Tennis: ATP/WTA Tour 2014

[zep1706]

Novak wins 4-6 6-3 6-3. Novak played exceptionally well in the last two sets. But I don't think Nadal would be terribly disappointed by this loss. He has found a decent level here which was missing after the AO and that will be crucial going into the RG. He needs a little bit more consistency. Overall a much better performance than the Madrid final. Novak is the slight favorite for RG but I would not count Nadal out. He is a different beast over best of 5, especially on clay.

[Yoda-esque]

Djokovic when in form is simply the better player

[bones]

Agreed. Djokovic's best game is better than Nadal's best game except on clay, where I'd they are about par. But I'd still put the favourites for RG as follows: 1. Nadal a bit of daylight 2. Djokovic more daylight 3. Wawrinka lots and lots of daylight 4. The rest.

[zep1706]

Djokovic when in form is simply the better player

It's kind of similar to Nadal vs Federer. When both in form Nadal is simply the better player. Although in Novak vs Rafa case Rafa still leads the H2H and by the end of their career it won't be a blowout like 23-10.

[zep1706]

Agreed. Djokovic's best game is better than Nadal's best game except on clay, where I'd they are about par. But I'd still put the favourites for RG as follows: 1. Nadal a bit of daylight 2. Djokovic more daylight 3. Wawrinka lots and lots of daylight 4. The rest.

For me, given the way Nadal has played this clay season I can't see him as the number #1 favorite, Djokovic is slightly ahead imo. Nadal has not been able to play his best game and only in this tournament he has somewhat recovered that.

[zep1706]

Agreed. Djokovic's best game is better than Nadal's best game except on clay, where I'd they are about par.

The thing is Novak has to play way over his usual level to beat Nadal. It's true that he can do it much better than most guys but still it is not easy to play such high risk tennis in a best of 5 match. Their grand slam results are a pretty good indicator of that. Novak has not beaten Nadal in a grand slam match outside his dream run in 2011-2012 when he won three in a row. He has lost 5 matches on clay. It is unfair to say that he is on par with Nadal on clay. On hard 2-2 on grass 1-1.

[Raghav_12]

It's kind of similar to Nadal vs Federer. When both in form Nadal is simply the better player. Although in Novak vs Rafa case Rafa still leads the H2H and by the end of their career it won't be a blowout like 23-10.

I would say that out of all these 3, Djokovic is most complete player. I don't see any glaring weakness in his game. He has good serve, very good forehand and one of the all time greatest backhand.

[Cricketics]

Nadal needed this grinding to get and bring back his A game for the French Open. Even though Nadal lost, I am sure he has gained lot of things from this tournament but having broken and losing few sets and coming back to win nail biters against Murray and all. Djokovic was always going to be tough to beat, and was favorite going into this Rome final, but Nadal having made this far even after losing a set every game, would give him much confidene. He increased his probability of winning Rolland Garros now by few percent after reaching final here.

[zep1706]

I would say that out of all these 3' date=' Djokovic is most complete player. I don't see any glaring weakness in his game. He has good serve, very good forehand and one of the all time greatest backhand.[/quote'] From the back of the court, I agree that he has the most balanced game. But many parts of his game are far from perfect. For example outside hard courts he is not a very balanced mover, especially on grass. He is generally not good coming forward, both Nadal and Federer are superior volleyers. He can also be unsettled by using slices. But overall I think his biggest problem is that he can't maintain the top level long enough in a match. After a period of extreme high he generally goes through a period of low, but he has extreme self belief since 2011 and he compensates such inconsistency with it. Overall he has the best top level right now.

[bones]

Djokovic was always going to be tough to beat' date= and was favorite going into this Rome final, but Nadal having made this far even after losing a set every game, would give him much confidene. He increased his probability of winning Rolland Garros now by few percent after reaching final here.

Most bookies had Nadal as a slight favourite. I checked shortly before the match and there wasn't a single bookie which had Novak as fav. If anything this match has shown that Nadal's serving is getting eaten up by Novak. Novak should have beaten Nadal last year in the US Open but for some choking and fatigue. Novak has upped his level against Nadal again like he did in 2011. He's playing like 2011 Novak again, he's not lobbing the balls back mid court and short opening up Nadal's banana FH DTL. He is hitting his BH CC deep and flat, he's all over Nadal's serving. Before this match I was meh about Novak's chances, but if Novak returns like he did yesterday and if his BH is on like it was yesterday, the match is not in Rafa's hands anymore. Nadal has to pray Novak's not on his A game, cause if he is, he'll get picked apart.

[zep1706]

Most bookies had Nadal as a slight favourite. I checked shortly before the match and there wasn't a single bookie which had Novak as fav. If anything this match has shown that Nadal's serving is getting eaten up by Novak. Novak should have beaten Nadal last year in the US Open but for some choking and fatigue. Novak has upped his level against Nadal again like he did in 2011. He's playing like 2011 Novak again, he's not lobbing the balls back mid court and short opening up Nadal's banana FH DTL. He is hitting his BH CC deep and flat, he's all over Nadal's serving. Before this match I was meh about Novak's chances, but if Novak returns like he did yesterday and if his BH is on like it was yesterday, the match is not in Rafa's hands anymore. Nadal has to pray Novak's not on his A game, cause if he is, he'll get picked apart.

Hold your horses sonny boy. Nadal is going through the worst phase of his career when it comes to clay court tennis. He was beaten by his whipping boys Ferrer, Almagro, almost beaten by Nishikori, Youzhny, Simon, Murray and many others. So it is not a surprise that he was beaten by Novak. I would wait for the Roland Garros to see what happens. As I said before Novak has to play way above his comfort level to beat Nadal on clay. He certainly can do it but at times that is also an error prone game plan. So don't make it sound like it only depends on Novak's level of play. Nadal's top level on clay is insane. We haven't seen even a fraction of that consistently this year. Sometimes I feel you did not watch any tennis before 2011.

[bones]

Sometimes I feel you did not watch any tennis before 2011.

I did watch it, but wasn't mad about the sport so much. In 2009 I had hope with DelPo but his injury killed that. In amongst it all, there were glimmers of Djokovic and Murray emerging, but in 2011, when Novak grabbed the bull by the horns and took it to Nadal, that is when my interest re-emerged. 2010/2011 was also the time when I got bored of the flat track cricket we have. The day will come when these two will fade away and we'll be left with a post Sampras and pre-Fed era. Anyways, RG is around the corner, let's see what happens.

[Muloghonto]

I would say that out of all these 3' date=' Djokovic is most complete player. I don't see any glaring weakness in his game. He has good serve, very good forehand and one of the all time greatest backhand.[/quote'] Grass court game is djokovics glaring weakness. Unlike federer,djokovic is not really an allcourt player. He is the most complete attacking baseliner i've seen though. Nadal is the most versatile baseliner, in the sense that he can play the defensive and aggressive game the best. Federer is a bit behind them from the baseline coz of his sh backhand but he compensates significantly by having the best shb in the game and his trick shot mastery. But he is way way better at using the front half of the court than these two. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[Muloghonto]

Hold your horses sonny boy. Nadal is going through the worst phase of his career when it comes to clay court tennis. He was beaten by his whipping boys Ferrer' date=' Almagro, almost beaten by Nishikori, Youzhny, Simon, Murray and many others. So it is not a surprise that he was beaten by Novak. I would wait for the Roland Garros to see what happens. As I said before Novak has to play way above his comfort level to beat Nadal on clay. He certainly can do it but at times that is also an error prone game plan. So don't make it sound like it only depends on Novak's level of play. Nadal's top level on clay is insane. We haven't seen even a fraction of that consistently this year. Sometimes I feel you did not watch any tennis before 2011.[/quote'] That nadal is gone. Just like the feferer of 2006 is gone too. Tennis players have managed to extend their careers due to sports med but their peaks now tend to b 24 to 28. In nadals case, it was earlier. He may compensate a bit by smarter play due to exp. But once u lose a step in your footspeed, ur top game almost never returns. Both these players are past their prime. It was inevitable but its the reality. On the other hand, i've noticed nadal is better when he is not #1, so it might mitigate some of his ordinary play. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[zep1706]

That nadal is gone. Just like the feferer of 2006 is gone too. Tennis players have managed to extend their careers due to sports med but their peaks now tend to b 24 to 28. In nadals case, it was earlier. He may compensate a bit by smarter play due to exp. But once u lose a step in your footspeed, ur top game almost never returns. Both these players are past their prime. It was inevitable but its the reality. On the other hand, i've noticed nadal is better when he is not #1, so it might mitigate some of his ordinary play. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

You may be right. Nadal is not the same player on clay as he used to be till 2012. That was pretty apparent last year itself. Apart from losing a step in speed his shots are also less powerful. I have also noticed that his FH hasn't bounced as high as it used to before. May be he has also lost a little bit of spin and power.

[zep1706]

Roland Garros draw, pretty even imo [1] Nadal v Ginepri Mathieu v Thiem Qualifier v Mayer Gabashvili v [30] Pospisil [21] Almagro v Sock Johnson v Qualifier Lajovic v Delbonis Zopp v [16] Haas [11] Dimitrov v Karlovic Qualifier v Brands Michon v Klahn Robert v [19] Anderson [32] Seppi v Giraldo Monaco v Pouille Qualifier v Qualifier Sijsling v [5] Ferrer [3] Wawrinka v Garcia-Lopez Mannarino v Lu Young v Sela Qualifier v [26] Lopez [23] Monfils v Hanescu Olivetti v Struff Becker v Bellucci Qualifier v [14] Fognini [12] Gasquet v Tomic Hewitt v Berlocq Ebden v Cuevas Llodra v [24] Verdasco [28] Kohlschreiber v Riba Stakhovsky v Istomin Matosevic v Brown Golubev v [7] Murray [6] Berdych v Qualifier Devvarman v Nedovyesov Falla v Paire Qualifier v [27] Bautista-Agut [17] Robredo v Qualifier Montanes v De Schepper Mahut v Kukushkin Herbert v [10] Isner [15] Youzhny v Carreno Busta Stepanek v Arguello Qualifier v Benneteau Kubot v [18] Gulbis [31] Tursunov v Qualifier Volandri v Querrey Qualifier v Qualifier Lacko v [4] Federer [8] Raonic v Kyrgios Rosol v Vesely Russell v Gonzalez Qualifier v [29] Simon [20] Dolgopolov v Ramos Dodig v Granollers Haase v Davydenko Klizan v [9] Nishikori [13] Tsonga v Roger-Vasselin Goffin v Melzer Nieminen v Przysiezny Estrella Burgos v [22] Janowicz [25] Cilic v Andujar Qualifier v Kamke Chardy v Gimeno-Traver Sousa v [2] Djokovic __________________

[bones]

I thought we were doing the new thread for slams thing? If not, can mods close the other thread please? I don't think the draw is even at all, I think Berdych and Nadal have horrible sections. Nadal's overall route looks far more daunting than Novak's potential route. That is if they both get through.

[zep1706]

I thought we were doing the new thread for slams thing? If not, can mods close the other thread please? I don't think the draw is even at all, I think Berdych and Nadal have horrible sections. Nadal's overall route looks far more daunting than Novak's potential route. That is if they both get through.

Yeah I did not see your thread and opened one myself. Hope the mods merge them and make it sticky.

[bones]

Murray knocked out early in Queens. Nadal out early in Halle. Bad news for both since there's little time to get used to the grass before Wimbledon. DelPo still out, return not likely till the Asian HC season, real shame. Wanted to see him slaughter Nadal in NY again. Novak resting and will play Boodles exhibitions. In fact only Stan and Fed from the slam winner club have got any sort of a run going. They really need to strip the Madrid masters from the calendar and pull RG and Rome forward a week and get a grass 1000 event somewhere so that the players have enough practise.

[kumar713]

XV93vEIB2eY :two_thumbs_up: peRFect weekend