Tendulkar at his peak

[Precambrian]

Talking about superb performances at one's peak: Link Viv averaged 58 in 99 ODIs at his peak from 76-85! .... Combine that with his trend setting and game changing SR!!

Viv Richards full ODI career - 187 matches, 6721 runs @ 47 (11 hundreds, 45 fifties) Sachin Tendulkar from 2001 to 2011 - 190 matches, 8212 runs @ 49.17 (21 hundreds, 45 fifties) To state the obvious, Sachin played more matches than Viv played in his entire career in those 11 years, which was arguably post his best batting peak (of late 90s), and despite including his worst phase in career (tennis elbow and other injuries in mid 2000s), and yet he manages to average much higher, despite having fewer not outs and opening the batting against the white ball.

[Precambrian]

Viv Richards played against just seven teams in his whole career, and in just seven countries. Sachin in those 11 years alone played against 15 countries! (Assuming WI as a country) and in 12 countries. To put into perspective, during 2001-2011, 17 non Indian bowlers averaged below 25 in ODI cricket (min 50 wickets). In Viv Richards's whole career time frame (1975-1991) just 9 non WI bowlers managed that feat. Undoubtedly the standard of bowling and level of competition was much much much higher during Sachin's career period. Let's examine the names of a few top bowlers during each batsmans' period: Sachin: (2001-2011 alone) Mcgrath Shane Bond Brett Lee Wasim Akram Waqar younis Muthiah Muralitharan Allan Donald Jason Gillespie Saeed Ajmal All of the above would walk into their sides' all time XIs. During Viv's period? Len Pascoe Ewan Chatfield Dennis lillee Richard Hadlee Carl Rackemann Terry Alderman Bob Willis Sarfaraz Nawaz Wasim and Waqar would also make this list, but they debuted in the last few years of Viv's career, when the latter was on decline as well. Other than Lillee, Hadlee and to some extent Willis, none of them would find a place in their respective team's XI

[CoverDrive]

i will keep this thread on top by lifting it everyday .. so that in future we can avoid threads like tenduklar vs rahim etc

why so insecure

[CSK Fan]

Bradman played 52 tests in a span of 20 years. War in between stopped cricket for several years. No one can maintain such form over 20 years. No comparison whatsoever.

They can (obviously not at Bradman's level) if playing same opposition you thrash every time, get enough rest in between and are not under as much pressure as today and don't face a wide variety of attacks

[Precambrian]

They can (obviously not at Bradman's level) if playing same opposition you thrash every time' date=' get enough rest in between and are not under as much pressure as today and don't face a wide variety of attacks[/quote'] A very good point missed by many. Bradman played a sum total of just 69 bowlers in his career in tests. Sachin played against 354 bowlers in tests. In ODIs he played against 507 bowlers. Amazing numbers those.

[Crookbond]

Bradman did not have the same medicines, doctors, helmets, 10,000 physios to take care of when injured, Mumbai Indians private jets, iPads, iPods and Kishore Kumar, RD Burman songs that Tendulkar listened so often during matches. Comparisons across eras is ridiculous.

[Raghav_12]

lol.. now this thread has gone in black hole zone. All posts will be sucked in one direction that is comparison between Sachin and Don. all the best participants from both sides of the border :-)

[Sid_SuhaiL]

[rkt.india]

Bradman did not have the same medicines' date=' doctors, helmets, 10,000 physios to take care of when injured, Mumbai Indians private jets, iPads, iPods and Kishore Kumar, RD Burman songs that Tendulkar listened so often during matches. Comparisons across eras is ridiculous.[/quote'] Bradman didnt have the same quality of bowlers to face too.

[velu]

I think batting was toughest during sachins era. Batting was not that difficult before and after his era.. bradman or viv few feasted on weak bowling and batsman friendly pitches. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cricket_Hacker]

Bowling during Bradman era was very average,even though pitches were grassy

[velu]

Bowling during Bradman era was very average' date='even though pitches were grassy[/quote'] But they played without helmets Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Muloghonto]

I think batting was toughest during sachins era. Batting was not that difficult before and after his era.. bradman or viv few feasted on weak bowling and batsman friendly pitches. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Err no. pitches were tougher for batsmen pre 65(i think) when they started covering pitches. Before that, spinners and medium pace bowlers who bowled cutters feasted. Pitches were very fast in australia and west indies till 2002/2003 or so. England and nz were super seamer friendly till 2003/2004 or so. Saffie pitches were pretty much the same..they are a bit less bouncy for the last 2/3 years. Big difference is india: india in the 70s and 90s made a lot of square turning dustbowls. Only time pitches were flat in india is in the 80s, when india didnt have a quality spinner and since 2005 or so when the aussies and english players whined too much. All in all, pitches for bradmans time were hardest but hardly any quality fast bowlers were around. Viv and tendy played on same type of pitches till 2004 or so. Tendy did face better quality bowling and carried a lot more pressure die to weaker batting lineup. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2

[Marut]

Here is a thing to consider: Tendulkar debuted as a sixteen year old and took some time to become an ATG player. Then he played for a couple of years past his best. These two things impacted his record. But one thing to consider- Tendulkar had jaw-dropping numbers for most of his career. If one considers a 'normal' cricketing span - such as players who show up as a finished product at the age of 20/21 ( Ponting, Inzamam, etc) and retire at 37/38, here is a startling fact: Tendulkar between January 1993 and January 2011 ( that is 18 years), had this record: Tests: 157 innings: 259 Not outs: 30 Runs: 13607 Average: 59.41 Centuries: 47 Fifties: 55 Record at home : 6536 runs @ 57.33, 22 centuries, 27 fifties Record away: 7071 runs @ 61.48, 25 centuries, 28 fifties lowest average : 44.66 in Paksitan, averaged 60+ in Aus, Bangladesh, SL and England, Averaged 50-60 in India, New Zealand and South Africa, averaged 45+in West Indies and Zimbabwe. Quite stunning.

No doubt Sachin was the best batsman for the past 30 years. I think older batsmen are hyped to some extent, so it could well be that Sachin is the best ever. Bradman's numbers are unreal for his era, but Bradman can't hold a candle to even batsmen like Sehwag in absolute ranking because cricket has evolved considerably since the 1930s. However, some of the blemishes in Sachin's records are 1. He never had a single series where he dominated every match, which is why he could not get past 500 runs in any test series. Sachin could rarely maintain a high scoring streak beyond two tests. Batsmen like Ponting, Lara, Dravid etc some times dominated the bowling so much that they took 500, 600 or 700 runs in a series multiple times in their career. 2. Sachin's failure to play big individual knocks - Sachin easily had the ability to get triple tons and more doubles tons than he managed. 3. Sachin's failure to play a Laxman 281 or Dravid 180/233 like legendary All time best knocks in pressure. 4. Sachin's failure to play a top knock at the top of the batting order. Sachin never left his comfort zone at #4 or below in his 200 match test career.

[Cricket_Hacker]

But they played without helmets Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Y u need helmets against trundlers

[sensible-indian]

No doubt Sachin was the best batsman for the past 30 years. I think older batsmen are hyped to some extent, so it could well be that Sachin is the best ever. Bradman's numbers are unreal for his era, but Bradman can't hold a candle to even batsmen like Sehwag in absolute ranking because cricket has evolved considerably since the 1930s. However, some of the blemishes in Sachin's records are 1. He never had a single series where he dominated every match, which is why he could not get past 500 runs in any test series. Sachin could rarely maintain a high scoring streak beyond two tests. Batsmen like Ponting, Lara, Dravid etc some times dominated the bowling so much that they took 500, 600 or 700 runs in a series multiple times in their career. 2. Sachin's failure to play big individual knocks - Sachin easily had the ability to get triple tons and more doubles tons than he managed. 3. Sachin's failure to play a Laxman 281 or Dravid 180/233 like legendary All time best knocks in pressure. 4. Sachin's failure to play a top knock at the top of the batting order. Sachin never left his comfort zone at #4 or below in his 200 match test career.

Good points. By the way, Sachin's 146 at Cape Town to setup a series win in SA was a legendary knock. Came against an ATG bowler at his home. Too bad Indian bowlers let off SA after getting them to 136-6 in 2nd innings. http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/match/463148.html Or the unbeaten century in the first test in the same series as we lost by an innings. http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/match/463146.html Sachin did play a lot of other knocks. Like 155 in Bloemfontein when India were at 60-4. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63951.html Or his match saving century in 1990 in England where he scored 100 in the 4th innings to save a match. He took India from 183-6 to 343-6. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63535.html Those are not as iconic as Laxman or Dravid's knocks but he did play quite a few of them. Other points I agree.

[CSK Fan]

No doubt Sachin was the best batsman for the past 30 years. I think older batsmen are hyped to some extent, so it could well be that Sachin is the best ever. Bradman's numbers are unreal for his era, but Bradman can't hold a candle to even batsmen like Sehwag in absolute ranking because cricket has evolved considerably since the 1930s. However, some of the blemishes in Sachin's records are 1. He never had a single series where he dominated every match, which is why he could not get past 500 runs in any test series. Sachin could rarely maintain a high scoring streak beyond two tests. Batsmen like Ponting, Lara, Dravid etc some times dominated the bowling so much that they took 500, 600 or 700 runs in a series multiple times in their career. 2. Sachin's failure to play big individual knocks - Sachin easily had the ability to get triple tons and more doubles tons than he managed. 3. Sachin's failure to play a Laxman 281 or Dravid 180/233 like legendary All time best knocks in pressure. 4. Sachin's failure to play a top knock at the top of the batting order. Sachin never left his comfort zone at #4 or below in his 200 match test career.

Can bring a 100 such stats for any player. Only in Sachin's case do we not look the many, many things he was extra-ordinary in and dissect only his weak points. Sachin was one of the best India had, yet the surprising thing is some Indians are the first one to try to demean him. And it is not surprising that these fans have been consistent fans of certain other players, almost like pulling Sachin down will cause their own player to shine in comparison. Never saw this with any Aussie, not even Pakistani fans pulling down their own legends like this.

[CSK Fan]

Good points. By the way, Sachin's 146 at Cape Town to setup a series win in SA was a legendary knock. Came against an ATG bowler at his home. Too bad Indian bowlers let off SA after getting them to 136-6 in 2nd innings. http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/match/463148.html Or the unbeaten century in the first test in the same series as we lost by an innings. http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/match/463146.html Sachin did play a lot of other knocks. Like 155 in Bloemfontein when India were at 60-4. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63951.html Or his match saving century in 1990 in England where he scored 100 in the 4th innings to save a match. He took India from 183-6 to 343-6. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63535.html Those are not as iconic as Laxman or Dravid's knocks but he did play quite a few of them. Other points I agree.

Don't forget his unbeatable 100 in the highest 4th innings chase in India. If any other player like Laxman or Dravid had played the knock, it would be hailed as one of the greatest knocks. Because it is Sachin, it became routine and Sehwag gets more praise

[sensible-indian]

Don't forget his unbeatable 100 in the highest 4th innings chase in India. If any other player like Laxman or Dravid had played the knock' date=' it would be hailed as one of the greatest knocks. Because it is Sachin, it became routine and Sehwag gets more praise[/quote'] That was a great knock. Sehwag set it up. SRT finished it off.

[sensible-indian]

Can bring a 100 such stats for any player. Only in Sachin's case do we not look the many, many things he was extra-ordinary in and dissect only his weak points. Sachin was one of the best India had, yet the surprising thing is some Indians are the first one to try to demean him. And it is not surprising that these fans have been consistent fans of certain other players, almost like pulling Sachin down will cause their own player to shine in comparison. Never saw this with any Aussie, not even Pakistani fans pulling down their own legends like this.

Bro, I don't think he is demeaning SRT. Sachin didn't have those 500 series or those big 200+ knocks as often as GOATs have. Its a valid criticism. Doesn't reduce what SRT was.