Shift in perception towards Indian pace bowlers?

[Silva]

An intelligent 130-135 kmph bowler with a good outswing/inswing plus reverse swing capability is ANYDAY 1000000000000000000 times better than all the brainless speedguns in the world who can bowl those amazing balls along with freebies.

You need to bowl 135kph+ consistently to get effective reverse swing.

[rkt.india]

What is really irritating is even if a fast bowler sucks in test cricket they still tend to be very good in ODI cricket .Someone like Tait is an example because sheer pace isn't easy go after for scoring rate But both Yadav and Aaron are struggling or established in ODI cricket as well.

Those daya were different. T20s have made it difficult for bowlers. Batsmen are more audacious against pace. In fact, spinners are proving to be better. Last 4-5 years have changed things a lot. Other than Starc in recent times and to some extent Morkel, most pacers have struggled Iois

[sensible-indian]

You need to bowl 135kph+ consistently to get effective reverse swing.

Ok make it 135. But I feel 130-135 accurate pacers with quality swing can still average 30-32.

[Vijy]

Ok make it 135. But I feel 130-135 accurate pacers with quality swing can still average 30-32.

Asif hovered around the 130-135 mark for the most part; although he could bowl 135-140 on faster pitches.

[Rightarmfast]

Its always a plus to have genuine pace. Medium pace is not always enough.

[rkt.india]

Asif hovered around the 130-135 mark for the most part; although he could bowl 135-140 on faster pitches.

Aasif mostly played on bowling friendly pitches.

[sensible-indian]

Yadav leaks 32 runs in 5 overs. Idiot.

[Vijy]

Yadav leaks 32 runs in 5 overs. Idiot.

Typical of him. And Aaron.

[express bowling]

Your optimism is to be commended :hatsoff: I on the other hand am worried about how likes of Aaron, Yadav and co will develop and how their workloads, etc will be managed.

I was not really talking about specific bowlers like Umesh and Aaron and how they would shape up. Their career could go either way....difficult to predict as of now. If we analyze the top wicket taking pacers at test level in the last 25 years or so ...most of them have had the ability to bowl accurately and bowl lots of deliveries at 135k+. Hitting the right areas ball after ball at decent pace. Another quality that is common among most of them is that they had the ability to hit the deck hard and extract life out of the pitch as and when required. Bowl good bouncers too when needed. Ambrose, Walsh, McGrath, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Steyn, Harris etc. would all qualify in this category. Dibbly-dobbly medium pacers, even if accurate OR... express pacers who have sprayed the ball around ...have not had much success at test level in the last 25 years. In India, most pacers we used to produce were either dibbly-dobbly medium pacers or, even if they had decent pace, they used to float the ball in search of swing even if conditions were not conducive for swing bowling. Accurate deck hitting bowling, barring Srinath in his last 6 years, Zaheer in his middle 4 years and Munaf in his first year, was rarely practiced by Indians ( Zaheer used to hit the deck as and when required and not always ) In the last 15 months or so, Indians have been trying to play multiple pacers who can bowl above 135 K +. These pacers are being encouraged to hit the deck hard when required ....practice bowling good bouncers. There is a lot of talk and encouragement about bowling in the right areas without sacrificing pace. Even Dhoni, during his last year talked about hitting the deck etc. in test matches. This is the international pace bowling culture where pacers are encouraged to bowl the ball with effort and not just place it there. ( We are not talking about just release speeds here. ) It has started to develop in India. Ishant has started to bowl accurately at 135 k + and with effort. If we can get even another guy who can do this...we will have a decent pace atttack at test level. There is no need to bowl mindlessly at 145 k +. Accuracy at 135 k + and hitting the deck hard when required is what I am looking for.

[Vijy]

I was not really talking about specific bowlers like Umesh and Aaron and how they would shape up. Their career could go either way....difficult to predict as of now. If we analyze the top wicket taking pacers at test level in the last 25 years or so ...most of them have had the ability to bowl accurately and bowl lots of deliveries at 135k+. Hitting the right areas ball after ball at decent pace. Another quality that is common among most of them is that they had the ability to hit the deck hard and extract life out of the pitch as and when required. Bowl good bouncers too when needed. Ambrose, Walsh, McGrath, Wasim, Waqar, Donald, Steyn, Harris etc. would all qualify in this category. Dibbly-dobbly medium pacers, even if accurate OR... express pacers who have sprayed the ball around ...have not had much success at test level in the last 25 years. In India, most pacers we used to produce were either dibbly-dobbly medium pacers or, even if they had decent pace, they used to float the ball in search of swing even if conditions were not conducive for swing bowling. Accurate deck hitting bowling, barring Srinath in his last 6 years, Zaheer in his middle 4 years and Munaf in his first year, was rarely practiced by Indians ( Zaheer used to hit the deck as and when required and not always ) In the last 15 months or so, Indians have been trying to play multiple pacers who can bowl above 135 K +. These pacers are being encouraged to hit the deck hard when required ....practice bowling good bouncers. There is a lot of talk and encouragement about bowling in the right areas without sacrificing pace. Even Dhoni, during his last year talked about hitting the deck etc. in test matches. This is the international pace bowling culture where pacers are encouraged to bowl the ball with effort and not just place it there. ( We are not talking about just release speeds here. ) It has started to develop in India. Ishant has started to bowl accurately at 135 k + and with effort. If we can get even another guy who can do this...we will have a decent pace atttack at test level. There is no need to bowl mindlessly at 145 k +. Accuracy at 135 k + and hitting the deck hard when required is what I am looking for.

Seems to me that currently we either have people with accuracy (BK, earlier PK, etc) or those who spray it around at a good pace (Yadav, Aaron).

[express bowling]

Seems to me that currently we either have people with accuracy (BK' date=' earlier PK, etc) or those who spray it around at a good pace (Yadav, Aaron).[/quote'] We now have 1 pacer who is bowling accurately at 135 K + and hitting the deck hard. Getting wickets as a result. Just waiting for another to come along. :two_thumbs_up: ( although we all know that with Ishant there is always the risk of regressing ) Who are our other options who can be groomed ? Brainder Sran looked interesting. Tall left armer who can hit the deck. There is also the strange case of Pawan Suyal who does not even make it to his state side inspite of averaging in the mid-twenties in first class cricket. Navdeep Saini is another accurate, tall bowler who looks lively and gets bounce. at decent pace. Bumrah looked good before his injury. Hit good areas at pace in first class cricket. There is a tall guy called Ravi Kiran who bowls accutately at decent pace.

[Rightarmfast]

Actually there used to be another Jharkhand fast bowler, Aaron's team mate who used to bowl around 145- 150. Wonder where he got lost.

[rkt.india]

I am looking forward to Brainder Sran and Navdeep Saini. Both tall bowlers. Hope Sran gets to play more. He is serious talent. Left arm pacer bowling at 140k.

[Vijy]

We now have 1 pacer who is bowling accurately at 135 K + and hitting the deck hard. Getting wickets as a result. Just waiting for another to come along. :two_thumbs_up: ( although we all know that with Ishant there is always the risk of regressing ) Who are our other options who can be groomed ? Brainder Sran looked interesting. Tall left armer who can hit the deck. There is also the strange case of Pawan Suyal who does not even make it to his state side inspite of averaging in the mid-twenties in first class cricket. Navdeep Saini is another accurate, tall bowler who looks lively and gets bounce. at decent pace. Bumrah looked good before his injury. Hit good areas at pace in first class cricket. There is a tall guy called Ravi Kiran who bowls accutately at decent pace.

Suyal's case is as strange as that of Harmeet Singh (spin).

[Vijy]

I am looking forward to Brainder Sran and Navdeep Saini. Both tall bowlers. Hope Sran gets to play more. He is serious talent. Left arm pacer bowling at 140k.

That would be nice. Our own Akram/Reid then?

[MCcricket]

Add Aniket Choudhury very tall , experienced, decent stats, left arm f/m hits the deck n our dumb selectors don't know him lol, also from Rajasthan so!!!!

[MCcricket]

Actually there used to be another Jharkhand fast bowler' date=' Aaron's team mate who used to bowl around 145- 150. Wonder where he got lost.[/quote'] Rahul Shukla?

[Vijy]

Rahul Shukla?

Yes I reckon this should be the guy the poster was referring to.

[MCcricket]

Why is it that we have very decent U19 pacers who bowls 135 n above n then don't progress n this is due to BCCI n Ranji setup , no nurturing n planning also sometimes promising bowlers like Tyagi ,VRV R ground to dust

[Vijy]

Why is it that we have very decent U19 pacers who bowls 135 n above n then don't progress n this is due to BCCI n Ranji setup ' date=' no nurturing n planning also sometimes promising bowlers like Tyagi ,VRV R ground to dust[/quote'] Has happened quite a few times. Most of our senior pacers also lost fair amount of pace - Irfan, RP, Munaf, etc.