Was Viv Richards only 2nd to Bradman at his best?

[Harsh Thakor]

Viv Richards tore the greatest of pace bowling attacks with the ferocity of a tiger tearing flesh or the impact of a bomber raiding an airbase.True he played for a great team and did not have to face the great Carribean pace quartet but remember how in full flowhe devoured the like sof Lillee,Thomson or Imran Kan.In the 1st season in Packer cricket he ruled the cricket world more than nay batsman since Bradman while in the 1976 summer it is even difficult imagining Bradman surpassing Viv's domination when he ammassed 829 runs.Even the Don did not posess Viv's reflexes or equal ability to devour great pace bowling. However if you go by statistics then both Tendulkar,Lara ,Kallis and Ponting are ahead or arguably even Rahul Dravid ,Gary Sobers or George Headley from an earlier era.Infact Greg Chappell has a better batting average in that era .In matches won Greg Chappell,Ricky Ponting,Brian Lara.Inzamam Ul Haq,Rahul Dravid,Gordon Greenidge and Sachin Tendulkar have better batting averages all have better batting averages .Infact Viv averages above 60 in matches drawn and around 52 in games won.Several great batsman like Jack Hobbs,Len Hutton,Gordon Greenidge,Rohan Kanhai,Greg Chappell or Ricky Ponting averaged more in games won than drawnHowever viv Playing for such a strong team made the difference and Viv had scored a greater percentage of his total runs in wins than many all-time greats. In their peak period Ponting,Lara and Tendulkar were better statistically but never forget that stats hardly described Viv Richard's true domination.In that era very few batsmen averaged around 50,while in the modern era atleast twice as many average above 50 with the pitches more placid and bowling attacks weaker. Instead of averaging around 60 which Viv did in the peak of his career he would have averaged around 66 if he batted today.Greg Chappel benefited from several not outs but even at his best Greg would not tear apart great bowling in the manner of Viv.In Packet Cricket Barry Richards averaged 79 against Viv's 55 but agin Viv amassed more run and even Barry could not match Viv's overall performance in the1977-78 season of World series Packer Cricket. Overall I don't thinkSunil Gavaskar,Walter Hammond,Len Hutton Gary Sobers,Everton Weekes , or even Tendulkar,Lara and Ponting could morally be Viv Richard's equal at his peak.Only Don Bradman and arguably Jack Hobbs or George Headley played better at their peak. Viv Richards in Tests Matches Innings Runs Average 100s 50s Overall 121 182 8540 50.23 24 45 1974-1980 40 63 3629 60.48 11 16 1981-1988 62 89 3933 47.38 12 19 1989- 1991 19 30 978 36.22 1 10 Viv Richards in World Series Cricket Matches Innings Runs Average 100 50 14 25 1281 58.23 4 4 Richards' best years were between 1976 and 1988. In 92 Tests during this period he scored 22 hundreds and was the only batsman to average more than 55 (among those who scored more than 4000). That was an era when several all-time greats were around - Greg Chappell, Allan Border, Sunil Gavaskar and Javed Miandad are all listed in the table below - but Richards' average was marginally higher than theirs (though he obviously didn't have to face his own bowlers, who were easily the most fearsome attack during that period). He averaged more than 50 in 13 out of the 23 series he played during this period. Performance of top batsmen in Tests between 1976 and 1988 (Qual: 4000 runs) Batsman Matches Innings Runs Average 100 50 Viv Richards 92 135 7091 55.39 22 34 Greg Chappell 50 87 4233 54.97 13 18 Javed Miandad 95 146 7033 54.94 19 35 Allan Border 100 175 7670 52.17 23 35 Sunil Gavaskar 108 180 8655 51.51 29 36 Gordon Greenidge 83 139 6025 48.58 14 30 The table below summarises Richards' career series averages. Of the 29 series he played, 14 times he averaged more than 50, and less than 30 on just seven occasions, most of them coming either during the early years or at the end. Viv Richards' series averages Total no. of series Ave > 70 Ave between 50-70 Ave between 40-50 Ave between 30-40 Ave < 30 29 5 9 3 5 7 Of the 24 Test hundreds he scored, 12 were in wins. Between 1974 and 1991, which is when Richards played his 121 Tests, only Greenidge scored more centuries in wins. Richards also averaged nearly 54 with six centuries in away wins. Unlike some batsmen who struggle to score in the last innings of Tests, his stats were remarkably consistent over the four innings of a match: his average in the first innings of matches was 53, while his average in the fourth innings was nearly 48, which represents one of the lowest variations among top batsmen. (Click here for his career summary.) Richards saved his best for England, against whom he scored 2869 runs at an average of over 62 with eight centuries. Among those who've scored at least 2000 runs against England, only Don Bradman has a higher average. Richards also leads the list of batsmen with the mosthundreds against India - he added seven more to the century he scored in his second Test. His most destructive knock against them, though, was arguably in Kingston in 1983, when he scored a rapid 61 off 36 balls to lead West Indies to an unlikely win; his fifty came off just 32 balls in that innings. Richards batted at various positions during his career but was at his best at the pivotal No. 3 spot. Of all the batsmen who've played a minimum of 50 innings in that position, only Bradman and Wally Hammond have a higher average. Best Test batsmen at No. 3 (Qual: 50 innings) Batsman Matches Innings Runs Average 100s 50s Don Bradman 40 56 5078 103.63 20 10 Walter Hammond 37 52 3440 74.78 14 4 Viv Richards 45 59 3508 61.54 12 14 Brian Lara 45 66 3749 60.46 9 13 Kumar Sangakkara 84 131 7355 60.28 22 31 In the 1985-86 home series against England, which West Indies won 5-0, Richards smashed the fastest Test century, off just 56 balls, in Antigua, which remains the quickest in terms of balls faced. He stands fourth on the all-time list of batsmen with the most sixes in Tests. Richards took over the West Indies captaincy following Clive Lloyd's retirement in 1985 and led them in 50 Tests, winning 27 and losing 15, but more importantly he didn't lose a single series. Among captains who have led in a minimum of 50 Tests, Richards' record as captain is next only to Steve Waugh's and Ricky Ponting's.

[goose]

Isn't it time you Packet in?

[Deleted_User_1]

Oye Harsh ki bachhe, ki haal hain saale?

[Trichromatic]

No, Viv was better

[G_B_]

Harsh does wrtie good posts. but there is just no response from him. Its as if a bot is posting.

[goose]

Is it even possible to write authoritatively on so many great batsman? Most people struggle to do a job on Tendulkar's 24 year career never mind past greats.

[fineleg]

K3YCMvgwqTo

[Asim]

Harsh Thakor Total Posts: 34 Thread Started: 31 Can anyone quote his other 3 Golden Posts he made in 1 year?

[Mornantau]

Why didnt the whole world compare Viv to Don or Viv to the contmeporary ATGs like they compared Sachin to Don so many times ? So many experts kept saying Tendu's probably in the same class as Don but I never heard the same abt Viv. I just want to know why ? not that I am belittling Viv or anything. Actually I didnt watch lot of cricket back then thats why I am not able to place Viv on personal judgement.

[vvvslaxman]

This thread is another offspring of "players at their peak" thread. You could merge them i suppose. They are all same.. in different flavors.

[Jersey #10]

Don Bradman is only 2nd to Sachin Tendulkar at his best. kthnxbi

[Mornantau]

Agreed

[Pagalpanti]

Did Don Bradman have anything to say about Viv? :hmmm:

[Mornantau]

not that I've heard of . There is a v interesting comparison b/w Don n Tend on this site though.... Part 1 http://deepanjoshi.com/ashes-to-ashes-dust-to-dust/tendulkar-and-bradman-beyond-the-average-argument/ Part 2 http://deepanjoshi.com/ashes-to-ashes-dust-to-dust/tendulkar-and-bradman-beyond-the-average-argument-2/

[virufan]

I have not seen Viv bat. How was he against the moving ball in England, bouncing ball in Australia and spinning ball in India??

[Mornantau]

Good question. Are his best innings against moving ball or spinners or express pace available on Youtube or some DVDs or somthing so we can watch n do a like for like comparison with Tendu. I think the experts generally try to refer to the past greats as better than present but modrn day cricket is not short of its challenges. we shud place tendulkar 5 - 10 best innings against Viv's n Lara's 5 - 10 best innings and then do a like for like comparison on commonly agreed factors like 1) technique 2) ability to handle pressure in a difficult situation (odds against u n all) 3) Ability to dominate the attack 4) Aesthetic appeal (good to watch) 5) resilience in coping with agression (like getting hit by bouncer n still comeback) 6) quality of oppositiion attack 7) difficult easy pitch conditions 8) contribution to team score Any others u consider important for a great batsman. I think these things wud define a gr8 bat at his peak.

[Robelinda]

Viv got hit by a bouncer in Melbourne, 1979, next ball out of the ground. Famous shot. Its in the Fire In Babylon documentary. Viv only ever got hit on the head twice in his whole life.

[Tapioca]

Viv only ever got hit on the head twice in his whole life.

I think your collection has videos of Imran and Waugh knocking him on the head. Do you mean that they are the only instances ?

[Robelinda]

Nope neither hit him in the head. Greg Chappell in WSC hit him, and Hogg in 1979, are the only two, i *think*.

[Tapioca]

Yup. Waugh hits him on the shoulder with a beamer. Couldn't find the IK one that I was thinking of.