Wimbledon 2013

[India-KXIP fan]

Should retire after Aus Open 14'.

[adi B]

the problem now he`ll face is that he has lost almost 2000 points now and unless he wins the USO he will most likely finish outside top4 at the end of the year which will make his draws more difficult..tbh i had this feeling he wont win the wimby this time,hopefully some new guy wins it maybe JMDP but i feel USO is his only chance to win his last GS ,off course if the court plays fast (which is a rarity nowadays).. roger likes the fast HC,i believe his only roadblock will be power hitters and djokovic

[cowboysfan]

there are no players like Henin anymore,those jitterbugs who move exceptionally well give Serena the most trouble.

[zep1706]

The courts are getting slower and slower

That's baloney.

[zakk]

:((

[Yoda-esque]

That's baloney.

Mind expanding?

[adi B]

That's baloney.

thats a plain fact

[zep1706]

Mind expanding?

I am only going to talk about the Grand Slams, cause at the end of the day that is what matters the most in tennis. French Open-- Clay--always been playing the same. US Open------- Hard court-- Deco Turf which is one of the faster hard court surfaces, they have been using the same surface for the last few decades, they changed the color of the inner court in 2005 but it's still the same surface and plays pretty much the same way. Aus Open----- Always been a slow high bouncing hard court. It used to be rebound ace before; they changed it to plexi-cushion in 2008. Both of those surfaces are slow. Wimbledon--- They changed the composition of the grass and the hardness of the surface in 2001 to protect the grass in the second week and there has been no change since then. That change in 2001 made it more bouncy, which helps the players to play from the baseline. But it's still grass and it's still significantly different from all other surfaces and as Sergiy Stakhovsky showed the other day if you are good at Serve and Volley you can still do it effectively on grass. But sadly no one is good at it anymore to do it consistently for 7 matches. The point is the courts just don't get slower and slower automatically. With the advent of new synthetic strings players are now able to hit better returns and better shots from the baseline with more topspin. They are also physically fitter to track down most balls. An attacking serve and volley game don't offer the same benefit outside grass anymore. Hence nobody practices it. The idea of slower courts, especially in Grand Slams is more of a perceived one than a fact. You put Goran Ivanisevic and Pete Sampras in any of these courts, it will look like the fastest court on earth, whereas you put Djokovic vs Nadal on the centre court of Wimbledon in 1998, it will look like the slowest ever.

[Yoda-esque]

I am only going to talk about the Grand Slams, cause at the end of the day that is what matters the most in tennis. French Open-- Clay--always been playing the same. US Open------- Hard court-- Deco Turf which is one of the faster hard court surfaces, they have been using the same surface for the last few decades, they changed the color of the inner court in 2005 but it's still the same surface and plays pretty much the same way. Aus Open----- Always been a slow high bouncing hard court. It used to be rebound ace before; they changed it to plexi-cushion in 2008. Both of those surfaces are slow. Wimbledon--- They changed the composition of the grass and the hardness of the surface in 2001 to protect the grass in the second week and there has been no change since then. That change in 2001 made it more bouncy, which helps the players to play from the baseline. But it's still grass and it's still significantly different from all other surfaces and as Sergiy Stakhovsky showed the other day if you are good at Serve and Volley you can still do it effectively on grass. But sadly no one is good at it anymore to do it consistently for 7 matches. The point is the courts just don't get slower and slower automatically. With the advent of new synthetic strings players are now able to hit better returns and better shots from the baseline with more topspin. They are also physically fitter to track down most balls. An attacking serve and volley game don't offer the same benefit outside grass anymore. Hence nobody practices it. The idea of slower courts, especially in Grand Slams is more of a perceived one than a fact. You put Goran Ivanisevic and Pete Sampras in any of these courts, it will look like the fastest court on earth, whereas you put Djokovic vs Nadal on the centre court of Wimbledon in 1998, it will look like the slowest ever.

You could not be more wrong . http://www.fawcette.net/2012/02/hard-courts-fast-clay-slow-not-so-much-.html Theres a reason double handers are dominating the circuit. But when courts are faster (indoor carpets or Wimby with the roof), even a 31 year old Fed can defeat Djokovic and Murray.

[zep1706]

You could not be more wrong . http://www.fawcette.net/2012/02/hard-courts-fast-clay-slow-not-so-much-.html Theres a reason double handers are dominating the circuit. But when courts are faster (indoor carpets or Wimby with the roof), even a 31 year old Fed can defeat Djokovic and Murray.

I have read that blog about a year ago as I am an avid follower of tennis since the late '90s. It's a prime example of Cherry Picking. It's so stupid that I don't even want to go to that. Posting a close-up pic of the worn out grass of the baseline, I mean wtf? This is from the last year's final, do you see it's full of grass where the ball actually bounces? That guy probably hasn't even seen a single match from the '90s. If he has either he is incredibly stupid or he has an agenda. The grass used to wear out more then, because of the composition and the fact that players used to come to the net more often. That is the reason why they changed the grass composition. Try to address the points I have raised instead. And that BBC video comparing 2 serves does not serve as any proof. It's a statistical disaster to put it mildly, not to mention various other factors that can influence the results. Federer is one of the greatest players on grass court for a reason; he showed why he is so in the semi final and the final last year. For all you know he could have been knocked out by Benneteau in 3rd round under roof, he was lucky to survive that. Those are not proofs of anything. He is also the best player of his generation on indoor courts. It gives him the freedom to hit through the line because of consistent bounce and no external factors. Indoor environments don't make the courts faster suddenly. The London O2 arena where he has won 5 WTF titles is not a fast court either, but it's a low bouncing one though. Bounce and speed are two separate things.

[zep1706]

A person who probably knows the Wimbledon courts better than anyone else in the world says this, I would take his words over anyone else on this matter. Eddie Seaward, the head groundsman at the All England Club on the speed of the court: “I don’t think the grass has slowed down. The ball still comes off the grass at the same speed. But, as the courts are a bit harder, the ball bounces a bit higher. The courts are a bit harder because of the grasses we use, and also because we prepare them that way. We wanted the hardness because we wanted the courts to be in just as good shape on day 13 as one day one, and that’s what we’ve got. If the ball comes at you at knee height at 140mph, you’ve got no chance or returning it. If it comes at you at chest height, you’ve got much more chance of getting the ball back into play. That’s why we’re getting the rallies.”

[Yoda-esque]

A person who probably knows the Wimbledon courts better than anyone else in the world says this, I would take his words over anyone else on this matter. Eddie Seaward, the head groundsman at the All England Club on the speed of the court: “I don’t think the grass has slowed down. The ball still comes off the grass at the same speed. But, as the courts are a bit harder, the ball bounces a bit higher. The courts are a bit harder because of the grasses we use, and also because we prepare them that way. We wanted the hardness because we wanted the courts to be in just as good shape on day 13 as one day one, and that’s what we’ve got. If the ball comes at you at knee height at 140mph, you’ve got no chance or returning it. If it comes at you at chest height, you’ve got much more chance of getting the ball back into play. That’s why we’re getting the rallies.”

You can believe whatever you want to, but the fact is that courts are definitely slower and have been getting slower. Eddie Seaward cannot measure the ball speed with the naked eye and he definitely does not play on Center court. By his own admission : “The ball comes off the same speed, but I think it comes a little bit higher,” he said. “So you get a little bit higher bounce.” What is the difference? About a tenth of a second, Seaward calculated. This may seem insignificant to fans and ordinary players, but not to the world’s top players. They noticed that the soil, seeded with a strain of rye grass that allows the sun to dry the ground more deeply, had changed the speed of play. Twenty years ago, the ball traveled from Stefan Edberg’s racket to Boris Becker’s a tenth of a second faster. So Tomas Berdych had a split second longer to read Federer’s serves in their quarterfinal matchup this year. Federer had the same benefit, of course, on Berdych’s serves. In its way, this barely perceptible lengthening of points, Seaward said, may have helped prevent the elimination of grass-court tournaments from the international circuit, a prospect that he said loomed in the 1990s." And we aren't just talking about Wimbledon here. The AO has gotten much slower as well. If you have been following tennis since the 90s, I have been doing the same since the 80s. And Federer has won 6 WTF titles, only two of which are in London.

[zep1706]

Eddie Seaward cannot measure the ball speed with the naked eye and he definitely does not play on Center court.

Yeah and you would know!

By his own admission : “The ball comes off the same speed, but I think it comes a little bit higher,” he said. “So you get a little bit higher bounce.” What is the difference? About a tenth of a second, Seaward calculated.

My point, the change is in the bounce not speed. The speed change is a perceived one, that is a player gets more time to play it because of the higher bounce and apparently he also calculated it as one tenth of a second, it's not just his naked eye as you say. And pray tell why the courts are getting slower and slower. That was my original point of contention. They changed the surface in 2001 and I know that there has been a change in playing conditions but it's not getting slower every year as you said earlier.

And we aren't just talking about Wimbledon here. The AO has gotten much slower as well.

AO has always been slower, it was slower even in the '90s. That is why Sampras wasn't so successful there and that is the only GS where he was beaten by Agassi, twice. It may have slowed down a little bit more, but it's not continuous slowing process as you say. They changed the surface in 2008 and it's the same since then. Please let us know why a hard court would get slower and slower every year. They don't change the court every year. That article you posted earlier ranks AO as the slowest major and USO as the fastest, isn't it kind of surprising that Nadal has the same success in both? One would have thought Nadal would be as successful at slow AO as he is at RG.

If you have been following tennis since the 90s, I have been doing the same since the 80s.

I was born in 1987, that's the best I could do.

[zep1706]

Talking about slams I don't see Federer winning any slam outside grass again if he has to go though Novak, Nadal and Murray now that he won't be in top 4 in the near future. He has not been the same player since 2010 and the other 3 have also gotten better, especially Novak and Murray; Nadal always had his number. He has won 1 slam out of the last 12 and that is very telling. It will also be very interesting to see how Nadal's knees hold up outside clay. He has just turned 27, so if he can play another 2-3 seasons regularly, which is a big if, I think he has a couple of slams in him outside clay. Novak is still his main opponent on hard courts for me. If he gets lucky like Federer in 2009 French Open he can still win on hard courts given his knees last.

[zep1706]

Ha ha ha I just read the first couple pages of this thread, it's so funny to read the reactions of the Fed fanboys after Nadal's loss, looks like karma came back to bite them in the ****. :hysterical: :hysterical:

[Raghav_12]

Ha ha ha I just read the first couple pages of this thread' date=' it's so funny to read the reactions of the Fed fanboys after Nadal's loss, looks like karma came back to bite them in the ****. :hysterical: :hysterical:[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical: But I didn't any Nadal fan celebrating Federer's loss with same exuberance.

[Yoda-esque]

Yeah and you would know! My point, the change is in the bounce not speed. The speed change is a perceived one, that is a player gets more time to play it because of the higher bounce and apparently he also calculated it as one tenth of a second, it's not just his naked eye as you say. And pray tell why the courts are getting slower and slower. That was my original point of contention. They changed the surface in 2001 and I know that there has been a change in playing conditions but it's not getting slower every year as you said earlier. AO has always been slower, it was slower even in the '90s. That is why Sampras wasn't so successful there and that is the only GS where he was beaten by Agassi, twice. It may have slowed down a little bit more, but it's not continuous slowing process as you say. They changed the surface in 2008 and it's the same since then. Please let us know why a hard court would get slower and slower every year. They don't change the court every year. That article you posted earlier ranks AO as the slowest major and USO as the fastest, isn't it kind of surprising that Nadal has the same success in both? One would have thought Nadal would be as successful at slow AO as he is at RG. I was born in 1987, that's the best I could do.

The players playing in Center court would know. Marat Safin on the Wimbledon courts (2008): I played well because I think the courts, they has been getting slower and slower throughout the years. So it’s not any more like they used to be like eight years ago. It was really fast, and now you can play from the baseline and nobody even getting close to the net. Mikhail Youzhny on Wimbledon and ATP surfaces (2008): Yeah, now it’s all courts slower than it was before. We don’t have now fast surface, only one tournament what I know, one tournament on the grass where it was fast. Now the tournament is surface slower and slower. Martina Navratilova on the slower surfaces in tennis and Wimbledon (2006): (center court): It doesn’t feel that slow. I feel like the slice bites. The slice stays low. But the topspin doesn’t. Yeah, it’s slower. I think it is slower. (other events): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything’s slower. All the courts are slower. I mean, Indian Wells, forget about it. You hit a great volley and, you know, the person’s got five minutes to run it down and hit it by you. So it’s frustrating, yeah. You can’t play a normal game. It should be equal. A great serve and volleyer – of the same ability – should play against a great baseliner and it’s like half and half. Half the time this one, and half the time that one. So on this court, this one’s slightly favored; on this court, that one’s slightly favored. Now the ball has gone completely in favor of the baseliner. It’s a shame. When bounce changes, so does the speed. Time taken by ball to reach A to B is more. Michael Llodra on Wimbledon Center court speed (2010): No, it’s slow. It’s not quick like usual. But, you know, it’s not the question today, you know, if it’s fast or slow. I mean, couple years ago it was faster for sure. AO is even slower than it was before.

[kumar713]

Mahesh Bhupathi & Leander Paes are both through to the Third Round of the Men's Doubles

[zep1706]

@Yoda-esque You failed to address even a single point that I have raised so far. I have read all of those comments from the players way before. I have already said a number of times that courts are slower than the '90s, in a sense that players get more time to play. It is a fact the changes they have made in 2001 made them so at Wimbledon. In 2002 two baseliners played in the final may be for the first time ever. I am not contesting that at all. My point is whatever change happened to Wimbledon happened in 2001, In 2006 Federer himself said that he didn't feel it any different than 2001 when he beat Sampras. Remember Nadal played in the final then. In 2010 Nadal said the courts have played the same way ever since he started playing at Wimbledon. I am ready to agree with you that AO may have slowed down even more, but they made that change in 2008 itself and it's been the same since then. My point is it's not getting slower every day. There is no logic to that. For the nth time give a valid explanation as to why the courts are getting slower and slower every year when there hasn't been any change made on them. I have an open mind to accept new ideas. Courts outside the slams have indeed gotten slower on average. There is no carpet less indoor etc. BTW Indian Wells and Miami were never fast hard courts.

[zep1706]

Also do you see how inconsistent players' opinions are-- 2006-- Navratilova-->slow, Federer-->same as 2001. Marat Safin 2008-- "So it’s not any more like they used to be like eight years ago" -- I have already agreed to that. It's not the same as the '90s because they made a change in 2001. Youzhny--2008--"Yeah, now it’s all courts slower than it was before." What do you mean by before? Nadal--2010---Same speed since he started. Lodra--2010-- Slower than a couple of years ago, so it was faster in 2008?