Whats with this BS of Pakistan "always" producing good fast bowlers?

[Temujin Khaghan]

the thing is not about how many 90mph bowlers or 300 wickets bowlers pak has produced it is about how quickly they mature. asif, mohammed amir etc matured very quickly into thinking fast bowlers. they dont get helpless, they have a plan for every situation. we all know the plight of srinath who actually took advice from zaheer during 2003 wc about his bowling, not the other way round. he always seemed helpless. he was never quite a dependable leader of his skill like kumble or tendulkar the only two fast bowlers who matured for india are kapil dev and zaheer khan. at the peak of their careers they were masters of their arts. for pakistan - fazal mahmood, ik, wy, was, aktar, amir, asif - so pak fast bowling was always more talented. look at shami, ishanth, yadav - these guys have poor fast bowler's attitude. on top of that they never mature into leaders of their skill like kohli, dravid, sachin, vvs, gavaskar did. the same can be said about pak batting now. their batsman dont quite mature the way indian batsman do. look at umar akmal, shehzad... they wont make it to India B team

[Guldozer]

the thing is not about how many 90mph bowlers or 300 wickets bowlers pak has produced it is about how quickly they mature. asif, mohammed amir etc matured very quickly into thinking fast bowlers. they dont get helpless, they have a plan for every situation. we all know the plight of srinath who actually took advice from zaheer during 2003 wc about his bowling, not the other way round. he always seemed helpless. he was never quite a dependable leader of his skill like kumble or tendulkar the only two fast bowlers who matured for india are kapil dev and zaheer khan. at the peak of their careers they were masters of their arts. for pakistan - fazal mahmood, ik, wy, was, aktar, amir, asif - so pak fast bowling was always more talented. look at shami, ishanth, yadav - these guys have poor fast bowler's attitude. on top of that they never mature into leaders of their skill like kohli, dravid, sachin, vvs, gavaskar did. the same can be said about pak batting now. their batsman dont quite mature the way indian batsman do. look at umar akmal, shehzad... they wont make it to India B team

Perfectly put. :two_thumbs_up:

[Autonomous]

the thing is not about how many 90mph bowlers or 300 wickets bowlers pak has produced it is about how quickly they mature. asif, mohammed amir etc matured very quickly into thinking fast bowlers. they dont get helpless, they have a plan for every situation. we all know the plight of srinath who actually took advice from zaheer during 2003 wc about his bowling, not the other way round. he always seemed helpless. he was never quite a dependable leader of his skill like kumble or tendulkar the only two fast bowlers who matured for india are kapil dev and zaheer khan. at the peak of their careers they were masters of their arts. for pakistan - fazal mahmood, ik, wy, was, aktar, amir, asif - so pak fast bowling was always more talented. look at shami, ishanth, yadav - these guys have poor fast bowler's attitude. on top of that they never mature into leaders of their skill like kohli, dravid, sachin, vvs, gavaskar did. the same can be said about pak batting now. their batsman dont quite mature the way indian batsman do. look at umar akmal, shehzad... they wont make it to India B team

Thank God a sane post after the trolls

[Precambrian]

If leadership is about goading a still under age bowler into spot fixing, well I am glad India doesn't have such bowling leaders.

[jonas10]

It's becoming like one of those ghetto threads where they were comparing live the speeds of Ind and Pak bowlers in a match and deciding that Pak pacers did better, regardless of the fact that Pak actually lost that match (from memory):haha: The whole point I am trying to establish, with cold and hard statistics, for the UMPTEENTH time, is that producing so called 150 km phaast boilers HAS NOT resulted in Pakistan enjoying dominance in bowling charts for sustained periods of time. At best it has been a series or two, at worst, a mere few overs (like Wahab Riaz spell in Sydney - ultimately making no difference to the contest, and was carted around in his last spell). All names, and no performances to show off in the last 12 years. That is a huge sample period boss.

This is because Pak is not a very good team as ive stated for the umpteenth time. They have no wicketkeeper, no leadership, no openers, no middle order and no fielder to take catches that the bowlers setup. Youre obsessed with averages etc. What you dont get is that a bowler that takes a 5 wicket haul is worth his weight in gold as opposed to a defensive seamer that wants to contain. Be honest with yourself if we sat down Ponting, Lara, Flintoff, Crowe who would you rather have as your seamers which ones theyd take: Shammi, Yadav, Kumar, M Sharma or Irfan, Junaid, Riaz, S Khan You know very well which group theyd pick for their squads. :giggle:

[Precambrian]

it is about how quickly they mature. asif, mohammed amir etc matured very quickly into thinking fast bowlers. they dont get helpless, they have a plan for every situation.

Sorry but I disagree completely. They have hardly been tested on a consistent basis in demanding conditions to extrapolate so wildly. Asif and Amir did extremely well against Aus and Eng in Eng. Amir was almost god like (and I hope for cricketing future he does come good in his second outing, I have actually real affection for him). But the conditions completely suited their type of bowling as well. Plus the whole spot fixing saga kind of obliterates any argument in favor of these bowlers' "maturity", and "thinking".

[Precambrian]

This is because Pak is not a very good team as ive stated for the umpteenth time. They have no wicketkeeper' date=' no leadership, no openers, no middle order and no fielder to take catches that the bowlers setup.[/quote'] Sorry I disagree. As much as we all want to criticize Pakistan, their test batting hasn't been totally pathetic. Yes, they have never got solid openers, but a middle order comprising of Azhar Ali, Misbah, Younis Khan is never really 'pathetic'. No leadership? That's pathetically cruel on Misbah. If anything many times it is due to his calm leadership that Pakistan did not completely implode from within. I do agree their fielding has been ordinary, but the same could be said of India pre-2010 as well. I am not obsessed with statistics. But statistics do explain a lot, at least more than what names do. Now to answer your silly question, and assuming each bowler would bowl at his peak, I'd go for the following: 1. On Indian pitches, Shami, Jadeja, Ashwin and another spinner plus Yadav 2. On Aussie pitches, it doesn't matter. You are going to get tonked regardless :cantstop: Look up the averages of Pakistani pace bowlers in Australia over the last 12 years (since the Ws retired) - its above 43! India is obviously not great either, over 46. So little to choose here. Haha.

[Shivaji bhonsle]

Main side. All 3 can hit 150kph if you didn't notice.

when did all of them hit 150s? I don't think so.

[TNAmarkFrmIndia]

They haven't produced a great bowler in a long time but they most certainly continue to produce a long line of fast bowling prospects, something India cannot boast of.

[Precambrian]

I am totally amazed by the counter arguments here, I say that "Wahab, Irfan, Junaid, etc" are JAPOPs who are hyped up in name than actual performances. I get replies like "Don't go by just stats, just check the names and speeds" yaar :hysterical: I mean the counter arguments are actually validating my original claim. People are being swayed by perceptions more than actual raw performances here. And when they cannot obviously counter argue with the performances, the excuses start coming in - Pakistan's batting is bad, fielding is bad, keeper is bad, captain is bad, CEO is bad, tea maker is bad, too many injuries, too many "issues" (that is my favorite), ICC is bad, BCCI is bad, its all a kaanspiracy, UAE is bad, pitches are bad, :hysterical:

[Precambrian]

They haven't produced a great bowler in a long time but they most certainly continue to produce a long line of fast bowling prospects' date=' something India cannot boast of.[/quote'] Yeah, only prospects, not performers. Thanks for not reading my first post.

[jonas10]

Sorry I disagree. As much as we all want to criticize Pakistan, their test batting hasn't been totally pathetic. Yes, they have never got solid openers, but a middle order comprising of Azhar Ali, Misbah, Younis Khan is never really 'pathetic'. No leadership? That's pathetically cruel on Misbah. If anything many times it is due to his calm leadership that Pakistan did not completely implode from within. I do agree their fielding has been ordinary, but the same could be said of India pre-2010 as well. I am not obsessed with statistics. But statistics do explain a lot, at least more than what names do. Now to answer your silly question, and assuming each bowler would bowl at his peak, I'd go for the following: 1. On Indian pitches, Shami, Jadeja, Ashwin and another spinner plus Yadav 2. On Aussie pitches, it doesn't matter. You are going to get tonked regardless :cantstop: Look up the averages of Pakistani pace bowlers in Australia over the last 12 years (since the Ws retired) - its above 43! India is obviously not great either, over 46. So little to choose here. Haha.

You didndt answer my question. You made up your own question and answered that. You are building your team and your name is Ponting Lara Crowe. You have to select 4 seamers for your team and play anywhere do you select the Indian ones or Pakistani ones. :giggle: As if this is even a contest.

[Precambrian]

You didndt answer my question. You made up your own question and answered that. You are building your team and your name is Ponting Lara Crowe. You have to select 4 seamers for your team and play anywhere do you select the Indian ones or Pakistani ones. :giggle: As if this is even a contest.

I answered already. Comprehension issues? Ok let me repeat In India - I'd choose Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja, one more spinner and Yadav. In Australia - Doesn't matter. Both teams will get roasted. But still for the record, I would still go with Indian team because of their experience of the conditions and also their performance in the recent world cup. Counter please.

[Marut]

Pakistan fast bowlers generally have more natural talent compared to Indian bowlers, just like Indian batsmen are better than their Pakistan counterparts. But consistency is not their forte - they just blow hot and cold. Wahab Riaz spell is just hype. He bowled some unplayable deliveries to Watson, who is by no means a great batsman in a pressure situation nor he is a very good player of short pitch bowling. But Wahab had little to show for his bowling anyway, 2-56 is hardly a match winning bowling spell defending 213. Wahab got all the hype because he did it against Australia who have a habit of hyping up every one who performs against them. A similar spell by Wahab or another bowler against another team would have gone completely unnoticed. In fact, Starc, Boult and Shami bowled much better than Wahab during the WC.

[jonas10]

I answered already. Comprehension issues? Ok let me repeat In India - I'd choose Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja, one more spinner and Yadav. In Australia - Doesn't matter. Both teams will get roasted. But still for the record, I would still go with Indian team because of their experience of the conditions and also their performance in the recent world cup. Counter please.

I didn't ask you who you'd pick. I get why you don't want to answer the question. I asked you who lara ponting etc would pick for their teams. If you can't answer that just say so. No one is talking about spinner or I'd the match is in India etc. You have to pick 4 steamers for your 15 man squad you think any neutral great like crowe picks Indian seamers over Pak?

[Autonomous]

At one point OP talks like we are talking about Test Cricket only but then mentions despote their bowlers Pak is a 7 ranked team. But for his info Pak is ranked 7 in ODIs and not Tests,Not long ago Pak was number 3 in tests and still in top 5. OP is just a troll and attention seeker

[Temujin Khaghan]

basically it is all about believing that they are destined to bowl fast.. you can see that kind of body language even in their trundler sohail khan. he bowls as if he is waqar younis. aaquib javed once said that srinath was a lot more talented and faster but with a very poor body language. pak bowlers dont abuse people as much as aus bowlers do. but they have a strut in their walk. umesh yadav celebrates a wicket as if he is playing a friendly match shami hardly celebrates ishanth was alright but doesnt back it up with jaffas they have to change their body language because they have to put the batsman, outside his comfort zone. only then the batsman will make the mistake in those micro seconds of haste or delay of commiting to the shot. indian bowlers just mind their business which lets the opposition bat with peace. iam not saying shami, yadav are not talented, but body language has to change... they have to make the opposition believe that they are the kohlis, sehwags and yuvraj singhs of fast bowling. --- sreesanth overdid the aggressive body language thing. but its alright. we might have tolerated him if he gave us the results. he had a very bad attitude towards training. this guy could have done wonders for us. he is a bigger waste than rp and munaf. he did not work hard enuf. its as simple as that. if anyone says his downfall started because of his over aggression, they are fooling themselves. plain laziness. rp, irfan, munaf, nehra all lazy buggers. ishanth is a hardworker, but no maturity. the other bowlers who played almost as many games as he did are broad and morkel. observe the difference in the body language.

[Vicky95]

For a country with a reputation for endlessly producing fast bowlers, Pakistan haven't produced matchwinning ones in a long time since the two Ws. Akhtar, Asif and Amir have all underachieved relative to their potential. Amir still has time on his side, but I don't think he'll be successful on Asian pitches. Others like Junaid, Gul, Irfan are just hyped up by their fans.

[Vicky95]

Main side. All 3 can hit 150kph if you didn't notice.

No, you're wrong. Only Pak pacer capable of hitting 150k is Wahab.

[Temujin Khaghan]

pak team of 90s is a prime culprit for underachievement. they should have won a lot more games than they did. matchfixing and team politics led to wasting their golden period.