Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Cricketics]

8 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

If a person with little knowledge of cricket goes through this thread he will think India is hub or producing cast bowlera

 

Then that "someone" or you need to change the thinking of how you see the information shared here as it is not intended to be understood the way you are taking. 

 

Thampi, Aniket etc have been rated as prospects here and have the potential to do good in comparison to other seamers on the show in domestic.  Now how these "prospects" do in the future and develop their game all depends on the amount of hard work they put in the next future seasons. So no one is hyping them to

to be the next "Zaheer" of India or something. People are just throwing out names and info of players who could be fast tracked to India "A" team so that they could gain experience of playing overseaas teams compared to players like Vinay and Dinda who have gained enough experience now  by playing for the "A" sides and need to just stick to their State teams. 

 

[rkt.india]

Hype is when people have not seen them and talking big about them based on reports like in case of Umar Nazir. Most fast bowlers in this thread people have already seen them. How can it be called a hype when we have already seen them clocking 145 kph on speed guns. That's not hype, that's potential. Hype was when news reports said Nazir could bowl quicker than Ishant, 90 mph consistently and then it turned out that he could not even hit 85 mph.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

27 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Then that "someone" or you need to change the thinking of how you see the information shared here as it is not intended to be understood the way you are taking. 

 

Thampi, Aniket etc have been rated as prospects here and have the potential to do good in comparison to other seamers on the show in domestic.  Now how these "prospects" do in the future and develop their game all depends on the amount of hard work they put in the next future seasons. So no one is hyping them to

to be the next "Zaheer" of India or something. People are just throwing out names and info of players who could be fast tracked to India "A" team so that they could gain experience of playing overseaas teams compared to players like Vinay and Dinda who have gained enough experience now  by playing for the "A" sides and need to just stick to their State teams. 

 

Really?How am to understand if someone claims that there are 4-5 international type bowler in every zone?

 

When Basil Thampi,Sayan,Sangwan,Khajroliya etc are being hyped?What has Khajroliya done to be called the fastest in India?Anything?

 

The likes of Rajput/Thakur/Aniket avg 28-29 in Indian FC.Think what will they avg in Test Cricket?Zakk avgd 25 or less in FC and he avgd 33 in Tests.Thats the gulf.

 

Its understandable to say that Pant or Iyer or Kuldeep have potential.Here every bowler who hits 138-139 in a while is a international potential.Thats exxageration.Thats Hype.

 

Watch some T20 hit and giggle matches,look at the speed gun and start hyping.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Hype is when people have not seen them and talking big about them based on reports like in case of Umar Nazir. Most fast bowlers in this thread people have already seen them. How can it be called a hype when we have already seen them clocking 145 kph on speed guns. That's not hype, that's potential. Hype was when news reports said Nazir could bowl quicker than Ishant, 90 mph consistently and then it turned out that he could not even hit 85 mph.

 

Hype is exxagerated publicity.Hype is when you exxagerate someone's potential.Thats what has been happening on this thread.

[MCcricket]

Hype is justified as Indian cricket is changing from the times when Gavaskar was opening the bowling to take shine off for spin quartet to now fast bowlers working on shine to be lethal reverse swing exponents.

Hype is justified coz we r seeing a revolution not one or two f/m bowlers like Ankola, Wassan to be excited about every decade or so but having atleast 10 bowlers who have everything we need in potentially promising pacers, speed now we see more bowlers bowling or touching 140 k n some ave at 140 which never ever happened except maybe short window when Srinath was at peak, these rookies have serious pace, very good or decent action are more athletic, good attitude n confidence plus skills and good support system now n lucrative IPL to get attn.

Hype is promoting BK as a twin of Steyn, or saying g we have a world class ODI team or having best power hitters in the game, which we don't.

Umesh was recently mentioned by Rodney as one of the best pacers n Aussies, Poms, ,NZ have all acknowledged spinners are a major threat but Indian pacers have taken their bowling to a higher level, we r just short of being world class, one more bowler like Aniket n we can be.

An attack with Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Aniket could win us games in SA, NZ, Australia.

Edited February 19, 2017 by MCcricket

[vayuu1]

Really?How am to understand if someone claims that there are 4-5 international type bowler in every zone?

 

When Basil Thampi,Sayan,Sangwan,Khajroliya etc are being hyped?What has Khajroliya done to be called the fastest in India?Anything?

 

The likes of Rajput/Thakur/Aniket avg 28-29 in Indian FC.Think what will they avg in Test Cricket?Zakk avgd 25 or less in FC and he avgd 33 in Tests.Thats the gulf.

 

Its understandable to say that Pant or Iyer or Kuldeep have potential.Here every bowler who hits 138-139 in a while is a international potential.Thats exxageration.Thats Hype.

 

Watch some T20 hit and giggle matches,look at the speed gun and start hyping.

To say, that Indian cricket is stuck in the time of zak is wrong,3 things have changed in Indian cricket since then, perception regarding fast bowling even in India, teams have realized the importance of fast bowlers in domestic cricket especially bowlers with sharp pace that's why most teams are giving preference to bowlers with good pace and even fast bowlers putting effort,introduction of speed guns and matches being televised also plays huge part in it, secondly pitches now are more supportive of fast bowling, so fast bowlers are putting effort in their bowling,also introduction of better training facilities,more money has insured that they are better trained are more fit, finally the most important thing, the introduction of IPL, every Indian bowler know it's the best platform to get the limelight, especially when you know that India need a pool of good fast bowlers and by fast those with sharp pace and good skills so they look to impress the selectors and the world through it, even spinners too, also it gives them financial security and they know they have to be at their best,even domestic offers good chunk of money, so a lot has changed since zak debut.

 

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[vayuu1]

Hype is justified as Indian cricket is changing from the times when Gavaskar was opening the bowling to take shine off for spin quartet to now fast bowlers working on shine to be lethal reverse swing exponents.

Hype is justified coz we r seeing a revolution not one or two f/m bowlers like Ankola, Sassanid to be excited about every decade or so but having atleast 10 bowlers who have everything we need in potentially promising pacers, speed now we see more bowlers bowling or touching 140 k n some ave at 140 which never ever happened except maybe short window when Srinath was at peak, these rookies have serious pace, very good or decent action are more athletic, good attitude n confidence plus skills and good support system now n lucrative IPL to get attn.

Hype is promoting BK as a twin of Steyn, or saying g we have a world class ODI team or having best power hitters in the game, which we don't.

Umesh was recently mentioned by Rodney as one of the best pacers n Aussies, Poms, ,NZ have all acknowledged spinners are a major threat but Indian pacers have taken their bowling to a higher level, we r just short of being world class, one more bowler like Aniket n we can be.

An attack with Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Aniket could win us games in SA, NZ, Australia.

I'd like to add few things to it, the prospects we are talking about, nobody is saying that they are finished product, they still are raw talent and it's upto management to nurture them, what we are saying is they have that flair that X Factor about them that they look like they can represent India and can be an added strength for us especially abroad.but it depends on their work ethics how willing they are to develop.

 

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

 

 

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Really?How am to understand if someone claims that there are 4-5 international type bowler in every zone?

 

When Basil Thampi,Sayan,Sangwan,Khajroliya etc are being hyped?What has Khajroliya done to be called the fastest in India?Anything?

 

The likes of Rajput/Thakur/Aniket avg 28-29 in Indian FC.Think what will they avg in Test Cricket?Zakk avgd 25 or less in FC and he avgd 33 in Tests.Thats the gulf.

 

Its understandable to say that Pant or Iyer or Kuldeep have potential.Here every bowler who hits 138-139 in a while is a international potential.Thats exxageration.Thats Hype.

 

Watch some T20 hit and giggle matches,look at the speed gun and start hyping.

International type doesn't mean international level bowler. It means they have ingredients to become international bowler. 

 

How are Thampi and others being hyped. We have seen them bowled. They have been quick and people are only saying that they have potential. Some have done well in FC, some in list A.

 

Regarding FC average, a lot of things decide your average. Rajpoot average 25 in FC. Aniket and Thakur are late Bloomer. Anyway, no one has yet said they will become good or great in test cricket but they can because they have ingredients. FYI, Hazelwood averaged 30 in FC cricket after 30 matches with just one fifer when he debuted for Australia.

 

Regarding Khejroliya, no one has said he is fastest India, but might be fastest  among current uncapped bowlers and there are videos to support such a notion. The way he hurries the batsmen, at times apart from Sangwan, none in current uncapped fast bowlers have done that.

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

Hype is exxagerated publicity.Hype is when you exxagerate someone's potential.Thats what has been happening on this thread.

We are not exaggerating anyone's ability. Their pace is evident to everyone. How much they will improve further, no can predict. Never in the history of our cricket, we had so many bowlers bowling with such pace in domestic cricket. 

 

Sangwan

Thampi

Aniket

Warrier

Rajpoot

Khejroliya

Siraj

Nathu

Sayan Ghosh

Navdeep Saini

Shardul

Baba Shafi Pathan

 

[ShebbySB]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

We are not exaggerating anyone's ability. Their pace is evident to everyone. How much they will improve further, no can predict. Never in the history of our cricket, we had so many bowlers bowling with such pace in domestic cricket. 

 

Sangwan

Thampi

Aniket

Warrier

Rajpoot

Khejroliya

Siraj

Nathu

Sayan Ghosh

Navdeep Saini

Shardul

Baba Shafi Pathan

 

Rahul Shukla,Pawan Suyal(if fit),Avesh Khan.

[express bowling]

14 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Really?How am to understand if someone claims that there are 4-5 international type bowler in every zone?

 

 

International type pacers do not mean good pacers or that they are ready to play international cricket now.

 

It means that they MAY  become international quality IF  they pick up more skills etc.  This may or may not happen.

 

It means they have the pace or bounce + height  or  special ability to swing the ball. It may mean that they are hitting the deck hard and are able to extract some life out of pitches.

 

Sandeep Warrier is an international type pacer but  NOT an international level pacer yet.

 

BS Sandhu, bowling for Mumbai,  is NOT  an international type pacer.  Same goes for Joginder Sharma, Vinay Kumar etc. Some of these guys are at the peak of their skills but will never play international cricket.

 

We, in India, used to produce dibbly-dobbly floaty bowlers for decades..... types of pacers which no other top bowling team had.....now this is changing and this is what so many posters are pointing out.  

 

Now, we too are producing tall or strong pacers with pace and / or bounce , ability to hit the deck hard and get bounce and seam movement and not depend only on conventional swing..... just like teams with good pace attacks do. These are the international type pacers  although they may never be good enough to play for their country due to lack of requisite skills.

Edited February 19, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

We are not exaggerating anyone's ability. Their pace is evident to everyone. How much they will improve further, no can predict. Never in the history of our cricket, we had so many bowlers bowling with such pace in domestic cricket. 

 

Sangwan

Thampi

Aniket

Warrier

Rajpoot

Khejroliya

Siraj

Nathu

Sayan Ghosh

Navdeep Saini

Shardul

Baba Shafi Pathan

 

Also perhaps Mohsin Sayyed, Amit Kuila, Ishan Porel, Avesh Khan, Lalit Yadav, Rahul Shukla

[prudent_kreeda]

10 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

if anyone claimed these bowlers will take 200 test wickets that would be hype , they are being judged on what they are producing ,sangwan hit 146k and could have hit 150 in my opinion with a slightly better action,how is it hype 

     Do not understand why people are crying hype .. hype ..

     What is being discussed is the names of pacers ( a very rare specie in India ) who have shown spark .

     Mind you this being an Indian cricket related forum , naturally we will talk about such young pacers , no one saying these are names 

     are among / would be top 6 in the world.

     If discussed , it does not mean they are world beaters. Within India these guys are showing spark and may play for India.

     Again only a few may make the cut , injury being a big issue in their development . 

     If some one compared these rookies with say Starc, Broad, Akram , Shoib and toms toms that they are as good as these greats , 

      then it can be termed not  only as hype  but absolute stupidity. 

     Again , these guys are not finished products. Mostly here discussing about pace one of the basic and imp tool to be a success . 

     You need to have seam movement, swing , cutters, yorkers , subtle change in pace apart from pace to be a real good one . 

     and above all consistency  while doing all this. None of them have all these ATM.

     We need to keep this in mind before do the  cry  ... Hype ... hype

     Some of them will get a real hiding  from world stars when they make the grade. 

     But sooner they develop the required skill and improve would make them stay afloat in international level.

     Hope once top 6 of the lot is identified by selectors , each of the 6 should be given at least 3-4 matches in the next 12-15 months in  

     whatever  international format / A team , so that each one will know where he stands and what additional skill need to possessed or

    perfected.  Making them play another 2 seasons without any international exposure will ruin many a career.

    

  

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

International type pacers do not mean good pacers or that they are ready to play international cricket now.

 

It means that they MAY  become international quality IF  they pick up more skills etc.  This may or may not happen.

 

It means they have the pace or bounce + height  or  special ability to swing the ball. It may mean that they are hitting the deck hard and are able to extract some life out of pitches.

 

Sandeep Warrier is an international type pacer but  NOT an international level pacer yet.

 

BS Sandhu, bowling for Mumbai,  is NOT  an international type pacer.  Same goes for Joginder Sharma, Vinay Kumar etc. Some of these guys are at the peak of their skills but will never play international cricket.

 

We, in India, used to produce dibbly-dobbly floaty bowlers for decades..... types of pacers which no other top bowling team had.....now this is changing and this is what so many posters are pointing out.  

 

Now, we too are producing tall or strong pacers with pace and / or bounce , ability to hit the deck hard and get bounce and seam movement and not depend only on conventional swing..... just like teams with good pace attacks do. These are the international type pacers  although they may never be good enough to play for their country due to lack of requisite skills.

I notice the with BD while SL have regressed.

[speedster]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

International type pacers do not mean good pacers or that they are ready to play international cricket now.

 

It means that they MAY  become international quality IF  they pick up more skills etc.  This may or may not happen.

 

It means they have the pace or bounce + height  or  special ability to swing the ball. It may mean that they are hitting the deck hard and are able to extract some life out of pitches.

 

Sandeep Warrier is an international type pacer but  NOT an international level pacer yet.

 

BS Sandhu, bowling for Mumbai,  is NOT  an international type pacer.  Same goes for Joginder Sharma, Vinay Kumar etc. Some of these guys are at the peak of their skills but will never play international cricket.

 

We, in India, used to produce dibbly-dobbly floaty bowlers for decades..... types of pacers which no other top bowling team had.....now this is changing and this is what so many posters are pointing out.  

 

Now, we too are producing tall or strong pacers with pace and / or bounce , ability to hit the deck hard and get bounce and seam movement and not depend only on conventional swing..... just like teams with good pace attacks do. These are the international type pacers  although they may never be good enough to play for their country due to lack of requisite skills.

Agree with this, I am new to this forum and I have seen posters like Express Bowling, RKT, Cricketics etc regularly share videos about upcoming fast bowlers and to be quite honest that is one of the great things about this forum for me,  you get to read about these unknown players with potential, especially for those of us who may not be able to follow domestic cricket so regularly it is great to get updates on these players.

Also seeing that we have been deficient in producing genuine fast bowlers with international pedigree it is natural that there is excitement when one sees the raw ingredients in any young bowler, so what's wrong with that?

[express bowling]

Another big importance of having multiple quick  or quickish deck-hitting pacers playing domestic cricket is that the domestic batsmen become used to playing pace, bounce and seam movement. We will have more ready batting products when they come to international cricket.

 

Multiple quick pacers in domestic cricket also means that the domestic coaches and selectors are doing a better job regarding pacers  and a fast bowling culture is being promoted now in our country.

 

Multiple quick pacers in domestic cricket would also increase the probability of finding a couple of good quick pacers for the national team and also keep our international pacers on their toes. They will either have to work hard and improve / keep up their performances or face the possibility of being replaced by the quick pacers waiting in the wings.  They cannot take their place for granted just because they have a bit of pace.  Competition among domestic quicks may help their own development too.

 

These 3  factors also add to the joy of many of us when we see fast bowlers in domestic cricket..... even though  many of these pacers will never play for India   or become good enough to play for our country.

Edited February 19, 2017 by express bowling

[Laaloo]

5 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

     Do not understand why people are crying hype .. hype ..

     What is being discussed is the names of pacers ( a very rare specie in India ) who have shown spark .

     Mind you this being an Indian cricket related forum , naturally we will talk about such young pacers , no one saying these are names 

     are among / would be top 6 in the world.

     If discussed , it does not mean they are world beaters. Within India these guys are showing spark and may play for India.

     Again only a few may make the cut , injury being a big issue in their development . 

     If some one compared these rookies with say Starc, Broad, Akram , Shoib and toms toms that they are as good as these greats , 

      then it can be termed not  only as hype  but absolute stupidity. 

     Again , these guys are not finished products. Mostly here discussing about pace one of the basic and imp tool to be a success . 

     You need to have seam movement, swing , cutters, yorkers , subtle change in pace apart from pace to be a real good one . 

     and above all consistency  while doing all this. None of them have all these ATM.

     We need to keep this in mind before do the  cry  ... Hype ... hype

     Some of them will get a real hiding  from world stars when they make the grade. 

     But sooner they develop the required skill and improve would make them stay afloat in international level.

     Hope once top 6 of the lot is identified by selectors , each of the 6 should be given at least 3-4 matches in the next 12-15 months in  

     whatever  international format / A team , so that each one will know where he stands and what additional skill need to possessed or

    perfected.  Making them play another 2 seasons without any international exposure will ruin many a career.

    

  

Some people don't understand the difference between hype and potential. 

[vishalvirsingh]

was kulwant bought by any ipl team?

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

was kulwant bought by any ipl team?

MI

[rkt.india]

Really hope Kulwant gets some games. It will fast forward his progress.