surajmal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 India doesn't need any "intel" sources in Pakistan. They know where the terrorist camps are. They know where ISI's headquarters are. They know the locations of Pak Army's important locations (save for the nukes). They know where Dawood Ibrahim is. India's primary enemy isn't "Non-State" actors. It is the "State" actors. Hope you wagah border candle kissers get your heads out of your asses and realize that simple reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Indeed. Like ripping off your enemies. If i get an opportunity to interact with my enemy, the end result of which is, i make 10 times more money than my enemy in the process, i will do it every single day of my life till i breathe my last. For it would be insane, would it not, to refuse the opportunity to get the longer end of the stick against your enemy ? By hosting India-Pakistan bilateral series in India, basically what is happening is India is making money from India-Pakistan while Pakistan is making diddly squat. It works for me.Problem is that whatever little pakistan earns it is investing in murdering Indian citizens and soldiers. So, in effect, we are making the BCCI richer and our soldiers and citizens more unsafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 That is a very roundabout way of intelligence gathering. I doubt India would or should risk the reputation of its leading companies (like Tatas etc) to use them for intelligence purposes. Large scale investments are not necessary for intelligence gathering and is an unwise strategy in an enemy country' date=' and in fact will provide leverage to pakistan. I also dont see how, for example, relaxing rules for visas to pakis coming to India is going help.[/quote'] Well, the point is, when you employ thousands of pakistanis in Pakistan (like US businesses do), when your intelligence dept. turns on the attention, they will pick up some chatter from these thousands of locals that can be strategically useful. As i said, that is how Osama was found. Not to mention, if say India-Pakistan gets as integrated economically like US-Canada is, then Pakistanis won't blow up the BSE, as stock drops in BSE = billions wiped out from the Paki economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 India is not USA. India neither has the resources (atleast not to the overwhelming extent that USA does) nor the cojones to do what it takes. US not only pumps money into Pak, its drones operate with impunity over its airspace and scour its landscape for any "hostiles". So the best bet is Muktibahini II with the Balochis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panther Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 No' date=' full fledged covert operations on a scale that CIA undertook during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Arm Balochi separatists with Stingers and heavy weaponry if needed.[/quote'] India is already doing that by arming the ttp and baloch fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 we have done essentially the same. hardly any investments, any links etc. with pakistan. Thus, it remains an almost complete 'unknown' to us. USA puts money in Pakistan, not with the hope that it will make them westernized and change them, but with the hope that by employing thousands of Pakistanis for US businesses, they will stumble across some intel from those thousands of pakistanis that would ultimately, help US objectives. And so far, that strategy works. US is putting money into pakistan because they are scared shitless (until they pull out next year) of things falling into chaos in Pak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jairamesh Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 we have done essentially the same. hardly any investments, any links etc. with pakistan. Thus, it remains an almost complete 'unknown' to us. USA puts money in Pakistan, not with the hope that it will make them westernized and change them, but with the hope that by employing thousands of Pakistanis for US businesses, they will stumble across some intel from those thousands of pakistanis that would ultimately, help US objectives. And so far, that strategy works. You keep reiterating US businesses have put into Pakistan employing thousands? Name one example? US only offers direct military aid to Pakistan Army. Hence control the sole authority in Pakistan, the defacto Government. US business aren't idiots to put money in unstable economies like Pakistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 India is already doing that by arming the ttp and baloch fighters. Need to ramp it up. Flood them with latest weaponry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did the USA win the Cold War? And Osama was caught by an effective intelligence network not because of American investments in pakistan. the effective intelligence network that USED US commercial assets in Pakistan to gain access to the information. The reason US intel got Osama, not the Israeli or the French, is because the Israelis or the French have ZERO ability to use 'eyes and ears' in Pakistan without arousing suspicion, USA can use thousands of the Pakistanis employed by the US companies to subvert action in Pakistan. Do not underestimate the value of US commercial assets in Pakistan to the US intelligence and military networks in Pakistan. Just having somethign simple as franchised tire shops and gas stations in Pakistan makes tracking something like 'where are the legions of Haqqani network terrorists hanging around these days' ten fold easier to track than using expensive field agents that cost a million times more in resources and are at far greater risk of exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jairamesh Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Need to ramp it up. Flood them with latest weaponry. Definitely a call-up for our Vinay Kumar and Sir Jaddu. :isalute: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 India is not USA. India neither has the resources (atleast not to the overwhelming extent that USA does) nor the cojones to do what it takes. US not only pumps money into Pak' date=' its drones operate with impunity over its airspace and scour its landscape for any "hostiles". So the best bet is Muktibahini II with the Balochis.[/quote'] again, not possible for us without Afghan/Iranian help. India cannot infiltrate Pakistan effectively without the help of these two nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Well, the point is, when you employ thousands of pakistanis in Pakistan (like US businesses do), when your intelligence dept. turns on the attention, they will pick up some chatter from these thousands of locals that can be strategically useful. As i said, that is how Osama was found. This is not how Osama was found, it was the CIA network which found him. And by the way, the pakis will throw out any investments from India at the first hint of it affecting their strategic purposes. India and pakistan both have intelligence assets in each other's countries which are not based on economic investments. Not to mention, if say India-Pakistan gets as integrated economically like US-Canada is, then Pakistanis won't blow up the BSE, as stock drops in BSE = billions wiped out from the Paki economy.They risked their economic future by hiding Bin-Laden and you believe they wont betray India? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Well, the point is, when you employ thousands of pakistanis in Pakistan (like US businesses do), when your intelligence dept. turns on the attention, they will pick up some chatter from these thousands of locals that can be strategically useful. As i said, that is how Osama was found. Not to mention, if say India-Pakistan gets as integrated economically like US-Canada is, then Pakistanis won't blow up the BSE, as stock drops in BSE = billions wiped out from the Paki economy. Give me some of what your are smoking. Seriously. Pick up a ****ing history book. Past is prologue. There will be no piss no matter how much your kind wants it. There side wants your kind converted or dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You keep reiterating US businesses have put into Pakistan employing thousands? Name one example? US only offers direct military aid to Pakistan Army. Hence control the sole authority in Pakistan, the defacto Government. US business aren't idiots to put money in unstable economies like Pakistan. You do know that 15% tire shops in Pakistan are actually goodyear franchises, right ? that means each time a taliban jeep blows a tire and goes for a refit somewhere, you have 15% chance of tracking it through company accounting receipts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Give me some of what your are smoking. Seriously. Pick up a ****ing history book. Past is prologue. There will be no piss no matter how much your kind wants it. There side wants your kind converted or dead. they will start exploring option 'c' (ie, not converted or dead) once they find out that making my pocket lighter by a dollar makes their pocket lighter by ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 How did the USA win the Cold War? And Osama was caught by an effective intelligence network not because of American investments in pakistan. Has US won the cold war? :giggle: Unless you are extremely "focussed" (read myopic) and consider fall of USSR as end of cold war, I refuse to see how US won it. Lets's see: US supports Afgan rebels to get at USSR during cold war. The rebels have been after US ever since. US uses Pakistan as landing area to get weapons and money to Afganistan. Pakistan uses it to develop its own N weapons and ultimately becomes worst terrorist place on earth. All roads to anti US start from Pakistan today. US supports China to encircle Russia from other end, providing economic benefits. Today China is US's number 1 competitor. Sure US won the cold war...if you say so :giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You do know that 15% tire shops in Pakistan are actually goodyear franchises' date=' right ? that means each time a taliban jeep blows a tire and goes for a refit somewhere, you have 15% chance of tracking it through company accounting receipts.[/quote'] For them its a religious war. Bad economics simply means more people to recruit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You do know that 15% tire shops in Pakistan are actually goodyear franchises' date= right ? that means each time a taliban jeep blows a tire and goes for a refit somewhere, you have 15% chance of tracking it through company accounting receipts. now how will anyone know that :hysterical: :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 You do know that 15% tire shops in Pakistan are actually goodyear franchises' date=' right ? that means each time a taliban jeep blows a tire and goes for a refit somewhere, you have 15% chance of tracking it through company accounting receipts.[/quote']:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: This cant be serious .. so the Taliban walk into a goodyear repairshop to repair their tires? And they duly sign the receipts with "Taliban", I suppose. I guess they use Amex cards also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 This is not how Osama was found' date=' it was the CIA network which found him. And by the way, the pakis will throw out any investments from India at the first hint of it affecting their strategic purposes. India and pakistan both have intelligence assets in each other's countries which are not based on economic investments. [/quote'] And those 'assets' are expensive. they are 'active' assets, that require millions of dollars in initial investment ( training, logistics setup, etc) and regular cash influx to keep them viable. They are a valuable resource but needs to be augumented with 'passive intel gathering' via the integrated business model, where its the CIA guy with accounting degree that looks at the company finances and concludes 'the haqqani network are using the petrol pump at dera ghazi khan the most, clearly they are around there somewhere'. Err, USA-Pakistan is nowhere as integrated as USA-Canada is. India-Pakistan probably wont ever get that economically integrated but if it did, trust me, Pakistan would have to be clinically insane to try and hurt Indian economy, because it hurts them back ten folds through economic feedback. This is one of the major reasons why Canadians bend over backwards to accomodate US demands- not because we are scared of their military might, but because we are scared of their economic sway in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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