BBC Greatest ODI XI

[sweetaskandy]

Sobers only played 1 ODI so I don't consider him for ODI x1s. But his list A returns are excellent and well Sobers is proven to be King of the Hill. Greatest player of all time.

[MCGGG]

Not 1 Australian in the top 5? Major Lolz.

[CG]

Ms dhoni over gilly at 6 anyday.

[brendan07]

Ms dhoni over gilly at 6 anyday.

Look at the World Cup records. Gilchrist has done a bit more although it is close.

[brendan07]

He is arguably best ODI spinner of all time.

Not in WORLD CUPS! We are talking about a World cup, he won none. Warne was better period, you don't need 2 spinners.

[akshayxyz]

I personally do not like the concept of dedicated all-rounder spot, but if there has to be one - it has to go to Kapil. Kallis / Sobers take that in tests.

[sensible-indian]

That's fine - it's your choice. But the evidence is clear - most people don't pick him. His medium pace is not a better pick that genuine pace offered by others. His lower order slogging is nothing special either.

Then why was he the No 1 allrounder for a DECADE when the world had 4 ATG allrounders? We are not talking about rankings during a peak season or a few series. We are talking about a decade. What does this evidence tell you? Let me present an argument as to why others don't make it 1. Kallis - Batting too slow for ATG lineups (in fact he will be a burden for the rest - as a support 5th bowler he is fine) 2. Imran (didn't bowl most of the WC games - batting too slow for a top 7 batsman) 3. Sobers (unproven - maybe he could have been THE GUY but can't assume stuff) 4. Botham (at his best he was awesome both with the ball and bat but it was only for a few years but still in World XI we look at a player performing at his best) 5. Kapil (good enough for a support bowler - incredible economy and perfect hitter for a No 7 bat - SR of 124 in the 80s....that's equivalent to ATLEAST 150 in today's era....name one player who strikes at 150 in today's era...and Kapil averaged 37 in WCs - you can say it was boosted by not outs and 175 but his position is freaking No 7 and that spot will have not outs plus his run sample set is similar to someone like Imran in WCs) So what does ICC objective ranking system for a HUGE SAMPLE SET (1 decade) tell you? What does my breakdown of all other ARs tell you? The reason Kapil doesn't get picked is because people focus too much on test performance. The very fact that Bevan isn't in anyone's list shows how biased people are towards the test format even when picking ODI XI. And by the way in the other forum, ALL nuetral (non Indian and non Pak) posters picked Kapil over Imran.

[sensible-indian]

Allrounder will ONLY have a splay a support bowler role and Kapil's superior economy and awesome batting SR makes him the best candidate for the World XI. If sample set isn't an issue, then Lance Klusener > Kapil. I would pick Lance. But most experts would pick Kallis which is a JOKE of a selection in ODIs.

[sensible-indian]

As far as Kapil's lower order slogging isn't special, take a look at this image http://postimg.org/image/3msy21s0x/ Look at the sample set of runs. Viv Richards scored 1110 as a pure bat in WCs. Crowe scored 880 as a pure bat in WCs. Kapil scored 669 as a lower order slogger striking at 115 with average of 37 in WCs.

[sensible-indian]

Now I would like anyone to present a logical explanation on why a bowler with the best economy (ideal for a support bowler to ATGs in world XI) and a batsmen with 115 SR in the 80s era will not make it for the No 7 allrounder slot? I would like to know a logical answer.

[Marut]

This refers to ODI cricket only. What Dev did in test cricket is not the issue here. Now Dev has 1 ton in 230 odd games. That too against Zimbabwe in 1983. That is not a glittering record. Even Afridi - who is a slogger - has 4 or so tons I think in his 380 odd games? Add to that much more 50's if I am not mistaken. Some of those tons have come against India and ourselves - each better than 1983 Zimbabwe. :giggle: Cut it however you wish. Those are not great stats from the 'great' allrounder. We all laugh at Afridi's batting - swing and a miss :cantstop: - but his returns are akin to Kapil's. I have linked to 20 odd expert/player picks, 1 picks Dev. This notion of him as some sort of superman is pure Indian BS. In tests he was an average bowler and an ok bat - 1 good player when combined. In ODIs - which is the issue at hand - he was a good bowler and a lower order slogger. You forget I am in my mid 40s and saw plenty of Dev. He is correctly placed by neutrals as a solid pro - not equal to Botham or Imran or Hadlee in value to a team in either format. So why do you guys cry and whinge when hardly anyone picks him in their X1?

Ton hitting wasn't a common thing in the early days of ODI cricket. Kapil hit the first 100 by an Indian actually. Even top order batsmen like Richards scored only 11 tons at the end of his career. Today, Kohli at age 26 has 21 tons!! I am surprised that you do not know this after claiming to have watched cricket in the 80s. Most top order batsmen like Gooch, Richards, Abbas, Miandad, Gower, Srikkanth - had like 5 or 6 centuries over the an entire decade. The only exceptions were Haynes and Greenidge who made more than 10, since they were openers, and very good there. From batting positions #6 to 11, Kapil was among the very few century makers of the 80s. When the par score is 220, where in the world does a #7 batsman who walks in by the 35th over get the opportunity to make plenty of 100s? Kapil dev had eleven 50's in the 80s low down the order, which was easily the highest at those batting positions You can say whatever you want. Kapil was #1 on ODI rankings for several years straight(for most of the 80s actually), no all rounder matched his ODI ratings in history, in fact no one came close. The so called neutral ratings don't mean anything when Kapil's records speak for themselves. Have you seen Bradman's so called World XI? How "neutral" is it, anyway?

[MCGGG]

Then why was he the No 1 allrounder for a DECADE when the world had 4 ATG allrounders? We are not talking about rankings during a peak season or a few series. We are talking about a decade. What does this evidence tell you? Let me present an argument as to why others don't make it 1. Kallis - Batting too slow for ATG lineups (in fact he will be a burden for the rest - as a support 5th bowler he is fine) 2. Imran (didn't bowl most of the WC games - batting too slow for a top 7 batsman) 3. Sobers (unproven - maybe he could have been THE GUY but can't assume stuff) 4. Botham (at his best he was awesome both with the ball and bat but it was only for a few years but still in World XI we look at a player performing at his best) 5. Kapil (good enough for a support bowler - incredible economy and perfect hitter for a No 7 bat - SR of 124 in the 80s....that's equivalent to ATLEAST 150 in today's era....name one player who strikes at 150 in today's era...and Kapil averaged 37 in WCs - you can say it was boosted by not outs and 175 but his position is freaking No 7 and that spot will have not outs plus his run sample set is similar to someone like Imran in WCs) So what does ICC objective ranking system for a HUGE SAMPLE SET (1 decade) tell you? What does my breakdown of all other ARs tell you? The reason Kapil doesn't get picked is because people focus too much on test performance. The very fact that Bevan isn't in anyone's list shows how biased people are towards the test format even when picking ODI XI. And by the way in the other forum, ALL nuetral (non Indian and non Pak) posters picked Kapil over Imran.

Surely Bevan gets the allround spot, he was a very underrated bowler.

[Marut]

Now I would like anyone to present a logical explanation on why a bowler with the best economy (ideal for a support bowler to ATGs in world XI) and a batsmen with 115 SR in the 80s era will not make it for the No 7 allrounder slot? I would like to know a logical answer.

Because he is an Indian.

[Scarves]

Ms dhoni over gilly at 6 anyday.

Yeah but Gilchrist opens so blah.

[Sidhoni]

Ms dhoni over gilly at 6 anyday.

:icflove:

Look at the World Cup records. Gilchrist has done a bit more although it is close.

Gilly should open instead of Gayle.

[sensible-indian]

Surely Bevan gets the allround spot' date=' he was a very underrated bowler.[/quote'] Bevan gets a pure batsman spot. Forget the allrounder. My XI: SRT Sanath Ponting Viv Bevan Gilly (WK) Kapil (Lance Klusener if big sample set isn't a requirement) Wasim Warne McGrath Brett Lee If its a spin track, I would remove Lee and bring in Saqlain. With this lineup: 1. I have 6 bowlers to finish 50 overs. Viv and Bevan can bowl a few overs if needed. 2. Gilly and Kapil for late order burst and Bevan for stabilization if needed 3. Top order speaks for itself 4. 4 ATG bowlers along with a perfect 1 economical support bowler (Kapil or Lance) to complete 50 overs.

[Scarves]

Bevan gets a pure batsman spot. Forget the allrounder. My XI: SRT Sanath Ponting Viv Bevan Gilly (WK) Kapil (Lance Klusener if big sample set isn't a requirement) Wasim Warne McGrath Brett Lee If its a spin track, I would remove Lee and bring in Saqlain. With this lineup: 1. I have 6 bowlers to finish 50 overs. Viv and Bevan can bowl a few overs if needed. 2. Gilly and Kapil for late order burst and Bevan for stabilization if needed 3. Top order speaks for itself 4. 4 ATG bowlers along with a perfect 1 economical support bowler (Kapil or Lance) to complete 50 overs.

But Gilchrist was feared for him batting up the order which started the whole keeper that has to bat trend. Sure Sanath pushed the slogger mode but Gilchrist made it what it is. Also Bevan is way too high up the order. Should be 6 or 7 but it depends on depth. Also none of these bowlers are death bowler specialists or that can change the pace like umm an Allrounder Steve Waugh, Ian Botham, Chris Cairns, Starc or now with Faulkner.

[MCGGG]

Bevan gets a pure batsman spot. Forget the allrounder. My XI: SRT Sanath Ponting Viv Bevan Gilly (WK) Kapil (Lance Klusener if big sample set isn't a requirement) Wasim Warne McGrath Brett Lee If its a spin track, I would remove Lee and bring in Saqlain. With this lineup: 1. I have 6 bowlers to finish 50 overs. Viv and Bevan can bowl a few overs if needed. 2. Gilly and Kapil for late order burst and Bevan for stabilization if needed 3. Top order speaks for itself 4. 4 ATG bowlers along with a perfect 1 economical support bowler (Kapil or Lance) to complete 50 overs.

Lacks batting depth IMO, and McGrath before Lee? Here's my side. Gilchrist Tendulka Richards Ponting ABD Bevan Flintoff Khan Warne Lee Akram Freddy may not have the best ODI record, but if we're picking players based on their best I'd have him in, team is strong in batting and has more than enough bowling firepower.

[adi B]

lara,gayle,kallis are wrong choices

[sensible-indian]

Lacks batting depth IMO, and McGrath before Lee? Here's my side. Gilchrist Tendulka Richards Ponting ABD Bevan Flintoff Khan Warne Lee Akram Freddy may not have the best ODI record, but if we're picking players based on their best I'd have him in, team is strong in batting and has more than enough bowling firepower.

I agree. On second thoughts, the batting is a trifle weaker at the expense of more dynamism. As for McGrath before Lee, I just listed the bowlers. Not in the perfect batting order. Flintoff is a good choice. I also have an alternate version. The only reason I didn't pick Dhoni was because Dhoni hasn't performed in WCs barring the final. But if I were to be honest and consider Dhoni's whole career properly, he is on par if not better than Bevan as a finisher. Plus he can play anywhere in the XI. Bevan vs Dhoni is purely one's preference. Another version is this: SRT Gilly (WK and opener) Ponting Viv Dhoni Bevan Kapil or Lance Akram Warne Lee McGrath 2 solid openers. 2 solid middle order player. 2 ATG finishers who don't get out at all 1 No 7 slogger For bowling, I have 5 proper bowlers. Plus Viv and Bevan and even SRT to role their arms over in case its needed. 1. I feel having Sanath brings a new dimension to the lineup (both batting and bowling POV). Makes the lineup more dynamic at the cost of stability. 2. ABDV is actually a very good choice. Brings the perfect balance to the batting order and links top order with lower order. The only issue is that I am not sold on him as a pressure player in ODIs yet (in Tests, yeah he is). 3. Dhoni averages 55 at No 5 and can be called one of greatest pressure players along with Bevan.