India, Ever The Reluctant Victors

[Dhondy]

Some paragons of human virtue have chided the unruly among us for noisily celebrating our victory, perhaps for denigrating the beaten finalists in the process. Really, how remiss of us! I feel sorry for people who cannot bring themselves to praise their side without balancing it out with praise for the opposition. There's some kind of subliminal logic there, perhaps a repressed fear of what happens if we stamp our feet, let the hair down and sneer at the opposition. Will karma bite us in the bum? In a sense, this typifies why India have been perennial losers at sport for so long, and perhaps what Lurker was driving at before the final, perhaps not quite conceptualising the point he was really trying to make. Indians as a whole lack killer instinct. They feel sorry for the opposition when the latter is down and out. On the rare occasions that they do win, they'll often go out of their way to find mitigations for the loss of those they have beaten. What happens as a consequence is of course, is that the opposition gets off the mat, brushes off the dust and thinks that he's been really unlucky here. Perhaps it was he who deserved to win after all?...Perhaps this kind-looking person who has just beaten him, helping him up with tears in his eyes for his plight, really didn't expect to win? Maybe he just fluked it? And of course, the rest of the world seizes on this kind of thing and pick up the apologetic theme. Note how many columnists at home and abroad have praised cricket as the real victors. Yes, India have won, but it is both teams that deserve to be congratulated. The refain goes on, "there are no real losers in this competition....blah blah blah". You read any article on Cricinfo, and you see the same apologetic stuff, "Sorry we beat you.....we both deserved to win...Pakistan were magnificent in defeat..." Rubbish! Can you imagine the same sort of stuff being written, had Australia won this tournament? The headlines would have probably read, "Australia steamrolls the opposition...yet again" or on similar lines. Nary a mention would have been made of the vanquished side. There's ever only one victor in sport. Hark back to that fateful semi final between SA and Australia in 1999. SA didn't even lose that match, it was a tie, but do you remember the back pages? "SA choke"... "Australia triumph under pressure"...."Aussies pull it off again". Did you hear anybody say, "Cricket has won"? Did anybody in the world press mouth platitudes like, " It's not Austalia or SA, it's cricket that triumphed today"? Did you read such stuff when England beat India 4-3 narrowly in the ODI series recently? No sir, you wouldn't have heard this kind of rubbish then. It suits the media to portray us as somewhat reluctant (read "fortuitously successful") winners. It also allows partisan and one eyed bloggers such as Kamran Abbasi to hail an occcasion such as this as a triumph for cricket when his team clearly choked in the face of a nerveless opposition, not once but twice. Had the shoe been in the other foot, rest assured, he would have mercilessly rubbed it in. He, and his fellow Pakistani scribe, Osman Saimuddin, never fail to point out India's poverty of fast bowlers and Pakistan's riches in that area as a reason for the latter's historical superiority. Even in the most fallow season for Pakistan, as the last year has been, they have not once been able to bring themselves to praise India's emerging fast bowlers, or their rapidly improving overseas record, so much superior to Pakistan's. Yet, go and read the stuff written by Sambit Bal or S Rajesh. Pakistan will always crop up, even as they rather diffidently bring themselves to praise the victors, which, almost embarassingly for them, happens to be their own nation..."Magnificent Misbah....Courageous Gul", as if they are conscious of enjoying some kind of guilty pleasure. Yes, it's the same lack of killer instinct that characterises some of my fellow posters on the forum. Or shall I call it a lack of self-esteem? When the opposition is down, grind their nose in the mud, destroy their self respect, so that the next time they stand up and dare face you, you can flatten them with a haymaker of a punch again. Then go off and enjoy your victory. You earned it. Don't live in trepidation about the cycle of Karma. And don't feel sorry for your opponent. He won't return the favour.

[Lurker]

Good read Dhondy. Are Indians magnanimous in victory? I think so yes. Is it because of our cultural background, maybe so. But I think it is more to do with what we have achieved. As a cricketing nation our achievements are not exactly top draw. Yes we have had such smashing moments but we have also have hit rock bottom. You can not really compare us to Aussies in this regard(and maybe I am just about proving your point here). Their record is stellar, in all the formats and hence more often than not a win by them ends up being thought of in their favour than for the opposition. What we need is consistency and I do think India is going to get more consistent now, specially with youth. xxx

[kablooee87]

Or maybe it's because they've been there....and they know better.

[Ram]

As much as every Indian fan has the right to celebrate the Indian victory in his own right , i have always believed that the real pedigree of a true champion lies being dignified in defeat and gracious in victory. And the justification that if Pak had won , they would have butchered us doesnt hold too much water either. Then, whats the difference between them and us ? We won , awesome. Its time to revel , rejoice. But surely , it doesnt leave a good taste to take one cheap shot after another at the vanquished. And the way you react to victory/defeat has got nothing to do with your competitive juices. Pete Sampras came into the court at the beginnning of the match with his head down. He left the court with his head down , irrespective of the result of the match. Its time to celebrate India's magnificient victory and the emerging talent of its youth, rather than being obsessed with someone else' grief. This is my humble two cents on this issue.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[DesiChap]

:two_thumbs_up:

[kumble_rocks]

Good Read but with all due respect beg to differ from your assessment. It' almost as if you are giving too much importance to scribes and yellow journalism and actually blame them for lack of killer instincts historically displayed by Indian players. Poster named Prudent was kind enough to provide headline screen shots of major newspapers in India and none of them would qualify as apologetic theme in my humble opinion. Although I would admit I didn't get a chance to read their contents. Nothing wrong in being magnanimous in victory. Heck , we have players like Roger Federer who throughly dominates tennis circuit and is magnanimous to a fault. Yet, does he lack killer instinct that characterises which you claim some of our fellow posters in the forum suffer from , hardly. Nothing wrong in enjoying our victory and no need to live in trepidation about the cycle of Karma. But license to give on your face celebration both to players and fans alike leaves bad blood and exhibits poor sportsmanship . Also in extreme case it can potentially have adverse repercussions , case in point the soccer war of 1969 between Hondurus and El Salvador.

[kumble_rocks]

Aahahahaaa ... the Doc does it again. I doubt there is any soul on the planet that would have said it better.

Jesus ! Bheem , looks like you got Doc converted !:giggle:

[Guest BossBhai]

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[theguyinallblue]

"A person should not be too honest. Straight trees are cut first and honest people are screwed first." Chanakya quotes (Indian politician, strategist and writer, 350 BC-275 BC)

[Bumper]

Jesus ! Bheem ' date= looks like you got Doc converted !:giggle:

That makes it a religious post , innit ? Should i delete it ?:haha:

[Guest BossBhai]

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[kumble_rocks]

That makes it a religious post ' date=' innit ? Should i delete it ?:haha:[/quote'] Bhaiya , I get accused of hijacking every thread . So please ignore my silly comment !:D

[Bumper]

Absolutely Dhondy! We beat the inventor of the game England, tournament favs South Africa, world champs Australia, the second best team of the tournament Pakistan TWICE. There was only ONE deserving winner in this competition and that was India. Going back to the Ind-Pak encounters, no matter how close the games were, the results were indeed a reflection of the GULF IN SKILL LEVEL. How can Pakistan losing twice in the same tournament in close games, be attributed to bad luck or poor shots ? They are mentally not even in the same street as India. Besidss, Pakistan had a relatively easy route to the finals. India OTOH, missed out on the Scotland game & faced elimination against Pakistan. Then they faced elimination in every game they played since the game vs England. This almost reminds me of 1999 Waugh team which had to win 7-8 games in a row to clinch the championship. This is no ordinary feat & India deservedly won the cup. If you take into account the fact that Pakistan was full of players who were well trained on 20/20 format & India had hardly played a game in this format, before the world cup, it shows you how BIG the gulf in skill level actually is. Pakistan should consider itself lucky that they competed well. They are second only to India, that should make them proud.

[Dhondy]

Nope, my point is not that we should behave like boors, but celebrate the performances of our players while pointing out the frailties of the opposition. To give an example, IMO, threads portraying Misbah as a choker are perfectly justified. He had victory in his reach, twice, and he couldn't grasp it. His emotions got the better of him. Afridi had been hyped as the better Pathan for ages by our neighbours. He was destroyed by our own Pathan. Worth celebrating. TIme to pay back the compliments in kind. Asif, the dope cheat, who had connived with his board to inject nandrolone into himself and get away scot free, shown up by RP Singh. The latter has demonstrated that you can bowl faster and more accurately and move it more...all without being dishonest. Worth celebrating. Did you hear any of the scribes point out Asif's tainted record when he took those four wickets against India? Yet, note the column inches written about Sreesanth's behaviour in England and the 20-20 WC. This is a man no whiff of scandal has ever touched. Yet he was being demonized for doing something that people like Shoaib Akhtar have been lauded as a macho man for. Remember the latter's garish send-offs to Hayden and Pietersen? We won because we were better than them. It's also fair to say they choked. We must never let them forget that. Not because we like to gloat, but because it'll destroy their confidence, create self-doubt and self-loathing in their hearts, and aid our cause when we square up the next time around. It'll also help if Indian scribes in positions of influence joined our cause. Sport is all about being ruthless. Until you retire. Then, you can be as magnanimous as you like.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Guest BossBhai]

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[Lurker]

Nope, my point is not that we should behave like boors, but celebrate the performances of our players while pointing out the frailties of the opposition. To give an example, IMO, threads portraying Misbah as a choker are perfectly justified. He had victory in his reach, twice, and he couldn't grasp it. His emotions got the better of him. Afridi had been hyped as the better Pathan for ages by our neighbours. He was destroyed by our own Pathan. Worth celebrating. TIme to pay back the compliments in kind. Asif, the dope cheat, who had connived with his board to inject nandrolone into himself and get away scot free, shown up by RP Singh. The latter has demonstrated that you can bowl faster and more accurately and move it more...all without being dishonest. Worth celebrating. Did you hear any of the scribes point out Asif's tainted record when he took those four wickets against India? Yet, note the column inches written about Sreesanth's behaviour in England and the 20-20 WC. This is a man no whiff of scandal has ever touched. Yet he was being demonized for doing something that people like Shoaib Akhtar have been lauded as a macho man for. Remember the latter's garish send-offs to Hayden and Pietersen? We won because we were better than them. It's also fair to say they choked. We must never let them forget that. Not because we like to gloat, but because it'll destroy their confidence, create self-doubt and self-loathing in their hearts, and aid our cause when we square up the next time around. It'll also help if Indian scribes in positions of influence joined our cause. Sport is all about being ruthless. Until you retire. Then, you can be as magnanimous as you like.

You will have to pardon me here but I am not quite sure how come you say what you say above but still had issues with Indian youngster lot being aggressive in that other thread? I see you mention Sreesanth and RP Singh, but from what I could glean you came across as being sensitive towards their behaviour. Whats the cause of this turnaround? Unless of course I misunderstood, then and now. xx

[fineleg]

There is a thin line between possessing killer instinct and being deriding/cheap. The former is a good quality, the latter is not. Many posts have crossed that line. If you calm down, and see you will see it. On the other hand, maybe you choose not to.

[Gambit]

There is a thin line between possessing killer instinct and being deriding/cheap. The former is a good quality, the latter is not. Many posts have crossed that line. If you calm down, and see you will see it. On the other hand, maybe you choose not to.

You are not battle scarred. You were not on SN. You will not understand why we do this. Let our cricketers be gracious in defeat and victory. As fans, we will do as they did unto us. The Pak fans deserve what they are getting and believe me, the stuff on here is pretty mild compared to what used to be dished out 2 years ago. Ask anyone who was on SN. Coming back to the OP, good writeup Dhondy as usual. Indian media has been quite gracious about the whole affair and has slightly downplayed our win. We absolutely outplayed Pak not once but twice and as bumper said, despite their players' experience in domestic 20/20 for 2+ years, we beat them not once but twice. Cricket was not the winner, India were. We are world champs because our world cup winning bunch outplayed Pak's 11 and not because Pak made mistakes or we were lucky. Nothing should stop us from shouting from the rooftops that WE, INDIA, ARE WORLD CHAMPIONS. Commiserations Pak but you simply choked.