speed and performance of indian pacers in ipl

[Old guy]

To be fair, Philander has never played a test in the subcontinent. Whether he will succeed here or not, at his pace, only time will tell. Sandeep Sharma and co. will have to play more than 50% of their tests in the subcontinent. It is far tougher for slower pacers to suceed here in tests. Secondly, Philander , though slower in the air, has the ability to hit the deck hard and extract life and bounce off the pitch. Sandeep , PK etc. don't have this ability yet. Pandey does and hence is a better international prospect.

this is what you wrote please see the hard part it was not just hit the deck it was hit the deck hard and i replied with

That is not possible to be slow and hit deck hard he just hits seam

hope this helps it was never in dispute that he hits the deck and gets seam movement even if we call it different things we know what we mean the way i see it makes it lot more simple and actually describe different bowlers properly. only problem is you maintained he hit the deck hard and extracts lots of life which is just not true but compared to guys like bhuvi who are actually more of swing bowlers who prefer to float he he does do it as his length is bit shorter and he tries to move of swing rather than try to bowl full and get movement in air thats the difference between them if philander was stronger he would be bowling at 140 k but he is most of times slower than bhuvi now a days

[Old guy]

Look at Ryan Harris. He is barely tall, as tall as Mohit Sharma, around 5'10" but he is a hit the deck bowler. Same is Peter Siddle, not really tall too. Hilfy taller than both but is a swing bowler. Starc taller than Johnson many bowlers but is primarily a swing bowler while Johnson hits the deck. Starc's full 145K delivery looks visibly slower than Aaron or Johnson's 145K because he put its while they bowl it through. Regarding seam, hitting the seam is prerequisite for any fast bowler, but the difference is how they hit the seam. Swing bowlers also have upright seam which what enables them to get swing but because they release the ball, seam does not hit the pitch hard, while hit deck the bowlers don not float, they try to get maximum out of the pitch whether it lands on good length or short of length by pelting on the pitch.

siddle (max speed 150 k ) harris (as quick as shami if not quicker ,about 140k average 138 k ) johnson,starc (we know it ) hilfy ( he is normally swings the bowl from hand and bowls full and has very slngy action which is actually his weakness ..he delivers bowl at angle from close to stumps and bowls full ) and i already told you i call that seam bowling (what you wrote in second paragraph ) and we both are correct and if you wanna wish to continue with that description please cntinue but it will confuse everyone all of sudden anderson,zaheer and every other bowler who is not slow and floats the ball up for swing is hit the deck bowler which is just not right obviously we all know what they do but there is a reason commentators do not use it for every bowler they see..this term is reserved for special bowlers who actualy hit the deck very hard and extract life out pitch like broad in ashes or morkel or flintoff

[express bowling]

dudes....what you are calling hitting the deck is simple seam bowling philander does not hits the deck ... asif did and i loved his bowling but he was tall thats my criteria and i am not gonna change it because every bowl will hit the pitch and bounce and unless it hits it hard i am not gonna call bowler hit the deck bowler otherwise every bowler on this planet including you and me are hit the deck bowlers but poor ones :winky:

"Hit the deck" is a cricket term used by the cricketing fraternity all over the world. Your definition does not matter.

[Old guy]

"Hit the deck" is a cricket term used by the cricketing fraternity all over the world. Your definition does not matter.

but its reserved for very few tall bowlers who are quick every bowlers hits deck but only certain bowlers hit it hard to deserve this term and in cricket commentators have been pretty clear about it

[rkt.india]

this is what you wrote please see the hard part it was not just hit the deck it was hit the deck hard and i replied with hope this helps it was never in dispute that he hits the deck and gets seam movement even if we call it different things we know what we mean the way i see it makes it lot more simple and actually describe different bowlers properly. only problem is you maintained he hit the deck hard and extracts lots of life which is just not true but compared to guys like bhuvi who are actually more of swing bowlers who prefer to float he he does do it as his length is bit shorter and he tries to move of swing rather than try to bowl full and get movement in air thats the difference between them if philander was stronger he would be bowling at 140 k but he is most of times slower than bhuvi now a days

It is certainly possible to hit the deck hard even if you are slower in pace because of difference of grip. Lose grip means seam wont hit hard on the pitch, tight grip means it will hit the pitch harder no matter what your pace is. Even Philander does both things. Sometimes, he tries to float, sometimes he hits the deck. He is a little slower when float in high 120s to low 130. but he goes up to mid to high 130s when he hits the deck hard. One trick pony bowlers who depend far too much on swing have a very short shelf-life. Look at what happened to BK. Before Aus ODI series, he was averaging 21 when he bowled in some helpfil conditions in Pak ODI series, England ODI series at home in winters, CT, WI tri-series and look at after that. Now, he averages 38. This is the reason I support bowlers who have a bit of pace because it is easier for them to learn to swing and skills rather than slow pace swing bowler to get quicker. Pace is natural whether it comes to you or not. Swing is a honed and learnt skill. A good coach can help you with that. Like it happened in case of Pattinson. His FC record was not great, did not have a single 5-fer, had decent pace but he was more of a back of a length bowler, but McDermott made him swing the ball, pitch it full at pace and that combination can be lethal.

[rkt.india]

siddle (max speed 150 k ) harris (as quick as shami if not quicker ,about 140k average 138 k ) johnson,starc (we know it ) hilfy ( he is normally swings the bowl from hand and bowls full and has very slngy action which is actually his weakness ..he delivers bowl at angle from close to stumps and bowls full )

but they are not tall. They can be quick. Johnson is predominantly a hit the deck bowler, while Starc is predominantly a swing bowler.

[Old guy]

It is certainly possible to hit the deck hard even if you are slower in pace because of difference of grip. Lose grip means seam wont hit hard on the pitch, tight grip means it will hit the pitch harder no matter what your pace is. Even Philander does both things. Sometimes, he tries to float, sometimes he hits the deck. He is a little slower when float in high 120s to low 130. but he goes up to mid to high 130s when he hits the deck hard. One trick pony bowlers who depend far too much on swing have a very short shelf-life. Look at what happened to BK. Before Aus ODI series, he was averaging 21 when he bowled in some helpfil conditions in Pak ODI series, England ODI series at home in winters, CT, WI tri-series and look at after that. Now, he averages 38. This is the reason I support bowlers who have a bit of pace because it is easier for them to learn to swing and skills rather than slow pace swing bowler to get quicker. Pace is natural whether it comes to you or not. Swing is a honed and learnt skill. A good coach can help you with that. Like it happened in case of Pattinson. His FC record was not great, did not have a single 5-fer, had decent pace but he was more of a back of a length bowler, but McDermott made him swing the ball, pitch it full at pace and that combination can be lethal.

man it is just impossible ..please explain me how same ball with same mass with same angle and with same speed will hit the track harder ? tight grip means bowl will be released quicker and will have more energy in it which means more speed...i just do not understand physics here how is it possible to hit the track harder ?

[express bowling]

but its reserved for very few tall bowlers who are quick every bowlers hits deck but only certain bowlers hit it hard to deserve this term and in cricket commentators have been pretty clear about it

Every bowler does not hit the deck. Irfan Pathan rarely used to. Starc, bowling 145 k, does not hit the deck most of the times but floats the ball. Mohit, hits the deck a lot even though he is short and medium fast.

[Old guy]

but they are not tall. They can be quick. Johnson is predominantly a hit the deck bowler, while Starc is predominantly a swing bowler.

because of length they bowl and it suits them also sling shot like action makes difference and pace wise they are lot different tbh

[rkt.india]

but its reserved for very few tall bowlers who are quick every bowlers hits deck but only certain bowlers hit it hard to deserve this term and in cricket commentators have been pretty clear about it

You do not need to be quick to hit the deck. Kyle Mills, Daryl Tuffy, Jacob Oram none were quick, but were hit the deck bowlers. I can show you tall bowlers who were/are not hit the deck but swing bowlers like Starc, Akram, etc. Zoysa was another hit the deck bowler, used to bowl 125k. A hit the deck bowler is a seam bowler who hits the seam hard which is what Philander does even at a slower pace because of tighter grip on the ball and he does not even have a perfect upright seam like BK, PK. His seam is like Asif or Mohit Sharma which makes it difficult fort batsmen to judge whether it will come in or go away but because he has such a great control, he forces the batsman to play the ball at most times and induces edges and or sneaks through the gate or hits the pad by deviating the ball off the pitch just enough to deceive batsmen. A swing bowler is also a seam bowler but he does not hit the seam hard rather float it with loose grip like Bhuvi, Sandeep, and PK, etc. These bowlers beat the batsman in the air.

[rkt.india]

man it is just impossible ..please explain me how same ball with same mass with same angle and with same speed will hit the track harder ? tight grip means bowl will be released quicker and will have more energy in it which means more speed...i just do not understand physics here how is it possible to hit the track harder ?

yaar.. compare Philander and BK, both at same pace 130. BK release the ball while Philander hits the deck. Philander will have more impact on the bat and bounce at same pace because BK just kissed the surface while Philander thrust the ball on the surface with wrist and shoulder. You will see same pace on speed gun but that pace is just speed, not velocity. Speed and velocity are 2 different things. Another example is Kallis. He also bowls 130-135 but he looks quicker on the bat than most bowlers because his ability to hit the deck harder and Kallis is not a tall 6'4" guy.

[Old guy]

Every bowler does not hit the deck. Irfan Pathan rarely used to. Starc' date=' bowling 135 k, does not hit the deck most of the times but floats the ball. Mohit, hits the deck a lot even though he is short and medium fast.[/quote'] i am 100 percent sure starc bowling at 145 k hits track harder than mohit bowling at 135k this is the problem what you wanna csay is hits the seam and moves the ball and what you guys are saying is hitting the deck i think there is problem with description here just because starc swings the bowl does not means his bowl hits the pitch less harder than mohit sharma (obviously presuming they hit same length ) it is just not possible nad you can measure it with pressure sensors it is jsut not possible specially because starc is taller too yeah i can agree that mohit seams the ball and starc doesn ot but again that is the entire point :cantstop:

[Old guy]

yaar.. compare Philander and BK, both at same pace 130. BK release the ball while Philander hits the deck. Philander will have more impact on the bat and bounce at same pace because BK just kissed the surface while Philander thrust the ball on the surface with wrist and shoulder. You will see same pace on speed gun but that pace is just speed, not velocity. Speed and velocity are 2 different things. Another example is Kallis. He also bowls 130-135 but he looks quicker on the bat than most bowlers because his ability to hit the deck harder and Kallis is not a tall 6'4" guy.

man you guys are giving importance to looking a lot they look quicker because they get more deviation from seam and since they hit seam they lose less pace of track that is entirely different from hitting the deck hard every bowler looks quicker and harder to play when there is movement and specially movement of seam so lets not go by reactions of batsmen some bowlers swing the ball in air they obviously will bowl fuller and ball will obviously hit the deck slower since ball is fuller it loses more pace by the time it hits the track and how iwl velocity be different if everything including angle is same ? please explain this to me ? how will velocity be different by change in release? why does it even matter ? just take a ball and try your hard grip nad you will see you are not only hitting deck harder but bowling lot quicker

[rkt.india]

i am 100 percent sure starc bowling at 145 k hits track harder than mohit bowling at 135k this is the problem what you wanna csay is hits the seam and moves the ball and what you guys are saying is hitting the deck i think there is problem with description here just because starc swings the bowl does not means his bowl hits the pitch less harder than mohit sharma (obviously presuming they hit same length ) it is just not possible nad you can measure it with pressure sensors it is jsut not possible specially because starc is taller too yeah i can agree that mohit seams the ball and starc doesn ot but again that is the entire point :cantstop:

You cannot compare 2 different pace bowlers like Mohit or Starc. Compare two similar pace bowlers like Starc and Johnson. Starc's fuller balls are more floaty while Johnson look quicker even when he is fuller and Johnson is 3-4 inches shorter.

[Old guy]

maybe you guys are confusing losing pace off track with hitting deck :cantstop: ishant sharma used to have good seam position so when he hit track he used to get lot of movement and bounce of track but with bad seam position he even at 150 k does not gets same movement and bounce and looks mediocre

[rkt.india]

man you guys are giving importance to looking a lot they look quicker because they get more deviation from seam and since they hit seam they lose less pace of track that is entirely different from hitting the deck hard

How it is different from hitting the deck hard. You do not get deviation off the seam unless you hit the deck. Hit deck is hard is just a term which means hitting the seam hard to get deviation. Hitting the shiny part of the ball isn't hitting the deck hard but hitting the seam hard is. Likes of BK, PK, Sandeep, Basant Mohanty do not hit the seam hard. They float the seam to get swing.

[Old guy]

You cannot compare 2 different pace bowlers like Mohit or Starc. Compare two similar pace bowlers like Starc and Johnson. Starc's fuller balls are more floaty while Johnson look quicker even when he is fuller and Johnson is 3-4 inches shorter.

first of all jonhson is lot quicker and second he bowls lot shorter and we both know this :winky:

[rkt.india]

maybe you guys are confusing losing pace off track with hitting deck :cantstop: ishant sharma used to have good seam position so when he hit track he used to get lot of movement and bounce of track but with bad seam position he even at 150 k does not gets same movement and bounce and looks mediocre

As I already said, hitting the deck hard means hitting the seam. Ishant's bowling is flawed. He hits the deck but due to poor seam isn't effective. Every bowler who hits the deck must hit the seam, only then you can be termed as a hit the deck bowler. I already said above that swing bowlers to hit the seam but not hard rather they make seam kiss the surface.

[rkt.india]

first of all jonhson is lot quicker and second he bowls lot shorter and we both know this :winky:

No. Even in this IPL, there is not much difference in their pace. Both have bowled a lot in 145Ks. Take a look. http://www.iplt20.com/stats/2014/fastest-ball

[Old guy]

How it is different from hitting the deck hard. You do not get deviation off the seam unless you hit the deck. Hit deck is hard is just a term which means hitting the seam hard to get deviation. Hitting the shiny part of the ball isn't hitting the deck hard but hitting the seam hard is. Likes of BK' date=' PK, Sandeep, Basant Mohanty do not hit the seam hard. They float the seam to get swing.[/quote'] that is stupid so you are saying hitting the seam =hitting the deck and if bowl is crossed seam it is not hitting the deck hard ? admit it or not but calling it seam movement makes lot more sense but you guys obviously wont back off so whats the point :giggle: