Jump to content
express bowling

Speed and performance of pacers and spinners in important matches

Recommended Posts

yadav should be with team in tests and aaron in odis and in long run they should play all formats but currently he is not good enough to be test bowler
why do you think he isnt good enough for tests? He will never be until he plays. You dont get ready made bowlers in India.

Share this post


Link to post
why do you think he isnt good enough for tests? He will never be until he plays. You dont get ready made bowlers in India.
like i said he should get ready in a tours and odis and i simply believe he does not moves the ball enough and even that warm ups proved it and in new zealand only time he swung ball was when it was wide i did not really see him beat bat many times he should target tests in australia as those conditions will suit him the most even with his current limitations

Share this post


Link to post
like i said he should get ready in a tours and odis and i simply believe he does not moves the ball enough and even that warm ups proved it and in new zealand only time he swung ball was when it was wide i did not really see him beat bat many times he should target tests in australia as those conditions will suit him the most even with his current limitations
there is no evidence as we have not seen him bowl in helpful conditions. In NZ ODI, no Indian bowler really moved the ball. He id swung a bit. Even warmups here, he was one of our better bowlers, certainly better than Ishant, created chances too. He bowled the most maidens in first warmup. You are just assuming that he doesnt move the ball. While you can see in ODIs and one test that did move the ball and got wickets. Even in IPL, he got half decent helpful conditions in UAE and he was one if the best pacer. He would have been handful on this Lords track.

Share this post


Link to post
one odd match can be exception and they were far quicker' date=' not 120-125.[/quote'] We cannot discard players based on far fetched assumptions. He is a skilled bowler. Proven Kumar had the entire top,order poking and prodding in the CB final. BK Is an upgraded version of PK

Share this post


Link to post
there is no evidence as we have not seen him bowl in helpful conditions. In NZ ODI' date=' no Indian bowler really moved the ball. He id swung a bit. Even warmups here, he was one of our better bowlers, certainly better than Ishant, created chances too. He bowled the most maidens in first warmup. You are just assuming that he doesnt move the ball. While you can see in ODIs and one test that did move the ball and got wickets. Even in IPL, he got half decent helpful conditions in UAE and he was one if the best pacer. He would have been handful on this Lords track.[/quote'] i am not assuming naything i have seen enough of him to conclude this ...obviously he will move ball some times but its hardly a wicket taking ball and about maidens they can be misleading also about ipl i told you already way he got wickets will not work in test cricket...mos wickets were when batsmen were gong after him not where he got their edge off good ball he did get some wickets with extra bounce and pace but in tests people just will leave those balls

Share this post


Link to post
We cannot discard players based on far fetched assumptions. He is a skilled bowler. Proven Kumar had the entire top' date='order poking and prodding in the CB final. BK Is an upgraded version of PK[/quote'] I am not discarding him. It is you are who are making assumptions based on one match of Pathan and RP at Perth. Even Umesh took fifer there. Once he plays, we will know about it in those conditions. It is early too judge him where he has not played. He has played in India and here it will be not easy for him.

Share this post


Link to post
i am not assuming naything i have seen enough of him to conclude this ...obviously he will move ball some times but its hardly a wicket taking ball and about maidens they can be misleading also about ipl i told you already way he got wickets will not work in test cricket...mos wickets were when batsmen were gong after him not where he got their edge off good ball he did get some wickets with extra bounce and pace but in tests people just will leave those balls
You are certainly assuming when he has not played any much helpful conditions yet and at his pace he doesnt need to move the ball a lot. He is the only bowler who decent bouncers in this team and at pace and if leaving was so easy, batsmen would have left Johnson all day long because you dont get many wickets with bouncers but the by the doubts that pacey bouncers create on fuller deliveries and he is pretty good with reverse swing too. The quartet for BK, Shami, Yadav, Aaron is what we need to develop and turn into world class bowlers to win tests overseas.

Share this post


Link to post

Our bowlers have done well so far in this test series even though the wickets were flat. Can't have all prospects in a pace bowling attack of 3 bowlers. The bench bowlers as well as those not in squad have to wait for their turn. The way our bowlers are bowling we have more probability of winning this test. I don't see any changes especially if we win. The second and third choice bowling attack has to wait in case the first choice bowlers are winning the test for us.

Share this post


Link to post

Shami bowled with better pace yesterday. Signs of coming back in rhythm. Ishant bowled his usual pace, Bowled well TBH. Didn't see Bhuvi bowl yesterday. But WHY IS BINNY IN THE TEAM?

Share this post


Link to post
This pitch is suddenly responding more to hit the deck bowling , especially due to uneven bounce and ball rearing up from length. It would be nice if we had atleast one good quality ,quick , hit the deck bowler.
This is what I was talking about. Thankfully, Ishant stepped up and donned the bouncy fast bowler's hat.

Share this post


Link to post

Wonderful bowling by Ishant. His seam position has improved in this series. It showed in the plethora of hostile, quick bouncers. The workload he took ,by bowling so many short balls, is amazing. Well done !! I hope he maintains it from now on. I am overjoyed to see India win by bowling a barrage of quick, hostile bouncers. :yay: :yay:

Share this post


Link to post

This innings has outlined the importance of pace and bounce when the ball is not moving. This test has highlighted the importance of combining different types of bowlers to take care of different conditions in test match. A swing bowler taking wickets when swing is on offer and a bounce bowler hitting the deck when that is required.

Share this post


Link to post
Ishant was suddenly bowling 85mph consistently. How did that happen:cantstop:
Support from the captain. For the first time in his life perhaps, Dhoni has instructed a pacer to bowl all out fast and bounce out the batsmen. Placed appropriate fielders too. The result is there for all to see. A supporting captain is the basic necessity to developing fast bowlers.

Share this post


Link to post
Support from the captain. For the first time in his life perhaps, Dhoni has instructed a pacer to bowl all out fast and bounce out the batsmen. Placed appropriate fielders too. The result is there for all to see. A supporting captain is the basic necessity to developing fast bowlers.
No thats not true dhoni did the same against sa in kolkatta and ishant did well and they tried it many times.The Fact is when it fails ishant is blamed when it gets wicket captain takes credit/

Share this post


Link to post
Shami has done enough to stay.I'd chose Pankaj for Bunny
Shami has not been bad. But, in England, either conventional swing or bounce is working. Shami's forte is reverse swing at pace. He gets conventional swing too but not getting much this series. So, Pankaj, with conventional swing and bounce AND Aaron with pace and bounce, maybe better picks just for this series.

Share this post


Link to post
Shami has not been bad. But, in England, either conventional swing or bounce is working. Shami's forte is reverse swing at pace. He gets conventional swing too but not getting much this series. So, Pankaj, with conventional swing and bounce AND Aaron with pace and bounce, maybe better picks just for this series.
He is more of a seam bowler.He has not been consistent but he will come good.

Share this post


Link to post
Shami has not been bad. But, in England, either conventional swing or bounce is working. Shami's forte is reverse swing at pace. He gets conventional swing too but not getting much this series. So, Pankaj, with conventional swing and bounce AND Aaron with pace and bounce, maybe better picks just for this series.
He was better in this series.I think he just needs to bowl bit fuller and he'll get it. I'd chose Pankaj over Aaron as he can get swing and bounce.Aaron is faster but I doubt he can get movement or has required control.Hes bit like Plunkett

Share this post


Link to post
He is more of a seam bowler.He has not been consistent but he will come good.
e Shami bowls conventional swing, seaming deliveries as well as reverse swing. Basically everything. Also , he is more of a skiddy pacer. Bowling lots of bouncers is not his forte. Most of his wicket taking spells have been on low surfaces where he has got reverse swing and some seam movement. In England , a pacer like Pankaj, who gets more bounce and conventional swing maybe a better option for the time being. I am suggesting horses for courses. Otherwise, I think Shami is a fine pacer by Indian standards.

Share this post


Link to post
Shami has done enough to stay.I'd chose Pankaj for Bunny
That makes the batting thinner.Ashwin should come in for Binny.Pankaj for Shami if a change is necessary.The balance of the team shouldn't be tinkered with.

Share this post


Link to post
That makes the batting thinner.Ashwin should come in for Binny.Pankaj for Shami if a change is necessary.The balance of the team shouldn't be tinkered with.
With Bhuvi batting well, we have batting till 8 even without Binny. Something which was not thought of before this series. This might give us the option for an extra pacer.

Share this post


Link to post
With Bhuvi batting well, we have batting till 8 even without Binny. Something which was not thought of before this series. This might give us the option for an extra pacer.
Don't have any faith on Dhoni & Jadeja,both are hit or miss in overseas tests.We need a guy like Ashwin there at 7.

Share this post


Link to post
Don't have any faith on Dhoni & Jadeja,both are hit or miss in overseas tests.We need a guy like Ashwin there at 7.
No man. You need to think both ways. Ashwin's bowling is poor in overseas. Jaddu has done good enough to be in squad. PS : Jaddu is not a test material though.

Share this post


Link to post
Little bit disappointed with Shami overall' date=' hope he steps up rest of the series[/quote'] Already said, fitness doesnt look good due to excess flab. Kohli said he is the most lazy played in the team and that shows in his fitness. Munaf was same. He did put more effort in this innings but was underbowled. He is still struggling with his action and runup, not balanced enough.

Share this post


Link to post
dropping shami will be a mistake as he is getting better and we did same with umesh and look how it ended up .. today he was asked to bowl short which is not his game
If resting Shami for a couple of matches means the end of the road for Shami then I have to agree. It is possible for Dhoni to walk that path. Shami is still the best pacer for subcontinent tests for me. Those low , skiddy, reverse swinging , quick deliveries can be lethal in the subcontinent. However, if horses for courses policy can be followed by our captain, Pankaj might be a better bet in England.

Share this post


Link to post
If resting Shami for a couple of matches means the end of the road for Shami then I have to agree. It is possible for Dhoni to walk that path. Shami is still the best pacer for subcontinent tests for me. Those low , skiddy, reverse swinging , quick deliveries can be lethal in the subcontinent. However, if horses for courses policy can be followed by our captain, Pankaj might be a better bet in England.
after 2 games where he kept getting better and better you want to rest young bowler ? also pankaj should come in for binny and shami is easily better than pankaj or pandey its just matter of clicking and i will never support such knee jerk dropping of players when he is not even bowling that badly there have been catches dropped of him and some times he had to bowl in conditions not suiting him...dropping him would be like dropping umesh..i know you want to try pankaj,aaron or pandey but imo none of them are as good as this guy when he is in rhythm and they should play but not at his positon if you are worried about batting then remember that even bhuvi and jadeja scored

Share this post


Link to post

also remember one inning ago people wanted ishant out and i said he is bowling well ...you just do not drop players for not winning match you only drop them when they do nothing or lose matches

Share this post


Link to post
In outside subcontinent tests , every team needs atleast 2 pacers who can bowl good bouncers. In England, you need atleast 2 swing bowlers too. Only Pankaj will give both options. Plus, he is a wicket taker. That's why I want him in the team.
i am not even sure that pankaj can bowl short and do well he is more of a swing bowler and only got bit of pace after working hard also you also need more than 1 bowler who can swing and seam the ball and no one comes close to shami when he is rhythm

Share this post


Link to post
In outside subcontinent tests , every team needs atleast 2 pacers who can bowl good bouncers. In England, you need atleast 2 swing bowlers too. Only Pankaj will give both options. Plus, he is a wicket taker. That's why I want him in the team.
Whom will you drop? The only guy dispensable in this team right now is binny and replacing him with pankaj who will not bring in anything new that shami,ishant or Bhuvi don't already have will be pointless. 3. Options are Ashwin,rohit and may be if we want to rattle the English with further pace than maybe Aaron. Pandey is obviously behind pankaj in the order.

Share this post


Link to post
Whom will you drop? The only guy dispensable in this team right now is binny and replacing him with pankaj who will not bring in anything new that shami,ishant or Bhuvi don't already have will be pointless. 3. Options are Ashwin,rohit and may be if we want to rattle the English with further pace than maybe Aaron. Pandey is obviously behind pankaj in the order.
aaron brings in good pace and his bouncers as we saw today can be deadly but not at place of shami but at place of binny

Share this post


Link to post
aaron brings in good pace and his bouncers as we saw today can be deadly but not at place of shami but at place of binny
Yep that's what I am saying.....shami can be as good as Bhuvan with the new ball with extra pace....obviously Bhuvi is better on current form and his overall consistency

Share this post


Link to post
Yep that's what I am saying.....shami can be as good as Bhuvan with the new ball with extra pace....obviously Bhuvi is better on current form and his overall consistency
yep but you never know if in next match bhuvi is ineffective and shami picks wickets its very normal thing and not worth dropping players after every game heck play batsman if you want to but what is point of playing binny and ignoring him during game ?

Share this post


Link to post
Whom will you drop? The only guy dispensable in this team right now is binny and replacing him with pankaj who will not bring in anything new that shami,ishant or Bhuvi don't already have will be pointless. 3. Options are Ashwin,rohit and may be if we want to rattle the English with further pace than maybe Aaron. Pandey is obviously behind pankaj in the order.
Binny is the obvious dropping candidate. Who his replacement should be should depend on the type of pitch. I would prefer Pankaj. There are lots of takers for Aaron or Ashwin too. If not Pankaj then Aaron.

Share this post


Link to post
Binny is the obvious dropping candidate. Who his replacement should be should depend on the type of pitch. I would prefer Pankaj. There are lots of takers for Aaron or Ashwin too. If not Pankaj then Aaron.
it will depend on track but you pretty much summed up scenarios they might also think about playing rohit but if track is flat it will kill 4 man bowling attack

Share this post


Link to post
also who said we need 2 bowlers which are good at bouncing ? most teams have one such guy
How ? South Africa has Morkel who is constantly bouncing and Steyn who can unfurl a series of hostility bouncers as and when required. Australia usually has all 3 pacers who can and does bowl effective bouncers. England often have 4 pacers who can bowl decent to good bouncers. Like this team. NZ specializes in multiple tall, bounce bowlers. If you consider all time great pace attacks. Garner, Holding, Roberts, Marshall. McGrath, Gillespie, Lee. Walsh, Ambrose, Bishop, Patterson. Lillee, Thompson. All these bowlers bowled multiple vicious bouncers. Sometimes almost all day.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Guest, sign in to access all features.

×