Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[tweaker]

Mustafizur 133 k

[tweaker]

Mustafizur is not able to inswing the ball now

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

What a stellar display of "phaast" bowling by the legend Umesh  

All the 3 Lankan frontline seamers, which included Malinga, were more expensive than Umesh and all went at more than 7 runs an over.

 

Shows what kind of a flat track it was. Things need to be seen in perspective.

 

There days, in LOIs played on super-flat tracks, being expensive is inevitable in a few matches for every bowler. The normally economical Jadeja has given away 8.66 runs per over.

 

Problem arises only if Umesh or any other bowler is expensive in a high percentage of matches....in which case that bowler needs to be dropped.

 

Another point I found strange was that Umesh was bowled so much in the slog overs when we had Bumrah and Bhuvi....who are much better at the end. Resources need to be utilized judiciously...Umesh has wicket taking ability in the first 40 overs and is bad in the last 10. When 2 end-over specialists are present, they should have bowled the last 7 or 8 overs and Umesh utilized more between overs 30 to 40.

[Ultimate_Game]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

All the 3 Lankan frontline seamers, which included Malinga, were more expensive than Umesh and all went at more than 7 runs an over.

 

Shows what kind of a flat track it was. Things need to be seen in perspective.

 

There days, in LOIs played on super-flat tracks, being expensive is inevitable in a few matches for every bowler. The normally economical Jadeja has given away 8.66 runs per over.

 

Problem arises only if Umesh or any other bowler is expensive in a high percentage of matches....in which case that bowler needs to be dropped.

 

Another point I found strange was that Umesh was bowled so much in the slog overs when we had Bumrah and Bhuvi....who are much better at the end. Resources need to be utilized judiciously...Umesh has wicket taking ability in the first 40 overs and is bad in the last 10. When 2 end-over specialists are present, they should have bowled the last 7 or 8 overs and Umesh utilized more between overs 30 to 40.

This I fully agree with. And that's why the main reason for the defeat is not Umesh but the decision to bowl him at the death. I've already mentioned it a few times and have opened a thread about it as well. We picked Umesh for his wicket taking abilities as we think he gives us the best chance to pick up wkts. He's not renowned for his bowling at the death and we already have two pacers in Bhuvi and Bumrah who excel in that role.

 

So why wasn't Umesh bowled more in the middle overs when we had to pick wkts?  Why were umesh's overs saved for the death? Surely bowling out SL was the only way we could win after the 2nd wkt partnership had prospered and yet Umesh wasn't bowled at all in the middle overs. Even if he hadn't picked up wkts, Umesh would've been far less expensive in the middle overs as SL batsmen couldn't have attacked him for fear of losing wkts which in turn would've increased the RR and made Bhuvi & Bumrah useful in the death overs. But i didn' see any strategy or plan in the field. It was as if India expected SL to implode and lose just because we had put up 321 on the board. There was never any real attempt to pick wkts during the middle overs and IMO we missed a huge trick by not bowling Umesh in that period.

 

Umesh, and Shami, are more of wkt takers. They are not in the team to bowl at the death or to keep the runs down at the death. If that's what team and Kohli wants from them then we have picked wrong players. Both Umesh and Shami have to bowl majority of overs up front and in the middle overs. For Shami maybe save a couple for the death but that's about it. We have Bhuvi & Bumrah for death overs and Umesh/Shami's role should be to pick wkts early on and during middle overs.

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

This I fully agree with. And that's why the main reason for the defeat is not Umesh but the decision to bowl him at the death. I've already mentioned it a few times and have opened a thread about it as well. We picked Umesh for his wicket taking abilities as we think he gives us the best chance to pick up wkts. He's not renowned for his bowling at the death and we already have two pacers in Bhuvi and Bumrah who excel in that role.

 

So why wasn't Umesh bowled more in the middle overs when we had to pick wkts?  Why were umesh's overs saved for the death? Surely bowling out SL was the only way we could win after the 2nd wkt partnership had prospered and yet Umesh wasn't bowled at all in the middle overs. Even if he hadn't picked up wkts, Umesh would've been far less expensive in the middle overs as SL batsmen couldn't have attacked him for fear of losing wkts which in turn would've increased the RR and made Bhuvi & Bumrah useful in the death overs. But i didn' see any strategy or plan in the field. It was as if India expected SL to implode and lose just because we had put up 321 on the board. There was never any real attempt to pick wkts during the middle overs and IMO we missed a huge trick by not bowling Umesh in that period.

 

Umesh, and Shami, are more of wkt takers. They are not in the team to bowl at the death or to keep the runs down at the death. If that's what team and Kohli wants from them then we have picked wrong players. Both Umesh and Shami have to bowl majority of overs up front and in the middle overs. For Shami maybe save a couple for the death but that's about it. We have Bhuvi & Bumrah for death overs and Umesh/Shami's role should be to pick wkts early on and during middle overs.

I'll tell you why VK didn't bowl Umesh in the middle.  Jaddu was already leaking runs by the 9s, and he didn't want another leaker on.   He was waiting for a break in the momentum, but it never came.  He bowled Yadav when he was forced to.   

[Ultimate_Game]

16 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I'll tell you why VK didn't bowl Umesh in the middle.  Jaddu was already leaking runs by the 9s, and he didn't want another leaker on.   He was waiting for a break in the momentum, but it never came.  He bowled Yadav when he was forced to.   

But he had to know that at the death batsmen will go after Umesh and he would leak runs. Kohli had to bowl Umesh earlier and hope that his strike bowler would get a wkt or two and get us back in to the game. But unfortunately Kohli's plan was hoping SL batsmen threw it away which never happened, and TBH won't happen against better teams.

[Rightarmfast]

Anyway, Umesh bowled a fastest of 148k's. And he touched 145,147k's pretty consistently in his 2nd spell. 

 

Personally, someone bowling bad in just one match means nothing. Everybody is going haywire as if Indians have forgotten how to play. Let's see what happens in the next match and then speak.

[Ultimate_Game]

6 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Anyway, Umesh bowled a fastest of 148k's. And he touched 145,147k's pretty consistently in his 2nd spell. 

 

Personally, someone bowling bad in just one match means nothing. Everybody is going haywire as if Indians have forgotten how to play. Let's see what happens in the next match and then speak.

 

Yup bowling bad and being taken to cleaners is nothing. It's all about speed and being "phaast"  

 

I guess Umesh's career ER in shorter formats is also due to a few occasional bad games. After all he so "phaast"  

[express bowling]

52 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Anyway, Umesh bowled a fastest of 148k's. And he touched 145,147k's pretty consistently in his 2nd spell. 

 

Personally, someone bowling bad in just one match means nothing. Everybody is going haywire as if Indians have forgotten how to play. Let's see what happens in the next match and then speak.

 

Agree

 

Both Bumrah and Umesh bowled 138 k to 148 k range mostly. Bhuvi bowled 134 k to 144 k. 

 

Bumrah and Bhuvi were accurate and economical and Umesh did decently till the 40th over.

 

We also have Shami who is quick and skillful.

 

Bumrah and Bhuvi are good at the end too.

 

When we have such a pool of pacy bowlers who are accurate....success is bound to come more often than not.

 

Our pace attack did well in 3 out of the 4 matches so far.

 

Just a match back, our bowling was being considered as one of the strongest in CT.

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by express bowling

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Anyway, Umesh bowled a fastest of 148k's. And he touched 145,147k's pretty consistently in his 2nd spell. 

 

Personally, someone bowling bad in just one match means nothing. Everybody is going haywire as if Indians have forgotten how to play. Let's see what happens in the next match and then speak.

I wonder if Umesh lost a bit of accuracy because of his pace, i liked him better in his new 135 - 142 sudden steep bounce and swing avatar got lots of wickets, and hurried batsmen more. If he can not do it bring back Shami.

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

But he had to know that at the death batsmen will go after Umesh and he would leak runs. Kohli had to bowl Umesh earlier and hope that his strike bowler would get a wkt or two and get us back in to the game. But unfortunately Kohli's plan was hoping SL batsmen threw it away which never happened, and TBH won't happen against better teams.

i was certain he will bring on Umesh and Yuvi once Jadeja tanked, but was surprised when he came on lol.

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Yup bowling bad and being taken to cleaners is nothing. It's all about speed and being "phaast"  

 

I guess Umesh's career ER in shorter formats is also due to a few occasional bad games. After all he so "phaast"  

bad post. Umesh definitely improved recently.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, Vilander said:

i was certain he will bring on Umesh and Yuvi once Jadeja tanked, but was surprised when he came on lol.

That was pretty shocking too. TBH I was expecting Umesh to be brought back and thought he may actually try an over or two from Yuvi if Umesh doesn't work out  

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

That was pretty shocking too. TBH I was expecting Umesh to be brought back and thought he may actually try an over or two from Yuvi if Umesh doesn't work out  

for me it was crucial Umesh comes back gets 1 wicket. And Yuvi gets in 2-3 quite overs, then Bhuvi/Bhumrah come back - looked clear but never happened. Well thats that, but its good now they need to win against SA no matter what.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, Vilander said:

bad post. Umesh definitely improved recently.

In Tests yes and i've always maintained that. he's our best bowler in tests just like Rahane is one of our best batsmen in tests. But I'm sorry to say I've never been sold on Umesh in shorter formats. His ER is way too high for him to be a reliable bowling option in shorter formats. The thing about Umesh is he looks like a million dollars against a team like Pakistan who aren't attacking him. But the moment batsmen go after him he loses it.

 

I've maintained that Umesh should stick to tests and Bumrah to shorter formats. I can see that Bumrah will not succeed in tests as he relies on batsmen going after him for wkts and Umesh relies on batsmen NOT going after him to succeed.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

for me it was crucial Umesh comes back gets 1 wicket. And Yuvi gets in 2-3 quite overs, then Bhuvi/Bhumrah come back - looked clear but never happened. Well thats that, but its good now they need to win against SA no matter what.

I was hoping for the same. I wanted Umesh to bowl 3-4 overs in the middle, take a wkt and even if he doesn't at least not go for more than 4-5 rpo and then Bhuvi & Bumrah could be a factor if the reqd RR jumped high. I'm still trying to fathom why Umesh didn't bowl in the middle overs and am surprised nobody brought it up in the post match press conference.

[Vilander]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

I was hoping for the same. I wanted Umesh to bowl 3-4 overs in the middle, take a wkt and even if he doesn't at least not go for more than 4-5 rpo and then Bhuvi & Bumrah could be a factor if the reqd RR jumped high. I'm still trying to fathom why Umesh didn't bowl in the middle overs and am surprised nobody brought it up in the post match press conference.

muddled thinking, only outside guess it Kohli-Kumble rift, did they not have plan a, b,c ? we could speculate.

[Vilander]

7 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

In Tests yes and i've always maintained that. he's our best bowler in tests just like Rahane is one of our best batsmen in tests. But I'm sorry to say I've never been sold on Umesh in shorter formats. His ER is way too high for him to be a reliable bowling option in shorter formats. The thing about Umesh is he looks like a million dollars against a team like Pakistan who aren't attacking him. But the moment batsmen go after him he loses it.

 

I've maintained that Umesh should stick to tests and Bumrah to shorter formats. I can see that Bumrah will not succeed in tests as he relies on batsmen going after him for wkts and Umesh relies on batsmen NOT going after him to succeed.

yes, that is true he does loose it once he gets attacked, even Ishant tries to fight back often not being effective but tries, Umesh just bowls tripe once hit.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

yes, that is true he does loose it once he gets attacked, even Ishant tries to fight back often not being effective but tries, Umesh just bowls tripe once hit.

This is the main reason I've never been sold on Umesh in shorter formats. The guy is a mental midget and when attacked simply bottles it. He's Rahane of shorter format bowling.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

I wonder if Umesh lost a bit of accuracy because of his pace, i liked him better in his new 135 - 142 sudden steep bounce and swing avatar got lots of wickets, and hurried batsmen more. If he can not do it bring back Shami.

I don't think Umesh has bowled 135 k to 142 k in a single match in recent times.

 

135 k to 146 k / 148 k has been his standard pace in almost all the matches he has bowled well.

Edited June 9, 2017 by express bowling