ravishingravi Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 ejsOmAg32lE&feature=g-vrec This is gold. I started watching cricket from 95 Aus V/S WI series in WI. 96 WC was a big deal for us at the time. It was everything. I have very vivid memories of it. This match, a guy called Lee Germon who captained NZ for a very short period of time, in fact was brought to the team as a captain which doesn't happen often went gung ho after the aussies from the word go. Seemed like Kiwis had decided to go after them no matter what. Chris Harris played a blinder. Australia chasing 287 which was a colossal figure those days was 28/1 after 10 overs. They were behind the eight ball needing 203 after 30 Overs when the best captain ever decided to send in Shane Warne to up the ante. Another great innings by Mark Waugh who was the best player in the world at the time ended up getting them through. Brings back great memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mark Taylor was one of the greatest instinctive captains (along with Hansie Cronje) I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mark Waugh was the best player in the world at some time? Wonder which world I was on at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I remember the innings from Chris Harris....actually it looked at one stage NZL will get a bigger score than what they ended up with.....I always thought Harris was a very elegant batsman when in flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utalk Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Mark Waugh was the best player in the world at some time? Wonder which world I was on at the time. I am not too sure about him being the best in the world but around that time Mark was playing some awesome cricket. That was the best time being a cricket fan for me. AUS v WI battle in test cricket. Pakistan kept winning in Eng, Tendulkar and Lara were getting to their peak, Steve Waugh stamped his authority on Windies attack. Warne was weaving his magic. Donald was tearing in to terrify batsmen. Aside from cricket Bollywood started coming away from typical masala action films of 80s and early 90s with love stories. Kumar sanu was singing 20 songs a day. Life was so much fun at college. Best of all time spent with my late Mother that I will cherish for rest of my life, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Mark Waugh was the best player in the world at some time? Wonder which world I was on at the time. You were not on my time. :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 I am not too sure about him being the best in the world but around that time Mark was playing some awesome cricket. That was the best time being a cricket fan for me. AUS v WI battle in test cricket. Pakistan kept winning in Eng, Tendulkar and Lara were getting to their peak, Steve Waugh stamped his authority on Windies attack. Warne was weaving his magic. Donald was tearing in to terrify batsmen. Aside from cricket Bollywood started coming away from typical masala action films of 80s and early 90s with love stories. Kumar sanu was singing 20 songs a day. Life was so much fun at college. Best of all time spent with my late Mother that I will cherish for rest of my life, Cheers utalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 M Waugh was never even the best player in his house, specially if you are talking about '96 when S Waugh had played one epic innings after another a year back in the West Indies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 M Waugh was never even the best player in his house' date=' specially if you are talking about '96 when S Waugh had played one epic innings after another a year back in the West Indies.[/quote'] That may be your opinion, but to my understanding there was phase from 1996-98, when the Australian team was too dependent on Mark Waugh to fire in ODIs. Something like Tendulkar. If he failed Australia invariably lost. He was shifted to opening in tri series against SL and WI preceding WC and he was one of the best if not the best during that phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooda Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Mark Waugh was one of the better ODI bats of his day but no where near consistent enough to be the best in the world. If he had a little bit of his brothers grit he would have been a true great. Still he was one of my favorite players when I started following cricket in full flow he was so good to watch. Did play some fine innings for Oz in tests too - like in SA in 96 or 97 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 That may be your opinion' date=' but to my understanding there was phase from 1996-98, when the Australian team was too dependent on Mark Waugh to fire in ODIs. Something like Tendulkar. If he failed Australia invariably lost. He was shifted to opening in tri series against SL and WI preceding WC and he was one of the best if not the best during that phase.[/quote'] Well, it's a matter of opinion, but never ever in his career would I rate M Waugh as being a contender of the best batsman in the world. There is no doubt he was one of the best ODI batsmen for a few years, Tendulkar was clearly the best during that time, but during the 90s it was Tendulkar, Lara, and S Waugh in that order for me as the best batsmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well' date=' it's a matter of opinion, but never ever in his career would I rate M Waugh as being a contender of the best batsman in the world. There is no doubt he was one of the best ODI batsmen for a few years, Tendulkar was clearly the best during that time, but during the 90s it was Tendulkar, Lara, and S Waugh in that order for me as the best batsmen.[/quote'] Steve Waugh? Third best ODI bat of the 90s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Steve Waugh? Third best ODI bat of the 90s? No, the third best overall batsman of the 90s. My weight split is usually 80% tests, 15% ODIs, 5% T20s, and during those times of no T20s it would be 85% tests, 15% ODIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 No' date=' the third best overall batsman of the 90s. My weight split is usually 80% tests, 15% ODIs, 5% T20s, and during those times of no T20s it would be 85% tests, 15% ODIs.[/quote'] Notwithstanding the fact that your random % split b/w Test/odi does not seem too sophisticated, I agree with your ranking. P.S; If it was just ODIs, Saeed Anwar and Aravinda da Silva should be in the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Notwithstanding the fact that your random % split b/w Test/odi does not seem too sophisticated, I agree with your ranking. P.S; If it was just ODIs, Saeed Anwar and Aravinda da Silva should be in the conversation. Of course, it's random and up to individual preferences as to where one rates the accomplishments in the individual format. Hope you weren't expecting a sophisticated scientific model from me to back it up? :winky: And that's the reason why M Waugh being classified as one of the best batsmen, let alone the best for any period of time seemed irksome. Yeah, no doubt he was one of the best ODI batsmen for a few years but he was never close to the elite brass in test cricket. Someone like Dean Jones would be a good analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Of course' date=' it's random and up to individual preferences as to where one rates the accomplishments in the individual format. Hope you weren't expecting a sophisticated scientific model from me to back it up? :winky:[/quote'] No expectations for any model here, but I'd surely expect you to be open minded enough to consider all batting performances on their individual merit on a case-by-case basis, as opposed to resorting to a default bracketing system. I guess we are talking style v substance. If somebody asked me to name the top 4 batsmen of the 90s, the 4 names that will immediately pop into my head will be - SRT, Lara, Anwar, De Silva and M Waugh. Steve Waugh would have been no.6 on that list. Clearly - the stats from that time tell a different story and the elder Waugh was just a better batsmen, but from a purely stylistic/aesthetic perspective, Steve does not pop immediately into one's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 No expectations for any model here, but I'd surely expect you to be open minded enough to consider all batting performances on their individual merit on a case-by-case basis, as opposed to resorting to a default bracketing system. It's not a default bracketing system but just a general guideline to emphasize my opinion that tests are way more important than other formats in judging a player. Sure, innings like Tendulkar's desert storm or Ponting's 140 in a WC final can skew the percentage a bit here and a bit there. I guess we are talking style v substance. If somebody asked me to name the top 4 batsmen of the 90s, the 4 names that will immediately pop into my head will be - SRT, Lara, Anwar, De Silva and M Waugh. Steve Waugh would have been no.6 on that list. Clearly - the stats from that time tell a different story and the elder Waugh was just a better batsmen, but from a purely stylistic/aesthetic perspective, Steve does not pop immediately into one's head. I wasn't referring to stats at all here. Just going by my cricketing experience of the 90s and everyone will have a different experience as you have had given your choice of batsmen is quite different from mine. But if you were to ask me what makes S Waugh stand out among the other names you mentioned, it would be the WI series of '95. It took a special batsman to do what he did in that series, and it of course was not a flash in the pan performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 It's not a default bracketing system but just a general guideline to emphasize my opinion that tests are way more important than other formats in judging a player. Sure' date=' innings like Tendulkar's desert storm or Ponting's 140 in a WC final can skew the percentage a bit here and a bit there.[/quote'] Here's (what I think) an interesting question - Who according to you was the better batsmen, overall? Alec Stewart or Michael Bevan? You are correct - Our opinions are influenced by our own interpretation of what constitutes amazing/interesting. Of course, somethings are non negotiable. But others - to each his own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Here's (what I think) an interesting question - Who according to you was the better batsmen, overall? Alec Stewart or Michael Bevan? Oh most definitely, Stewart. Bevan was a great ODI batsman but would not even challenge above average test batsmen. It's like asking who is better among Raina and Vaughan. You are correct - Our opinions are influenced by our own interpretation of what constitutes amazing/interesting. Of course, somethings are non negotiable. But others - to each his own! And it got me curious as to how anyone can consider M Waugh as the best batsman in the world at any point of time in his career! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Shwetabh, Mark Waugh was one of the top dogs in cricket, specially LOI around 1996. His performance in WC was second to none. Best of the best statement is always dicey but he was certainly right up there with Lara, Sachin, Inzzy in that time. In fact you made me search PWC ratings of the time. (:beee::beee::beee: ) and around the finals, March 1996, Lara-SRT-MWaugh are 1-2-3 LOI. Cant argue much with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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