Alltime XI challenge

[Muloghonto]

1. Sunil Gavaskar 2. Smith 3. Kallis 4. Sachin 5. Viv Richards 6. Javed Miandad 7. Gilchrist (wk) 8. Imran Khan 9. Wasim Akram 10.Lillee 11.Muralitharan Sub: Botham (At his peak, he was the absolute best) 1. Barry Richards 2. Sehwag 3. Dravid 4. Graeme Pollock 5. B Lara 6. Gary Sobers 7. Andy Flower (wk) 8. Richard Hadlee 9. Malcom Marshall 10.Mcgrath 11.Warne Sub: Steyn(will replace Mcgrath if he continues this way)

Good teams. Minor gripe here: there are better batsmen around than Miandad IMO. He started off with a bang but was a so-so batsman till the late 80s and cashed in on a few amazing seasons. I dont think he was ever very good till the late 80s and significantly worse overseas. Also, I dont think Andy Flower, as great a batsman as he is, is quite up to the challenge to keep to Warne or Sobers.

[Sooda]

When you see names like Sehwag and Ganguly flash up' date=' when all-time XI's are getting picked be it in Tests or ODI's, you know it is time to abort the thread.[/quote'] Ganguly is one of the best ODI openers ever and Sehwag one of the best test openers ever...

[JaFanatic]

When you see names like Sehwag and Ganguly flash up' date=' when all-time XI's are getting picked be it in Tests or ODI's, you know it is time to abort the thread.[/quote'] When you see brainless posts like this, you know its time to name you a troll.

[Sooda]

Tendulkar, S Anwar, Ponting, J Kallis, Bevan, Dhoni, Klusener, Akram, Ambrose, Warne, Saqlain Gilchrist, M Waugh, Ganguly, Richards, Lara, M Hussey, Kapil Dev, Kumble, McGrath, Garner, Muralitharan

MY ODI teams ..^ Team one looks stronger on paper though having Tendulkar and Ponting and MSD, not to mention two all rounders in LK and JK.. tried to match team 2 up by roping in Viv and Lara...Hussey was a pretty great 'finisher' and with Kapil there the attack is pretty good...thought Id try and fit K Pierterson in there... but not sure I can...

[jairamesh]

ODIs, any conditions and any venue, fair weather teams Tendu Jayasuriya Ponting Lara M Hussey Dhoni wk & c Kluesnar Akram Saqlain Steyn Donald VERUS Gilchrist wk Sehwag Viv Mark Waugh/KP can't decide Kallis Bevan Warne c Waqar Brett Lee Murli McGrath

[trundlerNO1]

ODI Tendulkar Dean Jones Viv Richard Ponting Micheal Hussey MS Dhoni(wk) Lance Kulnser Goel Garner Wasim Akram Glen McGrath Muarli Mathew Hayden Saeed Anwar Adam Gilchrist Brain Lara ab de villiers Bevan Imran Khan Waqar Younis Brett Lee saqlain mushtaq Sir RJ Hadlee

[trundlerNO1]

1. Sir Jacob Hobbs
2. Gavaskar
3. Ponting
4. Greg Chappell
5. Viv Richard
6. Gary Sober
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Denis Lillee
9. Shane Warne
10. Wasim Akram
11. Marshall

1. Mathew Hayden
2. Sir Lutton
3. Brain Lara
4. Kallis
5. Sachin
6. Imran Khan
7. Matt Proir
8. sir richard hadlee
9. Goel Garner
10. Muarlitharan
11. Ambrose

[Number]

Ganguly is one of the best ODI openers ever and Sehwag one of the best test openers ever...

tell him VVVVVS is the greatest ODI player ever and he'll say this is the best thread on ICF.

[Hafeez]

Imran khan should be in All time XI Test team 88 test,s 350 around wickets Ave-22 (25 five wicket haul,s) 3800 runs 9-100s Ave-37.50 8 Man of the Series award in 28 series he played King khan all the way

[India-KXIP fan]

Alastair Cook Matthew Hayden Allan Border Brian Lara Gary Sobers Kumar Sangakarra Adam Gilchrist Left handed master race

[harmuk]

Ganguly is one of the best ODI openers ever and Sehwag one of the best test openers ever...

Yes and Kaif is one of the best middle order batsman ever. One guy has a career S/R of 70 and is one of the best ODI opener ever, and another cannot average 30 in Tests, in the team 2nd innings and is one of the greatest test opener. Nice going. Too bad, that India is not the only international team out there for some of you.

[harmuk]

tell him VVVVVS is the greatest ODI player ever and he'll say this is the best thread on ICF.

I am no big fan of any one player per say. I say like I see it, unlike folks like you who are hung up on hero worshipping one or two players. Having said that the guy's ODI career has been cut short, when one considers average one day players like Ganguly and Dravid get to play 300 plus one day games with a low 70's S/R. And once the duo of Ganguly and Dravid were out, India wins a WC after losing 17-18 finals, when these guys were fixtures in the one day side along with you know who.

[Sooda]

Yes and Kaif is one of the best middle order batsman ever. One guy has a career S/R of 70 and is one of the best ODI opener ever' date=' and another cannot average 30 in Tests, in the team 2nd innings and is one of the greatest test opener. Nice going. Too bad, that India is not the only international team out there for some of you.[/quote'] Gangulys SR of 73, not spectacular I agree but most of his career was spent opening with Tendulkar maybe it did not necessarily need to be higher. An average of 41 and 22 ODI tons puts him right up there. Also in comparision with other openers regarded highly around the same era- Anwars is 80, Mark Waughs was 76, higher but again not amazing especially by modern standards. Guys like Jayasuirya and Gilly scored faster but not as consistent at all Who would you rank ahead of him - or more to the point if selecting two sets of ODI openers for two dream teams who would they be. Desmond Haynes is a very strong contender but I cant imagine his SR is that good. I agree that VVS could have played more ODI cricket, his tons in Aus and Pak were superb. Was not great in the field but was a good slip catcher.

[Muloghonto]

Yes and Kaif is one of the best middle order batsman ever. One guy has a career S/R of 70 and is one of the best ODI opener ever' date=' and another cannot average 30 in Tests, in the team 2nd innings and is one of the greatest test opener. Nice going. Too bad, that India is not the only international team out there for some of you.[/quote'] 1.Considering that scoring 250-275 ( a strike rate of 83-90 seen on a batsman scale) was a solid & defendable total for most of Ganguly's career, a strike rate of 70 is definitely respectable. Especially factoring in that Gangu had the 'sheet anchor' role to Tendy and there were no PPs back in his time, only slog overs, a stage where opening batsmen rarely are expected to be around for. Ganguly's strike rate is 73. Kallis' strike rate is also 73, Inzamam at 74, Nathan Astle was at 72, Hayden at 77, etc. Definitely competetive in the strike rate department, especially considering that his predecessor to the role of 'an extremely successful opener who played second fiddle to an explosive player but made his starts count & accelerated near the end' was none other than Desmond Haynes, who held all the meaningful ODI records before Tendu broke them. (Runs, centuries, 50+ scores, WC runs, etc). 2. Sehwag's second innnigs record is a blotch, but there is hardly any opener around who hasnt failed somewhere or other. Also, Sehwag's drop in 2nd innings average(30.25) compared to first innings average( 62.50) is a drop of 51.6% Seems pretty bad, but these stats in and of itself mean nothing. There are many players, great or otherwise, that display this. Ponting averages 57.49 in 1st innings and 42.16 in 2nd innings. That is a drop of 26%. Brian Lara, the only genuine contender to Tendulkar's #1 batting status across all formats for the last 20 years, averages 63.94 in 1st innings, 38.18 in 2nd innings. A drop of 40%. Pointing out a random set of stats that favour or disfavour a cricketer is largely irrelevant to the discussion, since barring Bradman and Lohmann, every cricketer has chinks in their statistics. What is fact about Sehwag, is that at his pomp, he was capable of utterly destroying any attack on any track in a way no opener or top order bat has done consistently in Test cricket, with as much dividends. He has destroyed Saffie attack in Saffieland, where he took on Pollock,Ntini and Kallis and came out dominating. He has also dominated Morkel & Steyn on a lively Nagpur track, where except for Kallis and Amla, no Saffie batsman looked okay aganist pace. Also scored a blistering century against Mitchell Johnson, Stuart Clarke. Obviously, he has failed recently overseas ( until 2011, his performance in overseas conditions was better than most openers in the game). But the entire point of Sehwag meriting consideration, is that there isnt any other opener who can claim to be able to blitzkreig bowlers of the callibre of McGrath,Gillespie, Warne or Steyn,Morkel, etc. on *any* conditions. As such, a successful Sehwag innings is the closest thing to batsmen putting their team (in TEST CRICKET) on a winning path as there is: before you know it, the opposition are at 150/1 in a hour and half or two and the opposition bowlers have gained another session's worth of leeway to dismiss your team. That is the major aspect of Sehwag that puts him in alltime considerations.

[Muloghonto]

I am no big fan of any one player per say. I say like I see it' date=' unlike folks like you who are hung up on hero worshipping one or two players. [/quote'] What you are confusing as 'hero worship' is simply your lack of understanding of the game. We say it as we see it too. Too bad you see far less than any credible cricket watcher. The rise of India in ODI competition in recent times has been a Dhoni factor, along with Yuvraj factor- excellent finishing and brisk middle order scoring. You may be too young to remember, but at one point, almost 10 years ago, Ganguly sported somethign ridiculous as 10 finals won,1 lost. These 'stats' vary over time and again, mean far different than your insinuation. You may not be smart or educated enough to differentiate causation from correlation but i suggest you google those two words. Might help you understand cricket better.

[Sooda]

^ He Was Not An Opener !

[harmuk]

1.Considering that scoring 250-275 ( a strike rate of 83-90 seen on a batsman scale) was a solid & defendable total for most of Ganguly's career, a strike rate of 70 is definitely respectable. Especially factoring in that Gangu had the 'sheet anchor' role to Tendy and there were no PPs back in his time, only slog overs, a stage where opening batsmen rarely are expected to be around for. Ganguly's strike rate is 73. Kallis' strike rate is also 73, Inzamam at 74, Nathan Astle was at 72, Hayden at 77, etc. Definitely competetive in the strike rate department, especially considering that his predecessor to the role of 'an extremely successful opener who played second fiddle to an explosive player but made his starts count & accelerated near the end' was none other than Desmond Haynes, who held all the meaningful ODI records before Tendu broke them. (Runs, centuries, 50+ scores, WC runs, etc). 2. Sehwag's second innnigs record is a blotch, but there is hardly any opener around who hasnt failed somewhere or other. Also, Sehwag's drop in 2nd innings average(30.25) compared to first innings average( 62.50) is a drop of 51.6% Seems pretty bad, but these stats in and of itself mean nothing. There are many players, great or otherwise, that display this. Ponting averages 57.49 in 1st innings and 42.16 in 2nd innings. That is a drop of 26%. Brian Lara, the only genuine contender to Tendulkar's #1 batting status across all formats for the last 20 years, averages 63.94 in 1st innings, 38.18 in 2nd innings. A drop of 40%. Pointing out a random set of stats that favour or disfavour a cricketer is largely irrelevant to the discussion, since barring Bradman and Lohmann, every cricketer has chinks in their statistics. What is fact about Sehwag, is that at his pomp, he was capable of utterly destroying any attack on any track in a way no opener or top order bat has done consistently in Test cricket, with as much dividends. He has destroyed Saffie attack in Saffieland, where he took on Pollock,Ntini and Kallis and came out dominating.He has also dominated Morkel & Steyn on a lively Nagpur track, where except for Kallis and Amla, no Saffie batsman looked okay aganist pace. Also scored a blistering century against Mitchell Johnson, Stuart Clarke. Obviously, he has failed recently overseas ( until 2011, his performance in overseas conditions was better than most openers in the game). But the entire point of Sehwag meriting consideration, is that there isnt any other opener who can claim to be able to blitzkreig bowlers of the callibre of McGrath,Gillespie, Warne or Steyn,Morkel, etc. on *any* conditions. As such, a successful Sehwag innings is the closest thing to batsmen putting their team (in TEST CRICKET) on a winning path as there is: before you know it, the opposition are at 150/1 in a hour and half or two and the opposition bowlers have gained another session's worth of leeway to dismiss your team. That is the major aspect of Sehwag that puts him in alltime considerations.

Load of BS. He dominated SA attack for one inning in SA, like Agarkar and Kumble did in England for one inning, and he destroyed SA attack. Himm...Ok. I think he averages like 20 in SA. Anyhow, keep going with your BS and keep us entertained.

Also, Sehwag's drop in 2nd innings average(30.25) compared to first innings average( 62.50) is a drop of 51.6% Seems pretty bad, but these stats in and of itself mean nothing. There are many players, great or otherwise, that display this. Ponting averages 57.49 in 1st innings and 42.16 in 2nd innings

Average 42 is not same as 30. More BS. Perhaps they did not teach you math in your 1st grade. Not your fault.

[harmuk]

1.Considering that scoring 250-275 ( a strike rate of 83-90 seen on a batsman scale) was a solid & defendable total for most of Ganguly's career, a strike rate of 70 is definitely respectable. Especially factoring in that Gangu had the 'sheet anchor' role to Tendy and there were no PPs back in his time, only slog overs, a stage where opening batsmen rarely are expected to be around for. Ganguly's strike rate is 73. Kallis' strike rate is also 73, Inzamam at 74, Nathan Astle was at 72, Hayden at 77, etc. Definitely competetive in the strike rate department, especially considering that his predecessor to the role of 'an extremely successful opener who played second fiddle to an explosive player but made his starts count & accelerated near the end' was none other than Desmond Haynes, who held all the meaningful ODI records before Tendu broke them. (Runs, centuries, 50+ scores, WC runs, etc).

How about this. Ganguly sucks as a ODI batsman overall, to be brought up on the world stage. Now you can keep harping about Inzy, Haynes etc. etc. but even GG is a better one day opener than Ganguly and his mediocre 70 S/R, just keeping it to Indian cricket . Players like Jaya, Gilly are in a different ball park who started earlier or at the same time as Ganguly and he is not even in the Tendulkar S/R, vicinity for being an opener, with all 50 overs at his disposal. And sure he should be in the discussion for the all-time ODI openers list.

[harmuk]

Gangulys SR of 73, not spectacular I agree but most of his career was spent opening with Tendulkar maybe it did not necessarily need to be higher. An average of 41 and 22 ODI tons puts him right up there. Also in comparision with other openers regarded highly around the same era- Anwars is 80, Mark Waughs was 76, higher but again not amazing especially by modern standards. Guys like Jayasuirya and Gilly scored faster but not as consistent at all Who would you rank ahead of him - or more to the point if selecting two sets of ODI openers for two dream teams who would they be. Desmond Haynes is a very strong contender but I cant imagine his SR is that good. I agree that VVS could have played more ODI cricket, his tons in Aus and Pak were superb. Was not great in the field but was a good slip catcher.

Outside of Indian cricket fans, not one person will pick Ganguly over Gilly, Jaya, Haynes, Hayden, Greenidge, Smith, Gayle, Anwar, Waugh to name a few as an opener, and it is not far fetched GG is a better ODI opener (only thing is he does not have the 300 game stats) than Ganguly, just keeping it to Indian cricket.

[harmuk]

What you are confusing as 'hero worship' is simply your lack of understanding of the game. We say it as we see it too. Too bad you see far less than any credible cricket watcher.

http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2316219&postcount=563. Hmm...Caught with tail between the legs, never to be seen.

These 'stats' vary over time and again, mean far different than your insinuation. You may not be smart or educated enough to differentiate causation from correlation but i suggest you google those two words. Might help you understand cricket better

And again... http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2316913&postcount=568 And again.... http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2316734&postcount=567 And again... http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2316658&postcount=566 We can keep going one post after another, there for some good laughs. Now who needs some googling?