Difference Between Kaptaan Kool and Kohli

[Sarkar]

Which test was this ?

2011 INDIA TOUR OF WI

[moniker]

It was an impossible chase. Did you watch the match? WI bowlers started bowling on the leg side (those would have been wides in ODIs but in test matches the batsmen can do little against that kind of negative bowling) once they realized India were going for the target. India required around 90 off 15 when the chase was called off but India has scored only 28 off the last 13 overs due to WI negative tactics.

Why did Sammy agree to walk off once the mandatory overs were bowled? If it was an impossible chase he'd have gladly carried on. After all WI were behind and had nothing to lose and everything to gain if they managed to win and draw the series.

[CG]

It was an impossible chase. Did you watch the match? WI bowlers started bowling on the leg side (those would have been wides in ODIs but in test matches the batsmen can do little against that kind of negative bowling) once they realized India were going for the target. India required around 90 off 15 when the chase was called off but India has scored only 28 off the last 13 overs due to WI negative tactics.

You have to try atleast.Few quick runs could have chnaged the tempo.Pak did the same againt lanka.There were enough wikcets in hand.There is no excuse for what dhoni did no matter how you try to spin it,

[jf1gp_1]

To early to compare, if i remember correctly Dhoni won the very first overseas tour that he captained which was NZ. Kohli is certainly different compared to Dhoni however lets see if he continues to make aggressive moves if faced with 3-4 losses but one thing i like about Kohl is he makes adjustments pretty quickly. I believe we have a good test squad, it just needs time to mature which will happen in few yrs. However if people think today Kohli were to lead india to a 4 test series in england or SA and the result would be any different than it was last year when Dhoni was captain they are sadly mistaken

[diga]

^ Result may not be different.. but with Kohli, he wont play 4 tests with the same approach or the same team.

[jf1gp_1]

^ Result may not be different.. but with Kohli, he wont play 4 tests with the same approach or the same team.

So you are saying with Kohli its neither about process nor about result ?

[zep1706]

It was an impossible chase. Did you watch the match? WI bowlers started bowling on the leg side (those would have been wides in ODIs but in test matches the batsmen can do little against that kind of negative bowling) once they realized India were going for the target. India required around 90 off 15 when the chase was called off but India has scored only 28 off the last 13 overs due to WI negative tactics.

No it was not an impossible chase. I watched it live. You just don't walk away from 85 runs no matter what the opposition was doing. You play till the end and if you can't chase it down then fair enough. You don't shake hands 15 overs before because the opposition was bowling negative. In fact the WI captain later said that he was surprised that India called off the chase. He was not alone. BTW that is precisely the kind of difference I am talking about. Kohli would never do that.

[zep1706]

Which test was this ?

Last test vs WI in 2011. It was before the disastrous England tour. India were the #1 test team then and that was unworthy of a #1 side. That basically started the spectacular fall from grace. Karma?

[adi B]

Yeah that 3rd test against Windies was just a shameless and cowardly move by Dhoni and Fletcher. I was watching that night live with hopes of a test win,India were going pretty well and were 95/3 ,chasing 180 ,laxman and raina were there I think and suddenly Dhoni and Fletcher ddecide enough is enough.I mean it's okay if you fall short but at least go for it I was like wtf!! ,were they thinking Windies would bowl out the whole team inside 10-15 overs. That was the sign of a pathetic mindset shown by a #1 team and even tony cozier went nuts later that day

[Marut]

Why did Sammy agree to walk off once the mandatory overs were bowled? If it was an impossible chase he'd have gladly carried on. After all WI were behind and had nothing to lose and everything to gain if they managed to win and draw the series.

It was not a game for WI to win once India decided to shut shop. India were set 180 to chase in 47 overs. Not exactly an easy chase in a test match. India have successfully chased 180 outside Asia only three times in history before this, so the chase was by no means a cake walk and there was every chance of India losing the game. India began their chase well by getting to 1/64 off 19, requiring 116 off 28 with nine wickets in hand. Around this point, WI started bowling negatively, runs dried up and two wickets were lost quickly as the frustrated Indian batsmen tried to up the scoring rate - the next thirteen overs produced only 28 runs, so the required target climbed to 85 off 15. India's strategy of giving momentum to the innings by promoting Raina failed when Raina was dismissed cheaply. Those watching the match realized India's chase had lost its wheels at this point. The two men at the crease were Dravid and Laxman, not exactly the kind of batsmen who can get you run a ball in a test match. If one of these got out there was every chance for India to fold quickly and India did not want to take that chance, having taking a 1-0 lead.

[sage]

Agreed with zep. Such play was not worthy of a #1 side

[Marut]

You have to try atleast.Few quick runs could have chnaged the tempo.Pak did the same againt lanka.There were enough wikcets in hand.There is no excuse for what dhoni did no matter how you try to spin it' date='[/quote'] India tried actually. Then they lost wickets and the scoring rate came to a near halt. It wasn't a strong batting lineup for that test - we were without Sachin, Sehwag, Gambhir etc in this match. Kohli was just an inexperienced youngster back then. One more wicket would have brought out the long Indian tail. There was no harm in trying but it was only 50-50 at this point, and India had no reason going for that risk after taking a series lead. Had India lost, Dhoni would have received even bigger criticism for failing to utilize a rare opportunity to win an overseas tour.

[CG]

India tried actually. Then they lost wickets and the scoring rate came to a near halt. It wasn't a strong batting lineup for that test - we were without Sachin' date=' Sehwag, Gambhir etc in this match. Kohli was just an inexperienced youngster back then. One more wicket would have brought out the long Indian tail. There was no harm in trying but it was only 50-50 at this point, and India had no reason going for that risk after taking a series lead. Had India lost, Dhoni would have received even bigger criticism for failing to utilize a rare opportunity to win an overseas tour.[/quote'] Thats the diff between Kohli and dhoni he goes for wins.With our history Overseas test wins even in wi are rare.India shut shop pretty early.They had enough wickets.Its just the mindset .

[BeautifulGame]

You have to try atleast.Few quick runs could have chnaged the tempo.Pak did the same againt lanka.There were enough wikcets in hand.There is no excuse for what dhoni did no matter how you try to spin it' date='[/quote'] That was a daft comparison .Pakistan were down 1-0 and needed to win the test to draw level India were 1-0 up and just needed to draw to win the series

[sir ji]

Do we have evidence that other captains cared about cricket 24 X 7? IMHO, Dhoni's workload was phenomenal. He was the captain, wicket keeper and a batsman in three formats of the game, and had practically no rest. Wicket keeping itself is a strenuous job and it does not go well with captaincy which comes with its own pressures and workload. On the top of that, Dhoni was a top batsman too. Number of international matches in which a player was captain + wicket keeper. (in the order tests, ODIs, T20s) Dhoni 60 181 49 = 290 Rahim 21 30 23 = 74 Flower 16 46 = 62 Stewart 12 39 = 51 Taibu 10 29 = 39 Ramdin 13 = 13 Moin 13 34 = 47 Gilchrist 6 17 2 = 25 Sanga 0 45 22 = 67 AB 0 30 11 = 41 Baz 1 13 13 = 27 Latif 0 25 = 25 Dravid 0 5 = 5 Dhoni has captained and kept in four times as many matches compared to his nearest rival and even more compared to other illustrious names out there. Dhoni has taken on a kind of burden very few have dared to in cricket. Wicket keeping + captaincy is enormous workload, and these two are actually contradictory job profiles. Wicket keeper has to be fully focused on the wicket and the bowler to be successful. But captain has to be thinking about the whole game all the time. To be a wicket keeper and a captain together calls for unusual skills, being able to focus on part as well the whole at the same time. Which is why very few cricketers have been successful as wicket keeper captains in the history of the game. Dhoni is the only exception in history. I don't think Dhoni gets the credit he deserves.

Good post. Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[BeautifulGame]

Last test vs WI in 2011. It was before the disastrous England tour. India were the #1 test team then and that was unworthy of a #1 side. That basically started the spectacular fall from grace. Karma?

So SA are not worthy no.1 as well considering they gave up chasing in the Joberg test ? Karma ? :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

[Marut]

Thats the diff between Kohli and dhoni he goes for wins.With our history Overseas test wins even in wi are rare.India shut shop pretty early.They had enough wickets.Its just the mindset .

Really? We saw that during the first test in SL. Dhoni too was positive during his early days as a captain. But later on expectations climbed, and India didn't have a team capable of winning test matches overseas since 2011. Kohli's real worth will be known in 3-4 years time and during times the team goes through a lean patch. Dhoni had an outrageously bad team for overseas conditions during his last 3-4 years. Using buzzwords like aggression, victory etc don't win matches for the team. You need to have a team with the right combination first - India won't win outside Asia without getting a breed of deadly fast bowlers. If Ishant is our best bowler we aren't going to win or draw too many outside Asia under Kohli.

[BeautifulGame]

These are just excuses. Dravid resigned after a successful England tour. If he wanted' date=' he could easily have carried on for next 3-4 years till his retirement like Dhoni did. While Dhoni did it after 4 years of humiliation in test cricket that too only when he retired from test cricket. There in lies the difference. If it was such a workload, why didn't he quit the captaincy because not easy for Dhoni's ego to give up captaincy and play as a player.[/quote'] Dravid was lucky Most other countries would have sacked him the day we exited the world cup

[Shivaji bhonsle]

Hopefully the process rubbish has ended with kohli's captaincy.

[CG]

That was a daft comparison .Pakistan were down 1-0 and needed to win the test to draw level India were 1-0 up and just needed to draw to win the series

Thats what i am saying intent was missing.Its all that is needed if we had the intent we could have gone but dhoni is safety first.