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Indian deputy consul general arrested in US on visa fraud charges

maniac

By maniac
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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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So now you pretend to not even understand plain English. This is the opening of Article 31: Clearly, the immunity from criminal proceedings is without any exception. The only exception is for civil proceedings regarding some professional and business dealings. Our diplomat has been deliberately arrested in clear violation of Article 31 of the convention.
Lets stay clear of who's pretending what because if I play that card there will be a problem. I think you are right but what do you think about the attorney's comment?
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Ram Newbie

Ram

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Diplomatic immunity is the politically correct way of saying 'I can kill somebody and still get out of the country safely on the next flight..'.. Remember what happened to the US diplomat whose vehicle ran nto a couple of Pakistani pedestrians on the street and killed them and still was sent to the US..

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Malcolm Merlyn Collaborator

Malcolm Merlyn

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Lets withdraw the immunity of US personnels as well.To hell with them.They cant keep arresting Indian diplomats or their families. The domestic help has proceedings pending againist her in Delhi and has a warrant againist her name and is absconding. The Preet Bharara guy just wants to make his name by going after Indians. I hope the diplomat is released and this Bharara is made to look like an IDIOT.

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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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Lets stay clear of who's pretending what because if I play that card there will be a problem. I think you are right but what do you think about the attorney's comment?
Not much. The text of the Vienna convention is pretty clear and unambiguous. The problem arises when law enforcement disregards the convention to impress their local constituency. This is not the first such case, and eventually it will also be settled outside the court. Most probably she will be asked to leave her position in the US. However, the manner in which she was arrested (she is the acting Consul General in New York) is definitely a very public insult.
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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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Diplomatic immunity is the politically correct way of saying 'I can kill somebody and still get out of the country safely on the next flight..'.. Remember what happened to the US diplomat whose vehicle ran nto a couple of Pakistani pedestrians on the street and killed them and still was sent to the US..
Not the first time US has displayed hypocrisy. Although in the Raymond Davis case, he escaped because a substantial blood money was paid to the victims' families.
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Ram Newbie

Ram

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Not the first time US has displayed hypocrisy. Although in the Raymond Davis case' date=' he escaped because a substantial blood money was paid to the victims' families.[/quote'] Not to mention the various instances of US military personnel accused of sexually assaulting women in places like Iraq/Afghanistan etc or the Blackwater guys who randomly went around shooting Afghani civilians in a market but were tried in the US.. These guys dont even have diplomatic immunity, but the US still found a way to get them out of the other countries. Either ways, if the Indian diplomat has committed a crime, she has to be prosecuted. The question is where? An arrest for this non-violent crime seems a bit excessive to me. And to those who do not know Preet Bharara well - Please stop spouting ignorant comments. He's stand-up attorney who his on his way to bigger and better things. Forget foreign diplomats, he has been going agaisnt hi-powered Wall street guys with vigor. Besides, he just pressed charges against nearly 50+ Russian diplomats for medicare fraud less than like 10 days ago.
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Malcolm Merlyn Collaborator

Malcolm Merlyn

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Not to mention the various instances of US military personnel accused of sexually assaulting women in places like Iraq/Afghanistan etc or the Blackwater guys who randomly went around shooting Afghani civilians in a market but were tried in the US.. These guys dont even have diplomatic immunity, but the US still found a way to get them out of the other countries. Either ways, if the Indian diplomat has committed a crime, she has to be prosecuted. The question is where? An arrest for this non-violent crime seems a bit excessive to me. And to those who do not know Preet Bharara well - Please stop spouting ignorant comments. He's stand-up attorney who his on his way to bigger and better things. Forget foreign diplomats, he has been going agaisnt hi-powered Wall street guys with vigor. Besides, he just pressed charges against nearly 50+ Russian diplomats for medicare fraud less than like 10 days ago.
Where the Russian diplomats arrested?Nopes.Because they know that the retaliation in Moscow will be swift and hard. India needs to take strong steps againist these. Indian Ambassador searched and re searched in US Airport.Former Indian President APJ Abul Kalam was in US on an invitation from US govt. and was accompanied by a US Home Dept officer still they boarded the plane he was on took his coat etc for re searching.Indian Diplomats daughter arrested on false charges. Preet Bharara is a white feet licker.Thats what he is.He is an attention seeker who goes after high profile people to get attention.
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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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Not much. The text of the Vienna convention is pretty clear and unambiguous. The problem arises when law enforcement disregards the convention to impress their local constituency. This is not the first such case, and eventually it will also be settled outside the court. Most probably she will be asked to leave her position in the US. However, the manner in which she was arrested (she is the acting Consul General in New York) is definitely a very public insult.
Apparently, technically the consulate staff do not enjoy the same diplomatic immunity like the ones in the high commission. I can't confirm but just trying to make sense. The real issue here like you said is the lack of courtesy and "impress the boss" attitude. I think the US could've handled this much better rather than using force. Hence, Nancy Powell has been summoned by India on this matter.
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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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Apparently' date=' technically the consulate staff do not enjoy the same diplomatic immunity like the ones in the high commission. I can't confirm but just trying to make sense. The real issue here like you said is the lack of courtesy and "impress the boss" attitude. I think the US could've handled this much better rather than using force. Hence, Nancy Powell has been summoned by India on this matter.[/quote']Actually, the Consulate Generals are part of the Embassy and enjoy the same diplomatic protection. Furthermore, she is not some consulate staff. She was the acting Consul General (i.e. head of the NY Consulate) at the time of her arrest. That is a pretty senior position. I still cannot believe that she was treated like this. As someone pointed out earlier this would probably never have happen to the Russian or the Chinese Consul General.
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yoda Newbie

yoda

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Here is a chart of who can be arrested for what per the US State Department: http://www.state.gov/m/ds/c9127.htm I am not sure if she qualifies as a Diplomatic Agent or a Consular Officer. Apparently the former can't be arrested, latter can be. My personal take is this - Even if you are a diplomat, you can't expect to be reckless, lie your way and violate local laws and expect to get away.

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Malcolm Merlyn Collaborator

Malcolm Merlyn

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Here is a chart of who can be arrested for what per the US State Department: http://www.state.gov/m/ds/c9127.htm I am not sure if she qualifies as a Diplomatic Agent or a Consular Officer. Apparently the former can't be arrested, latter can be. My personal take is this - Even if you are a diplomat, you can't expect to be reckless, lie your way and violate local laws and expect to get away.
She has diplomatic passport and Visa.So she is diplomatic agent.The laws says that Diplomatic immunity is invoiable.The link you posted says the same.Lets see what happens.
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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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Multiple sources - LiveMint, CNN IBN, a attorney etc. have echoed that consulates do not have the same kind of immunity as embassies. Another source -

A person familiar with the development explained that diplomats posted in consulates have less immunity than those working in embassies.
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/fUTaqUcNu0qdnFDNDCNA5J/Indias-deputy-consul-general-held-in-US-on-visa-fraud-charg.html
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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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So now you pretend to not even understand plain English. This is the opening of Article 31: Clearly, the immunity from criminal proceedings is without any exception. The only exception is for civil proceedings regarding some professional and business dealings. Our diplomat has been deliberately arrested in clear violation of Article 31 of the convention.
Seems like I was correct with my interpretation on these Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade does not enjoy immunity: US
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/indian-diplomat-devyani-khobragade-does-not-enjoy-immunity-us/439517-2.html
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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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Seems like I was correct with my interpretation on these Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade does not enjoy immunity: US http://ibnlive.in.com/news/indian-diplomat-devyani-khobragade-does-not-enjoy-immunity-us/439517-2.html
Please dont give me the State Department BS. The US State Department has always displayed an unbelievable amount of doublespeak and hypocrisy on this issue. This is what they claimed in the Raymond Davis case:
SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: The only relevant question is: Was he notified as a member of the administrative and technical staff upon entry to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? And the answer to that question was yes. At that point, he acquired privileges and immunities. http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/22/state_cia_or_not_davis_still_has_immunity
Raymond Davis was just an administrative staff member who had shot and killed two pakistanis. In this case we are talking of an acting Consul General and nowhere close to a grievous offense. The Vienna Convention is pretty clear to anyone who understands English. The Indian govt is of the view that she does enjoy diplomatic immunity. You are free to side with the US State Department on this issue.
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seedhi Newbie

seedhi

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By the way, couple of years ago an Indian diplomat in Britain was accused of brutally assaulting his wife. Even though a lot of hue and cry was raised (esp. by the airhead feminists in India and Britain) the Indian govt refused permission for his prosecution in UK and did not waive his immunity. Then the UK govt exercised the only option available to them and declared the diplomat persona-non-grata and he left his post in UK.

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Crookbond Newbie

Crookbond

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Please dont give me the State Department BS. The US State Department has always displayed an unbelievable amount of doublespeak and hypocrisy on this issue. This is what they claimed in the Raymond Davis case: Raymond Davis was just an administrative staff member who had shot and killed two pakistanis. In this case we are talking of an acting Consul General and nowhere close to a grievous offense. The Vienna Convention is pretty clear to anyone who understands English. The Indian govt is of the view that she does enjoy diplomatic immunity. You are free to side with the US State Department on this issue.
Don't like the the US department statement fine. I have given multiple sources - LiveMint, CNN IBN and an attorney quoted by the Deccan Chronicle. You may want to ignore them too. There are two questions - (1) Does she enjoy diplomatic immunity as stated in the Vienna Convention? and (2) Does the diplomatic immunity extend to personal cases? Apparently on (1), multiple sources are claiming that the consulate staff does not the enjoy the same diplomatic immunity as that of embassy staff. On (2), it only makes common sense to me that diplomatic immunity does not extend to non-consular functions else one can just about do anything and get away. However, it may not be and I may be wrong on (2). Since we're giving examples, look up Prabhu Dayal a consul general at NY against whom a case was filed. Even then law experts had commented that Prabhu Dayal did not enjoy immunity because the case was between private parties. It is important to understand the complete picture before coming to a conclusion. Two wrongs do not make a right.
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