fineleg Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 At ICF, usually for most Tests when India are in a strong position in 2nd Inn (3rd Inn of a match), there will be cries for "Declare..Declare now...why are we waiting...Declare" Sometimes captains have a larger buffer of runs before they declare. This helps us, and this buffer helped us draw this Test. Sometimes we come close to win but still a draw - case in point: New Zealand tour last time. Lot of people attack MSD for NZ decision. BUT - I supported MSD decision in NZ, because you never know if a team can successfully chase and Indian bowlers need extra buffer. This is the reason Indian captains (including captain Ganguly in Sydney in first innings) - wait for extra runs before they declare or wait until indian team all-out. Sometimes that can result in a draw due to "lack of time", but we gotta understand the extra buffer needed. Link to comment
coffee_rules Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 India were all out here. So, no declaration was necessary. I think it is criminal to declare before 550 in the last inn if we have a day and arrears to bowl at. Link to comment
Cricketics Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 in 03 and here, we were up against both batting line ups and against teams who were ranked higher than us. So it was fine for us to declare late. People made so much about the weather, but you also got to make sure team is in correct position. Also, talking about O3 Aus, Ganguly's 2nd inning declaration was fine, it was his first declaration of batting on morning of 3rd day which might have been a delayed declaration. No reason to start batting on day 3. We were batting first, so should have declared.. Link to comment
fineleg Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 India were all out here. So' date=' no declaration was necessary. I think it is criminal to declare before 550 in the last inn if we have a day and arrears to bowl at. Agreed. Right, but at ICF even when Ashwin got out, there were cries for "Declare now" and then when Ishant Sharma got out "Declare now, what are we waiting" But ZK hit six(es) and Shami hit a boundary and those runs were useful. If we were in the luxury of declaring we need 500+ target before we declare. Our bowling units need 500+ target to be set for declarations when we have 4+ sessions to bowl. We cannot say "Rain" so declare. Sometimes it doesnt rain, so we need to assume no rain and bat normally for 500+ targets. Link to comment
Guest BossBhai Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 -- Removed on request of the user -- Link to comment
Lord Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Thats way too negative yaar.If teams chase down 450,kudos.its an exception more than the norm.you can't plan declarations for that. to me,if possible,you gotta try and have best part of 5 sessions to bowl opposition out. Link to comment
JourneyMan Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Fineleg it all depends on the circumstances. You're right, people were shouting for a declaration well before we reached 450+. You have to account for the opposition, the pitch, you're bowling unit, weather conditions, all sorts of things. Just throwing out 500+ as a thumb rule doesn't work. Link to comment
youngindia Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Depends on conditions...this ground is such that it tends to ease up in recent years. you need to observe how the ground behaves at the time of the year. as I saw it, if we can make 421, they can make 421 as well against a lesser attack and with the pitch easing out.so it was important to not give them any hope at all the declaration has to be such that opposition is just surviving in defensive mode-no chance of winning, have to hang on for a draw.its a different mindset than playing to win. but their start yesterday 134/2 ruined it all.today when I saw 320 at 8 wickets,i felt its not impossible at all. Though on the lesser percentage side.it gave them a glimmer of hope. I feel a opposition has to chase defensively(and negatively) without a glimmer of hope.often they would break down to a defeat. Link to comment
saneindian Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Thats way too negative yaar.If teams chase down 450,kudos.its an exception more than the norm.you can't plan declarations for that. to me,if possible,you gotta try and have best part of 5 sessions to bowl opposition out. Anything over 120-125 is pushing it. If you wont get the opposition out in about 4 sessions, you may not in another session. Reason being bowlers will be tired BTW today was the most number of overs we have ever bowled in the 4th innings of a test match. Outside Asia, we have never bowled over 100 overs! http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;opposition=6;orderby=team_overs;template=results;type=team;view=innings Link to comment
Lord Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Anything over 120-125 is pushing it. If you wont get the opposition out in about 4 sessions' date= you may not in another session. Reason being bowlers will be tired BTW today was the most number of overs we have ever bowled in the 4th innings of a test match. Outside Asia, we have never bowled over 100 overs! http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;opposition=6;orderby=team_overs;template=results;type=team;view=innings That depends,if after those 125 overs you are amongst the tail,then even tired bowlers can get them out.plus in bowling such amount of overs,the spinner has to stand up and bowl more overs.Here because Ashwin looked non threatening,pacers had to do it all and thus got tired Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Agree with moaney here In match thread laods of people saying 350 lead enough. Declare at lunch, declare before lunch, launch dhoni now to get on with it blah blah I was the voice of reason. Calm down, bat properly, get big lead, we need it etc etc Would have lost if listened to IPL ICF fans. Just imagine the heart break if after that 5 days of pure hard work we had lost. Bravado is not the thing for test cricket at certain stages. Look at SA last 2 overs shut up shop, not throwing away 5 days of work. Rember this when calling for ott early declarations and ott bravado. I would have cried myself to sleep if lost today. Great draw. Well done boys Link to comment
Yoda-esque Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Agree with moaney here In match thread laods of people saying 350 lead enough. Declare at lunch, declare before lunch, launch dhoni now to get on with it blah blah I was the voice of reason. Calm down, bat properly, get big lead, we need it etc etc Would have lost if listened to IPL ICF fans. Just imagine the heart break if after that 5 days of pure hard work we had lost. Bravado is not the thing for test cricket at certain stages. Look at SA last 2 overs shut up shop, not throwing away 5 days of work. Rember this when calling for ott early declarations and ott bravado. I would have cried myself to sleep if lost today. Great draw. Well done boys Voice of reason :nice: Link to comment
saneindian Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 That depends' date='if after those 125 overs you are amongst the tail,then even tired bowlers can get them out.plus in bowling such amount of overs,the spinner has to stand up and bowl more overs.Here because Ashwin looked non threatening,pacers had to do it all and thus got tired[/quote'] Which normally doesn't happen. Reason being 2nd new ball is about 40-45 overs old and if there's even one set batsman around, a fight back invariably happens. All this obviously is for tracks which are not doing much on day 5. Link to comment
zep1706 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I was hoping they'd bat 1 hour after lunch regardless of the score and they did exactly that. Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 What people dont get is that when declaring you factor in worst case scenirio to ensure you dont lose(unless last test match of a series and need a win to level it). While many arm chair pundits who are not putting in the sweat and tears over 5 days. Suddenly advice ott bravado and seem to only factor in best case scenario Link to comment
Guest BossBhai Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 -- Removed on request of the user -- Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 well it depends who was crying for a declaration at ICF... anybody who understands a bit of test cricket wouldnt be calling for that at lunch time. Its not like we have Shane friggin Warne in our side lol. I think most were. If you look at match thread all kinds of weird things being spouted:giggle: Link to comment
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