Wasim Akram - genuine fast or fast -medium?

[rkt.india]

he looks in the high 140's to me. I know about his height but compare that to say a Mcgrath and notice the difference. It doesn't look like 140 to me. I also agree that very few bowlers were consistently 95 mph plus. Even Lee and Akhtar weren't always consistently bowling that pace. There were definately overs where they were in the mid to high 140's rather than at 150 plus. But i also think that there is a tendency to underrate some of the past greats, just like there is a tendency to overrate them. IMO Akhtar, Lee and Thompson were probably the 3 quickest of the past four decades. But the likes of Holding, Imran, etc were in the next league, round about 90 mph or even slightly higher. Tier 1, IMHO in terms of speed: Akhtar, Lee, Thompson Tier 2, = Donald, Waqar, Holding, Imran, Bond etc

Agree about whole analysis. Even Dennis Lillie was quite quick before his back injury in his early years and Shaun Tait could bowl as quick as any. Ian Bishop was damn quick too in the 1990. One of the quickest spell I have seen he bowled in that year against England. It was sheer pace, far quicker than this spell of Holding you posted.

[rkt.india]

could you post that video

KjgGBuRzI_8

[Harsh Thakor]

Good point,Thomson and Holding were quicker than any bowler after them apart from Shoaib Akhtar.Very relevant analysis.What about Sylvetser Clarke and Patrick Paterson?

[Harsh Thakor]

The speeds are considerably exaggerated here. The fast bowling competition in 1979 brought out the following facts: Eight balls were bowled by each bowler in that competition. The speeds were Thomson fastest 147.9kph average 142 Holding fastest 141.3kph average 135.3 Imran fastest 139.7 average 138.3 Croft fastest 139.2 average 134.7 Roberts fastest 138.6 average 135.3 This was a competition where the bowler can go at full throttle without worrying that he would be smashed by the batsman. Yet the average speeds don't indicate anything like 90mph, much less 95mph. Imagine how tougher it would be to these maintain average speeds in a test match where you have to bowl much longer spells.

Thomson and Holding were quicker than any bowler after them apart from Shoaib Akhtar.Very relevant analysis.What about Sylvetser Clarke and Patrick Paterson?

[Harsh Thakor]

he looks in the high 140's to me. I know about his height but compare that to say a Mcgrath and notice the difference. It doesn't look like 140 to me. I also agree that very few bowlers were consistently 95 mph plus. Even Lee and Akhtar weren't always consistently bowling that pace. There were definitely overs where they were in the mid to high 140's rather than at 150 plus. But i also think that there is a tendency to underrate some of the past greats, just like there is a tendency to overrate them. IMO Akhtar, Lee and Thompson were probably the 3 quickest of the past four decades. But the likes of Holding, Imran, etc were in the next league, round about 90 mph or even slightly higher. Tier 1, IMHO in terms of speed: Akhtar, Lee, Thompson Tier 2, = Donald, Waqar, Holding, Imran, Bond etc

Good point,Thomson and Holding were quicker than any bowler after them apart from Shoaib Akhtar.Very relevant analysis.What about Sylvetser Clarke and Patrick Paterson?Why is not Wasim at tier 2?At his quickest he could reach even 150k.p.h.

[rkt.india]

Good point' date='Thomson and Holding were quicker than any bowler after them apart from Shoaib Akhtar.Very relevant analysis.What about Sylvetser Clarke and Patrick Paterson?Why is not Wasim at tier 2?At his quickest he could reach even 150k.p.h.[/quote'] not really

[thongale]

Wasim was beating people for pace when he first came in. And mind you these were players who grew up playing Thommo, Lillee and WI pacemen. Unlike many bowlers of mid 80s, Wasim used the fuller length with extreme pace. At his best easily he was 147 - 152k range.

[maniac]

Wasim Akram was express when he started.....don't think he truly lost all the pace as I have seen him up his pace when it matters,especially you have to bowl a few clicks faster than your usual pace when the ball is reverse swinging and he could up the ante(ball tampering or not)

[Anik Krishna]

GjkBNxKZOE8 But this analysis says Jeff Thomson once bowled a delivery of 160.4 km/h and that's too checked by machine for the first time.

[The Outsider]

LOL! Even today after so much of technological advancement, there is a distinct difference between speed guns and people want to take measurements from the 70s as gospel! Crazy! Akram wasn't express when he started out, nor was he express when he finished. He was genuinely quick (140+) for a good part of his career with the ability today even hit 150 in certain spells. With respect to speed, he was like Steyn.

[hhhhdmt]

Good point' date='Thomson and Holding were quicker than any bowler after them apart from Shoaib Akhtar.Very relevant analysis.What about Sylvetser Clarke and Patrick Paterson?Why is not Wasim at tier 2?At his quickest he could reach even 150k.p.h.[/quote'] Peterson was quick, completely forgot about him, good call. I have not seen too much of Sylvester Clarke. Wasim probably should be there in tier 2 as well, as should Steyn. Although these two can bowl in the 130's and still be as effective. Good calls on those ones.

[rkt.india]

Before 1990, Wasim had a bowling action which was exactly the same as that of Mitchell Johnson - side on and slingy, with that action you can generate high pace. But from 1992 World Cup onwards, Wasim changed his action to chest on and whippy/jerky action. So I doubt whether he went past 140 mark too often after changing his action. It is almost impossible to bowl express pace with a chest on action. Flintoff was the only bowler who could bowl express pace with a chest on action, but that was because he was physically very strong.

I know I have seen Wasim's action and it was not like Johnson but more like Thilan Thusara of Srilanka and even Mitchell Johnson cant bowl at 95 mph consistently with that action. His average is mostly about 87-88 mph. Wasim might have bowled around 88-90 mph too in his quickest spell but not on average. Even Bond who I consider quicker than Wasim and could beat batsmen for pace never really bowled 95 mph consistently. Wasim's strength was swing more than just sheer pace. If you can get swing around 140-145, you will be tougher to face than a bowler bowling 150 plus without swing.

[Anik Krishna]

LOL! Even today after so much of technological advancement, there is a distinct difference between speed guns and people want to take measurements from the 70s as gospel! Crazy! Akram wasn't express when he started out, nor was he express when he finished. He was genuinely quick (140+) for a good part of his career with the ability today even hit 150 in certain spells. With respect to speed, he was like Steyn.

Still better than a naked eye's guess. And I didnt said Wasim was express pace. My point was Jeff Thomson was express pace. It was reply to some other posters who were quoting that Jeff, Roberts etc old days express pacers werant that quick according to a 1979 speed test. However..yes Wasim Akram was fast but not express pace.

[rkt.india]

Still better than a naked eye's guess. And I didnt said Wasim was express pace. My point was Jeff Thomson was express pace. It was reply to some other posters who were quoting that Jeff, Roberts etc old days express pacers werant that quick according to a 1979 speed test. However..yes Wasim Akram was fast but not express pace.

Jeff Thomson was quick. No doubt about it. He could bowl in upwards of 150Ks.

[Raghav_12]

A very large part of this discussion is purely based on speculations. The only credible information that study of 1979 offers, in context of the this discussion, is relative ranking of pace for the bowlers who participated in that comnpetition. All you can derive from that is Thomson was fastest followed by Holding. Rest of the packed was bunded together after that. Thomson and Hoilding were clear leaders. Now there pace was 140 or 170 by today's yardstick is just speculation.

[The Outsider]

Still better than a naked eye's guess. And I didnt said Wasim was express pace. My point was Jeff Thomson was express pace. It was reply to some other posters who were quoting that Jeff, Roberts etc old days express pacers werant that quick according to a 1979 speed test. However..yes Wasim Akram was fast but not express pace.

I am not denying your points at all, in fact supporting them. To bring data from one off speed tests with no calibration to current methods doesn't make sense. Anyone who thinks Thomson or Holding were 140k bowlers, simply isn't worth wasting time over on the topic.

[riya]

I don't know about his speed.But i couldn't see those two deliveries to Lamb and Lewis in Wc 92 final.Looked like sheer pace and swing combined!!!

[rkt.india]

I am not denying your points at all, in fact supporting them. To bring data from one off speed tests with no calibration to current methods doesn't make sense. Anyone who thinks Thomson or Holding were 140k bowlers, simply isn't worth wasting time over on the topic.

Thomson and Holding were certainly fastest of their time bowling in excess of 150 or more.

[swatpulla]

Akram's pace is exaggerated. I remember Navjot Singh Sidhu commentating when Umesh was blowing away England's top order with some very early reverse swing. Navjot mentioned Wasim and said that it was reverse like this which made him lethal. He also mentioned that while Wasim never had Umesh's pace, what made him so lethal was his art.

[maniac]

Thomson and Holding were certainly fastest of their time bowling in excess of 150 or more.

That is just a theory...Also the pitches in WI were much faster during their time....they were no way superior athletes than Say a Morkel or a MJ who are just consistently fast. I think we romanticize the past too much......I am sure with the protective gear and pitches of that era it will be easier to face a Holding than a Morkel. Same way we overrate Walsh and Ambrose for their pace...all they had were great skills and a killer bounce that made them dangerous...and trust me I have atleast seen a lot of them from atleast the 90's onwards...they were great bowlers but not express...infact Bishop was the fastest and nastiest comparatively...too bad he was injury prone and did not have their skills and consistency