The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why only THIS so called fake encounter is being investigated so earnestly by CBI and also the Gujju High Court? For example, UP tops the list in fake encounters...followed by Bihar... http://twocircles.net/2010mar26/uttar_pradesh_top_fake_encounter_specialist_india.html Will the Central Angency investigate all the controversial Fake Encounters now? I hope so... PS: Don't shoot me for posting a random link. I've no idea if the data is true or not. Why only Delhi rape case is being fast tracked when there are thousands of pending rape cases in India? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Wasn't the media? Everything is available on the net - a quick search can reveal the number of articles on it before the first protest. Here is the ICF thread created way before any protests which has many hundred posts and many media articles in it before the protests: http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=291587 And what's your point about people coming out in droves? Should only those injustices be discussed for which people come out in droves?I was only objecting to your comparison. The fact remains that the people of Delhi came out to denounce the Delhi govt and Delhi police's inaction, but these allegations have found no resonance with the people of Gujarat. Nobody is stopping any discussion, but then it is a legitimate argument that the narrative in the Ishrat Jahan case is entirely media driven, unlike the Delhi case with which you sought to compare it. Yeah, 17 years after the alleged incident the Gujarat government investigates him when he has been rubbing the government the wrong way - and you are concerned about how the investigation is being handled. Hats off!It is not the Gujarat govt but the High Court which has ordered the investigation. http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/1996-fake-encounter-gujarat-satish-verma-probe/1/185607.html . In any case, it is clearly prejudicial to appoint a police officer nominated by the family of Ishrat Jahan to investigate the case. Misled the court? Just because IB says so and are the ones under the pump you take them at face value? Not just the IB, but also the Union Home Ministry filed an affidavit in the court stating that the intelligence input was genuine. Now, the tapes of the conversations intercepted by the IB are also out. The NIA wilfully suppressed David Headley's testimony. You are concerned about the investigation, but are not concerned about the fact that Kodnani and Kumar were making dozens of calls to Modi's office the day of the crimes? Not concerned about the fact that a DIG has already been convicted for a fake encounter? Not concerned that he was linked with Modi's right hand man?No one has yet been convicted in these encounter cases. Also, Kodnani's case was handled by the SIT which is under the supervision of the Supreme Court's monitoring and is independent of the Gujarat govt. Lastly, Kumar had every reason to be in touch with the CMO (assuming this fact to be true), given that the intelligence was about an imminent threat to the CM's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why only Delhi rape case is being fast tracked when there are thousands of pending rape cases in India? Are you suggesting that the Govt. is under some pressure like the Delhi Rape case to investigate this particular encounter? BTW, don't know how 'fast track' is the Delhi Rape Case...You reckon it's moving at a very phaast pace? Also why this fake encounter was never investigated by CBI? http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kashmir-fake-encounter-lt-gen-bikram-singh-faces-attack/1/184348.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why only Delhi rape case is being fast tracked when there are thousands of pending rape cases in India?Not true, several rape cases have been fast tracked in the past. Some of these cases have been completed much faster than the Delhi case. This is from an article from 2006: The ball was set rolling with the conviction of the two accused by a fast track court in Rajasthan last year. The case was filed by a 47 year old German tourist, and the conviction was received within days. This was followed by a ghastly rape case in Mumbai by Sushil More, a police constable, who raped a young girl in Marine Lines, unsettling the belief in the security and safety of women in Mumbai. The accused was given a sentence of 13 years within a span of six months. The most recent conviction in a fast track court in Alwar, Rajasthan took only 22 days. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2006-04-28/man-woman/27812756_1_japanese-tourist-foreign-tourist-rapes Delhi has been a laggard in fast track courts and convictions. Only after the Dec 16 case and all the outrage have things started to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted June 18, 2013 Author Share Posted June 18, 2013 Tell me what you make of it: I assume you haven't heard much about our evidence act 1862? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I was only objecting to your comparison. The fact remains that the people of Delhi came out to denounce the Delhi govt and Delhi police's inaction, but these allegations have found no resonance with the people of Gujarat. Nobody is stopping any discussion, but then it is a legitimate argument that the narrative in the Ishrat Jahan case is entirely media driven, unlike the Delhi case with which you sought to compare it. Your objection makes no sense because I gave that example to explain how certain cases receive more publicity and media attention than others and it has nothing to do with the media hounding someone, but with the individual circumstances surrounding the particular case and also listed down 5 points as to why the Ishrat case is not any random extra judicial killing. It is not the Gujarat govt but the High Court which has ordered the investigation. http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/1996-fake-encounter-gujarat-satish-verma-probe/1/185607.html . And you don't find anything suspicious with the Gujarat High Court ordering an investigation 17 years after the event against someone who has been a pain for Modi. Various cases have been moved out of Gujarat for the fear that the judiciary will be compromised by Modi's government - so much for the credibility of the Gujarat High Court. In any case, it is clearly prejudicial to appoint a police officer nominated by the family of Ishrat Jahan to investigate the case. What was the nomination process followed? Not just the IB, but also the Union Home Ministry filed an affidavit in the court stating that the intelligence input was genuine. Now, the tapes of the conversations intercepted by the IB are also out. The NIA wilfully suppressed David Headley's testimony. No one has yet been convicted in these encounter cases. Also, Kodnani's case was handled by the SIT which is under the supervision of the Supreme Court's monitoring and is independent of the Gujarat govt. Word of one agency against another. No conclusive proof to show Ishrat was a terrorist, not that it's relevant. I am referring to the DIG in the Sohrabuddin case who is an accused here as well. Lastly, Kumar had every reason to be in touch with the CMO (assuming this fact to be true), given that the intelligence was about an imminent threat to the CM's life. That's assuming Ishrat is a terrorist of which there is no conclusive proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Are you suggesting that the Govt. is under some pressure like the Delhi Rape case to investigate this particular encounter? BTW, don't know how 'fast track' is the Delhi Rape Case...You reckon it's moving at a very phaast pace? Also why this fake encounter was never investigated by CBI? http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kashmir-fake-encounter-lt-gen-bikram-singh-faces-attack/1/184348.html I don't know about pressure, but refer to Post # 186 for 5 points why this is not your average encounter killing case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 There are lots of fake encounters happened in India. Why is the media so keen on this case alone? They hate modi , don't they? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Not true, several rape cases have been fast tracked in the past. Some of these cases have been completed much faster than the Delhi case. This is from an article from 2006: No need to take things too literally. The larger point is that very few cases get high visibility and prominence whether they are rape, murder, or encounter killing. And the reason why this encounter killing deserves prominence is given in post #186, in how it differs from the average encounter killing case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I assume you haven't heard much about our evidence act 1862? No, I haven't. But I assume you have a problem understanding a statement in simple English by the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't know about pressure' date=' but refer to Post # 186 for 5 points why this is not your average encounter killing case.[/quote'] Then what about this encounter in which the current Army chief is alleged to be involved? http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kashmir-fake-encounter-lt-gen-bikram-singh-faces-attack/1/184348.html Not big enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Word of one agency against another. No conclusive proof to show Ishrat was a terrorist, not that it's relevant. I am referring to the DIG in the Sohrabuddin case who is an accused here as well. That's assuming Ishrat is a terrorist of which there is no conclusive proof.So what evidence is required then to accept that the intelligence input disseminated by the IB official was genuine and not malafide ? The IB official cannot bring the LeT bosses to testify in the court. They have to rely on other proof such as phone intercepts, but by law these intercepts gathered by the IB are not acceptable as evidence in the court. The NIA has chosen to suppress David Headley's testimony which could corroborate the IB intelligence input. The Union Home ministry has chosen to flip flop on this issue. In this situation, how does the IB official defend himself ? He cannot reveal his sources of intelligence within pakistan either. He is completely without any legal protection. Therefore, to implicate the IB official the CBI should have to conclusively prove that the intelligence input was definitely and obviously concocted and bogus. This does not seem to be the case, and to pursue this line of inquiry will anyway be beyond the competence of the CBI as it could lead to exposing covert assets within pakistan. Note: No one has been convicted in the Sohrabuddin encounter case either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Then what about this encounter in which the current Army chief is alleged to be involved? http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kashmir-fake-encounter-lt-gen-bikram-singh-faces-attack/1/184348.html Not big enough? Certainly not big enough as Modi and with hardly any credibility to it given it was filed 11 years after the supposed incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 And that is why justice and such decisions are not left to the ones effected by events personally. If that were the case even thefts, assault, and robbery would lead to capital punishment. That is the reason justice is carried out by the state and not effected individuals who would be emotionally swayed by the situation. And now to flip it around, what would these people who got their family members released in lieu of terrorists say to the families of the hundreds or thousands of family members of people who were killed by these terrorists after they were released. That my blood is greater than yours? When a country release terrorists , it is an assumption that they will kill people in future.What if the country tightens security and gun down those terrorists later.But hostages were sureshot to be killed.. So what is good option releasing terrorists and tighten security or letting all hostages killed.No sensible country can allow its citizens to be killed because of assumption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted June 19, 2013 Author Share Posted June 19, 2013 No' date=' I haven't. But I assume you have a problem understanding a statement in simple English by the court.[/quote'] Well, if you had that knowledge, you wouldn't have wrote that. It's a natural part of the law and will certainly take its course. And as stated, CBI has said that it has to all be reexamined. Now whether its happens now or later, is a whole different matter but there is no doubt that it should happen. So Mr Outy gets to decide if a case is big enough and if the evidence is credible. Great work there.:haha: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumi Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 this thread is becoming a joke, trying to prove a terrorist is innocent for the sake of scoring political points, no wonder india is such an easy target from Islamic extremists to left-wing communists naxashals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Well, if you had that knowledge, you wouldn't have wrote that. It's a natural part of the law and will certainly take its course. And as stated, CBI has said that it has to all be reexamined. Now whether its happens now or later, is a whole different matter but there is no doubt that it should happen. So Mr Outy gets to decide if a case is big enough and if the evidence is credible. Great work there.:haha: Should a bunch of nuts on ICF poll for it then? It's not Outsider but the HC which has decided that this case is of "national importance". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Should a bunch of nuts on ICF poll for it then? It's not Outsider but the HC which has decided that this case is of "national importance". You need to check out the profiles of the HC Judges who are "earnestly" involved in this case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 There is no doubt this issue should be investigated and it is high profile as many top officials involved. However, I would focus my investigation on whether Isharat was innocent or not rather than whether encounter was fake or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 You need to check out the profiles of the HC Judges who are "earnestly" involved in this case... Your concern is very well appreciated but every second thing here which goes against the Gujarat government is dumped as kaanspiracy theory. I am sure people will find a problem with the Metropolitan Magistrate SP Tamang including the NIA, SIT and CBI. Sometime earlier in this thread CBI investigation was made out to be as another kaanspiracy to derail Modi's election role elevation in the BJP. This, despite evidence to the contrary and CBI had started his investigation months before Modi was given that status. IF I'm not wrong, CBI has categorically stated that they have not unearthed any evidence to link Narendra Modi to the encounter. I wonder what the kaanspiracy theorists have to say now. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/cbi-quizzes-ib-officer-in-ishrat-encounter-case-no-narendra-modi-links-yet/articleshow/20655683.cms On one hand - people sing of "independent investigation" tunes and dump the reports upheld by the HC but same people do not have problem in quoting IB official who FFS is under question for his role in the extra judicial killing of Ishrat. The problem is cherry picking investigations, evidences to conveniently suit the conclusion one has already made in his mind. Any evidence against that conclusion becomes kaanspiracy while any evidence for that conclusion is Bhagwad Gita and any person supporting the conclusion becomes the next incarnation of Jesus Christ whose word is sacrosanct to the T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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