Tiger80 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Do I need to babyfeed ya....come out of denial phase... 1984 riots were due to assassination of Indra Gandhi which was in response to Operation Bluestar that happened due to Bhindranwala as he was the primary reason for Punjab militancy... 1984 Riots -> Indra Gandhi assassination -> Operation Bluestar -> Bhindranwala->Punjab militancy :mama: And who created Bhindranwala? .Was he ever a mass sikh leader?UPto mid 70s THe guy was totally unknown face . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 And who created Bhindranwala? .Was he ever a mass sikh leader?UPto mid 70s THe guy was totally unknown face . Err, he was the lead preacher for Damdami Taksal for a while, ie, pretty much a self created super preacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Those who killed Hindus those days are either in jail, most of their leaders were killed with Bhindranwale or a lot of them left India to save themselves. Whereas those who killed Sikhs in riots are roaming freely, contesting and winning elections and their leader got Bharat Ratna. Is it even comparable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Err' date=' he was the lead preacher for Damdami Taksal for a while, ie, pretty much a self created super preacher.[/quote'] Actually it was that indian tigress indira who created him. She created a frankenstein who turned on her master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I dont understand logic of discussing bhinriwale who was total scum. How does that justify genocide of sikhs in India??? Seems some want to give some kind of justifucation. Its like talking about pandits treatment in Kashmir and some nutters using gujurat as some kind of justification for this. What the mindset shows is why the murderers in the gnocide have and will get away with it. Their is some support for it as the tigress was murdered so revege was required. Hence ardent anti Sikhs like lurker will put up some screens and diversions as not intersted in justice. By the way punjab was a mare in 80s. But now its flourishing. Kashmir will go on for next 100 years, so lets not even go their in stupid comparisons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I dont understand logic of discussing bhinriwale who was total scum. How does that justify genocide of sikhs in India??? Seems some want to give some kind of justifucation. Its like talking about pandits treatment in Kashmir and some nutters using gujurat as some kind of justification for this. What the mindset shows is why the murderers in the gnocide have and will get away with it. Their is some support for it as the tigress was murdered so revege was required. Hence ardent anti Sikhs like lurker will put up some screens and diversions as not intersted in justice. By the way punjab was a mare in 80s. But now its flourishing. Kashmir will go on for next 100 years, so lets not even go their in stupid comparisons Who has justified the massacre by discussing Bhindrewala? Straw man really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rageaddict Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Those who killed Hindus those days are either in jail, most of their leaders were killed with Bhindranwale or a lot of them left India to save themselves. Whereas those who killed Sikhs in riots are roaming freely, contesting and winning elections and their leader got Bharat Ratna. Is it even comparable ? You are right . Shows the credibility of BHARAT where Mass Murderers like Rajiv are not only elected as PM but are also hailed as Jewels of Nation. Ab Modi PM ban bhi jae to kya harz hai, kam se kam Rajiv jee ke samne to Modi bhi sant lagta hai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 You are right . Shows the credibility of BHARAT where Mass Murderers like Rajiv are not only elected as PM but are also hailed as Jewels of Nation. Ab Modi PM ban bhi jae to kya harz hai, kam se kam Rajiv jee ke samne to Modi bhi sant lagta hai. Yea - two wrongs make a right. :two_thumbs_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Actually it was that indian tigress indira who created him. She created a frankenstein who turned on her master. 'created' and 'dabbled with' are two different things. I do not buy the idea that Bhindranwala was a IG 'creation'. As i said, he was a lead preacher for Damdami Taksal- the lead body of Sikh theology in the Sikh holy system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Those who killed Hindus those days are either in jail, most of their leaders were killed with Bhindranwale or a lot of them left India to save themselves. Whereas those who killed Sikhs in riots are roaming freely, contesting and winning elections and their leader got Bharat Ratna. Is it even comparable ? No, it is not in India. But it is comparable to me in Canada and i was talking in that context. Make no mistake, both sides have lots of criminals roaming free. In India, there are lots of hindu scumbags that are butchers of the Sikh/muslim roaming free. Not so many Sikhs, though i am sure some of them got away. The Sikhs who did get away are roaming scot free in Canada/UK/US because these countries shelter them. Obviously, if you wanted to be a bit of 'maut ka saudagar' about it, yes, the hindus have more blood on their hands- proportionately more,i'd argue in terms of how these majority vis-a-vis minority confrontations pan out just from a demographical aspect. But then again, that would be like arguing one who kills 50 is better than one who kills 5000 and that is a bit beneath my human dignity to quantify human lives in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I dont understand logic of discussing bhinriwale who was total scum. How does that justify genocide of sikhs in India??? Seems some want to give some kind of justifucation. Its like talking about pandits treatment in Kashmir and some nutters using gujurat as some kind of justification for this. What the mindset shows is why the murderers in the gnocide have and will get away with it. Their is some support for it as the tigress was murdered so revege was required. Hence ardent anti Sikhs like lurker will put up some screens and diversions as not intersted in justice. By the way punjab was a mare in 80s. But now its flourishing. Kashmir will go on for next 100 years, so lets not even go their in stupid comparisons None of these are 'justifications' as much as examples of further 'tit for tat mass criminal mentality' that is present in Indian society. The common thread, between all these incidents, is that Indians are not very self-aware as a society and as such, if they read in the paper that 'a bunch fo muslims raped a hindu girl in manipur', they feel its somehow relevant or smart to vent their frustrations on a random muslim in their backyard kerala. That is the 'mob mentality' that Indians seem to justify and fall victim to at the same time. And as such, both the tendency of Indian people to resort to these innane mob mentality and the state's reluctance to efficiently persecute the main perpetrators of mobs leads to these kinds of incidents. Ultimately, when Indians will be a bit more western in their individualism, these type of 'mobs kill bunches of people and everyone goes home scot free' will disappear from society. Till then, tough beans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 'created' and 'dabbled with' are two different things. I do not buy the idea that Bhindranwala was a IG 'creation'. As i said' date=' he was a lead preacher for Damdami Taksal- the lead body of Sikh theology in the Sikh holy system.[/quote'] Damdami Taksal is not the lead body. It is a sect with very orthodox view of Sikhism.Majority of Sikhs don't follow Damdami taksal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Bringing Bhandarawale in this thread is unfortunate and I assume this is disguised attempt to provide some kind of legitimacy or justification to what likes of Sajjan Kumar or Tyteler did. What happened in Delhi and few other towns in 1984 was extremely despicable and was no less crime than what happened in Gujrat. This is shocking that there hasn't been any conviction for all that rioting. Similarly,NRI Sikhs can not be condoned for creating martyr's out of terrorists who killed people of all religions. They have to realize that in general whole countrry love and respect Punjabi's and Sikhs but none of them going to support them if they keep considering murderers as Shaheeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Bringing Bhandarawale in this thread is unfortunate and I assume this is disguised attempt to provide some kind of legitimacy or justification to what likes of Sajjan Kumar or Tyteler did. What happened in Delhi and few other towns in 1984 was extremely despicable and was no less crime than what happened in Gujrat. This is shocking that there hasn't been any conviction for all that rioting. Similarly,NRI Sikhs can not be condoned for creating martyr's out of terrorists who killed people of all religions. They have to realize that in general whole countrry love and respect Punjabi's and Sikhs but none of them going to support them if they keep considering murderers as Shaheeds. Is it only the NRIs? Is this only a Canada phenomenon? Not really, no. Wasn't Bhindrwale annointed Santh by Akal Thakt in mid 2000s? Were Jinda and Sukha the murderer of Indian General Vaidya annointed shaheed only recently?? This at a time when two of the highest position in India, Indian PM and Chief of Armed Forces, are both Sikhs. Look, this is where I have to go back to Sikh scholars and how they have kept mum and in many cases tried to support the extremists. Feel free to read up Anandpur Sahib resolution that has been at the heart, atleast in late 70s, of Sikh extremism. Delhi riot victims should be provided justice. That is absolutely, 100% undeniable. It is a shame it has come to this really. At the same time Sikh scholars need to stand up against the right wing elements within their religion just like Hindus have done against Modi and the likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 That is a false equivalency. Yes Kashmiri Hindus thrown out of Kashmir is one of the saddest chapter in India' date=' and Kashmir. The question is not that however. [b']We are talking of sheer violence. In terms of killings Sikh extemism was as deadly as what we have seen. Most folks from Punjab, and surrounding areas would attest to this easily. Today of course they somehow tend to get defensive talking about it. O.K lets look some stats Here's what the data says. In the last 21 years, 43,460 people have been killed in the Kashmir insurgency. Of these, 21,323 are militants, 13,226 civilians killed by militants, 3,642 civilians killed by security forces, and 5,369 policemen killed by militants. The 21,323 militants were killed in operations by security forces and include both Kashmiri and foreign militants. And of the 5,369 members of the security forces, around 1,500 are Kashmiri policemen. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-06-20/india/29679480_1_militants-security-forces-sopore While the official figure people killed in Punjab militancy is 15000 -20000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 O.K lets look some stats While the official figure people killed in Punjab militancy is 15000 -20000. lol. That is going to be the legacy of Indians, we will look at a problem with stats. Suppose life imitates cricket :--D:--D Do me a favor Tiger miyaan, plot the roughest time of Sikh militancy in its most extreme phase (1979-1988) and compare with Kashmir militancy. The result may surprise. Also try to look up the following: a) Number of Indian PM killed by Kashmir militancy. b) Number of Indian CM killed by Kashmir militancy. c) Number of Indian MPs/MLAs killed by Kashmir militancy. d) Number of Indian Armed Force Generals killed by Kashmir militancy. e) Biggest bank robbery in Indian history etc etc. Just a few points to ponder. By the way I am not trying to put you in a bad spot, you are a fine poster. Which perhaps makes me wonder if I should just let go right about now instead of creating more bad blood.:((:(( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Even Kashmir extremism was not so bad. Stats are used when you make stupid statements like this in some attempt to justify 84 genoicide. And yes you are attempting in a rather covert way to justify 84 by mentioning Bhindrawale etc etc. Putting up smoke screens and diversions. The extrmism in punjab has basically ended long time back and hence punjab is flourishing. Thus yes they may be some glorification of bhindrawale by some extremist views. But you talk of where is sikh moderates? Well how about looking how there is no extremism in Punjab, thus moderates clrealy in full effect or do you want them to beat their chests in full public view for your benefit. I would focus more on other states with many in misery. Plus focus on your hero Rajiv and Tytler etc etc who face no justice and prosecution. Yet you show no desire for their convictions and villification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 lol. That is going to be the legacy of Indians, we will look at a problem with stats. Suppose life imitates cricket :--D:--D Do me a favor Tiger miyaan, plot the roughest time of Sikh militancy in its most extreme phase (1979-1988) and compare with Kashmir militancy. The result may surprise. Also try to look up the following: a) Number of Indian PM killed by Kashmir militancy. b) Number of Indian CM killed by Kashmir militancy. c) Number of Indian MPs/MLAs killed by Kashmir militancy. d) Number of Indian Armed Force Generals killed by Kashmir militancy. e) Biggest bank robbery in Indian history etc etc. Just a few points to ponder. By the way I am not trying to put you in a bad spot, you are a fine poster. Which perhaps makes me wonder if I should just let go right about now instead of creating more bad blood.:((:(( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 lol. That is going to be the legacy of Indians, we will look at a problem with stats. Suppose life imitates cricket :--D:--D Do me a favor Tiger miyaan, plot the roughest time of Sikh militancy in its most extreme phase (1979-1988) and compare with Kashmir militancy. The result may surprise. Also try to look up the following: a) Number of Indian PM killed by Kashmir militancy. b) Number of Indian CM killed by Kashmir militancy. c) Number of Indian MPs/MLAs killed by Kashmir militancy. d) Number of Indian Armed Force Generals killed by Kashmir militancy. e) Biggest bank robbery in Indian history etc etc. Just a few points to ponder. By the way I am not trying to put you in a bad spot, you are a fine poster. Which perhaps makes me wonder if I should just let go right about now instead of creating more bad blood.:((:(( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 For me it is the number of innocents killed , and for how much time they suffered describe the intensity of movement and not the number of politicians killed .The worst phase of Punjab militancy was 1984 to 1992-93 .Read ved prakash's terrorism in northern India , it has all the figures . Anyway the fact is extremism in Punjab is dead and it is not going to be revived .Whatever happen in Akal takht or SGPC is just politics And BTW you are free to put me in bad spot :two_thumbs_up: I personally differentiate between head of States and simple panchayat politician. And I also do accord some dignity to Akal Takht or SGPC over local gurdwara prabhank committee. But thats just me. Clearly we wont reach anywhere, lets just agree to disagree :hatsoff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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