s on the field. It hardly matters to me whether Dhoni is a captain or not in the current scenario. If your batsman fail to score 300 and your bowlers struggle to take 20 wickets, captaincy can do no magic.
overall change has to start with Dhoni.a captain is one responsible for him team's performances.coach should also go but that doesnt mean Dhoni shouldnt. isnt a captain's job to get the best out of batsmen so that they can score above 300 n bowlers to take 20 wickets for not too many?if every player is responsible only for himself,whats the captain's job?
Link to comment
he was given the ODI n T20 job over a performing Yuvraj' date='also due to him being WK it was said it'd be too much for him.I clearly remember that[/quote'] Dhoni was performing better than Yuvraj. Yuvraj was not permanent in test team and Dhoni was and he was given captaincy because he was eventually be made test captain that is why Yuvraj was not the option.
Link to comment

Some high points of Dhoni's kaptaani from the past year or so: 1. Reprimanding Sreesanth, who could have helped win the Cape Town test, in the middle of a test match in the field and in the press conference. 2. Saying away matches are just for practice as India plays 80% of it's cricket in the subcontinent. 3. Taking Ishant off when he had England in trouble at Lords. 4. Letting Swann and Broad make merry when England were down in the dumps at Nottingham. 5. Recalling Bell at Nottingham when India were still with a decent chance to win the game. 6. Spreading out the field to Siddle and Hilfenhaus at Melbourne when Australia were in trouble. 7. In the middle of a series of hammerings start talking about your retirement.

Link to comment
Some high points of Dhoni's kaptaani from the past year or so: 1. Reprimanding Sreesanth, who could have helped win the Cape Town test, in the middle of a test match in the field and in the press conference. 2. Saying away matches are just for practice as India plays 80% of it's cricket in the subcontinent. 3. Taking Ishant off when he had England in trouble at Lords. 4. Letting Swann and Broad make merry when England were down in the dumps at Nottingham. 5. Recalling Bell at Nottingham when India were still with a decent chance to win the game. 6. Spreading out the field to Siddle and Hilfenhaus at Melbourne when Australia were in trouble. 7. In the middle of a series of hammerings start talking about your retirement.
not to mention,taking team to watch Don 2 n go karting wen were getting hammered
Link to comment
Dhoni was performing better than Yuvraj. Yuvraj was not permanent in test team and Dhoni was and he was given captaincy because he was eventually be made test captain that is why Yuvraj was not the option.
Dhoni was performing better than Yuvraj?Dhoni failed in WC,failed v SA in Ireland,failed in England ODI series.Yuvraj did well in all those.Dhoni only did well in BD n Afro Asian series. that he was eventually be made test captain is moot point.because Dhoni was given the T20 job wen Dravid hadnt resigned yet.its only after T20 win that he was made ODI captain n Kumble test captain with Dhoni supposed to take over eventually.anyway there could hv been split captaincy. n he had a WK workload too,what about that
Link to comment
in those 8 matches,he has scored a ton in Australia.couple that with his FC record n ODI record in various countries,I dont see how n for whom he'll get dropped,atleast in forseeable future
Kar diya na Q-tiyaapa! :giggle: When I bring in the TINA factor for Dhoni it is stupid but you can bring it for Kohli. Sure, he looks good but not on based on his ODI record (that is irrelevant for Tests). If you keep bringing that in, I will use Dhoni's ODI record too then. Be careful on the lines that you thread and be consistent.
overall change has to start with Dhoni.a captain is one responsible for him team's performances.coach should also go but that doesnt mean Dhoni shouldnt. isnt a captain's job to get the best out of batsmen so that they can score above 300 n bowlers to take 20 wickets for not too many?if every player is responsible only for himself,whats the captain's job?
This is a classical misconception in leadership theory. A leader's job is the maximize the output of the sum of the parts, a leader can not directly change the contribution by the sum of the parts. Dhoni can not score runs for Laxman, Tendulkar, Sehwag etc. They have to score them and then Dhoni's job is to as maximum utilize it in an effective manner. Your theory has a flaw here - [A] you seem to suggest that a captain can make people bat better, You seem to suggest that a captain can magically change fortunes even after his team not performing well. A is self explanatory but wrt B you are effectively telling me that one can win Test matches against quality opposition sides by not scoring 300 runs and/or not taking 20 wickets.
Link to comment

^ I am sure the team really feels inspired by a kaptaan who has a go in the public on one of his bowlers, talks about away matches as practice, and starts his retirement talks when the team is getting hammered. And why should batsmen really give a toss about scoring away from home in the first place when the leader of the team considers the matches a waste of time and practice for the 80% matches played in the subcontinent.

Link to comment

^ You should realize I am not defending Dhoni as a captain or not. I'm sure even you are smart enough to understand that in the current setup the captaincy has no effect on batsmen playing the swinging ball. I am defending the basis on which people are calling for his head. Just in case, some of the points which you have mentioned can be said about others too. I don't want to get there. Also, the so called batsmen can use their own heads. They are not 10-year old kids. They have enough time to give in interviews and criticize Dhoni - may be they should spend some time critiquing their own game.

Link to comment

^ I just want to read that article or look at the press conference once again where Dhoni mentioned about "away matches". I do not seem to find a link. My understanding was that he said - "Away games are to improve yourself as a cricketer" which is a different version altogether.

Link to comment
Kar diya na Q-tiyaapa! :giggle: When I bring in the TINA factor for Dhoni it is stupid but you can bring it for Kohli. Sure, he looks good but not on based on his ODI record (that is irrelevant for Tests). If you keep bringing that in, I will use Dhoni's ODI record too then. Be careful on the lines that you thread and be consistent.
I mentioned his FC record too:doh:I mentioned his ton in Australia too.dont pick n choose.I said Kohli cant be dropped bcoz of COMBINATION of these factors.does Dhoni has that combination?
This is a classical misconception in leadership theory. A leader's job is the maximize the output of the sum of the parts, a leader can not directly change the contribution by the sum of the parts. Dhoni can not score runs for Laxman, Tendulkar, Sehwag etc. They have to score them and then Dhoni's job is to as maximum utilize it in an effective manner. Your theory has a flaw here - [A] you seem to suggest that a captain can make people bat better, You seem to suggest that a captain can magically change fortunes even after his team not performing well. A is self explanatory but wrt B you are effectively telling me that one can win Test matches against quality opposition sides by not scoring 300 runs and/or not taking 20 wickets.[
where did I say that I clearly said he should make them bat n bowl matter.that only means maximum thier potential.for bowler it means setting good fields that allow them to take 20 wickets n for batsmen making appropriate batting order changes n selecting those do well for whole team it means creating an atmosphere in dressing room that inspires players to perform. a captain cannot change fortunes even after not performing poorly.his job starts earlier i.e. to make them perform well.by your logic no captain should ever go as he is responsible for his team's fortunes if the batsmen r batting well n bowlers r bowling well. Strauss didnt bowl for Swann,Bresnan,Anderson nor did he bat for Bell n Cook.must have been stupid to resign.similarly Dravid must hv been an idiot to resign after WC2007 as he didnt bat for Ganguly,Sehwag etc.nor he did bowl for Agarkar,Bhajji etc. captaincy doesnt work like that. u r responsible for ur whole team's performances,whether good or bad
Link to comment
where did I say that I clearly said he should make them bat n bowl matter.that only means maximum thier potential.for bowler it means setting good fields that allow them to take 20 wickets n for batsmen making appropriate batting order changes n selecting those do well for whole team it means creating an atmosphere in dressing room that inspires players to perform. a captain cannot change fortunes even after not performing poorly.his job starts earlier i.e. to make them perform well.by your logic no captain should ever go as he is responsible for his team's fortunes if the batsmen r batting well n bowlers r bowling well. Strauss didnt bowl for Swann,Bresnan,Anderson nor did he bat for Bell n Cook.must have been stupid to resign.similarly Dravid must hv been an idiot to resign after WC2007 as he didnt bat for Ganguly,Sehwag etc.nor he did bowl for Agarkar,Bhajji etc. captaincy doesnt work like that. u r responsible for ur whole team's performances,whether good or bad
:ohmy: Again you are suggesting A! Can you explain in lucid terminology How Dhoni can help the batsmen bat better? This has no relation to winning or losing. I can ask for a captain to quit even if the team is winning. And finally, Dravid id NOT resign after WC 2007. I don't know which game you watch. :headshake: In addition, Strauss resigned citing his personal loss of form and he did not just resign from captaincy but all forms of professional cricket. In addition, he also had someone like Cook who was matured. India does not have one. Captaincy works for captaincy which is strategy, field placements, team composition etc. Do not attribute Laxman unable to play the swinging ball to Dhoni and suggest he should have helped Laxman perform better. That is quite right stupid to be honest. Also, stop asking questions like "What is a captain's job?".
Link to comment
^ I just want to read that article or look at the press conference once again where Dhoni mentioned about "away matches". I do not seem to find a link. My understanding was that he said - "Away games are to improve yourself as a cricketer" which is a different version altogether.
I've posted the link earlier, but could not find it in a quick search right now. It's a DNA India article from the August-September last year IIRC.
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...