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Time ticking for Hardik Pandya

maniac

By maniac
in Cricket Talk

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zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted

Agree, that adding another struggling batsman is not the solution - but you can't say Pandya is struggling - he got a roughie against NZ the last time he batted.  He didnt look that good against Pak or Bongles in the Asia cup - but looked a million $$ playing in India against SL.  Apparently he is batting well enough that you have suggested multiple times to open with him.  

 

But I do not agree that you can win with 5 primary bowlers - unless you can count on at least one or two to be a reliable batsman.  Shortening the batting lineup is not the way to go in T20.  We can agree to disagree and leave it at that - no point going back and forth.  

If Pandya is not struggling play him if it benefits India .... On some of the surfaces, India could have easily picked 2 from Yuvi, Raina (walking wkt on some surfaces) and Pandya, and used a regular bowler instead to bowl the opposition out (as pitches allowed it to do that) 

Talking about the current squad - Ashwin, Jadjeja, Bhajji, Negi, etc. can bat a bit too so again bowlers not being able to bat is not an issue .... And  I don't believe in rules such as if one or two of your bowlers can't bat, you don't play them. To illustrate, If you have McGrath, Warne, Ambrose, Murali and Wasim in the squad, you don't care if they can bat or not. You would play them as 5 bowlers. A good specialist always bring in more than a half player .... On helpful pitches, regular bowlers / specialists can offer even more as their strength is multiplied because of the conditions (whereas the batsmen who could bowl could just be competitive enough and their batting may not even offer much value)

:icflove:

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sandeep Grand Master

sandeep

Posted
Posted

To illustrate, If you have McGrath, Warne, Ambrose, Murali and Wasim in the squad, you don't care if they can bat or not. You would play them as 5 bowlers. 

Of course.  But problem is bhau, we don't.  :blink: So given that reality, this is best XI we could front up 

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zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted

Of course.  But problem is bhau, we don't.  :blink: So given that reality, this is best XI we could front up 

I was hoping that you would not write that^ as:

"To illustrate, If you have McGrath, Warne, Ambrose, Murali and Wasim in the squad, you don't care if they can bat or not. You would play them as 5 bowlers. A good specialist always bring in more than a half player .... On helpful pitches, regular bowlers / specialists can offer even more as their strength is multiplied because of the conditions (whereas the batsmen who could bowl could just be competitive enough and their batting may not even offer much value)"

Of course,  I know we don't have those players. As I said, on helpful pitches, regular bowlers strengths are multiplied  for e.g. Ashwin on day 1 of a test vs day 5 of the test .... In LOIs, bowlers have limited quota while batsmen have the freedom to bat as many overs they can :winky: 

 

 

 

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speedster Newbie

speedster

Posted
Posted

We are becoming big time Pandya apologists

Right now the biggest argument in his favor seems that he is better than Rishi dhawan and Stuart Binny....fair enough but do we have to play an allrounder just for the sake of it?

Yes he is a terrific athlete and a worldclass fielder but then again most of the Ipl generation youngsters are.

His batting nor bowling gives me assurance....I like my allrounder to give me assurance in one dept atleast.

lets take examples of allrounders in other teams

Pakistan-Afridi- obviously exception to the rule but again he is their strike spin bowler, don't think he will play as a batsman alone.....if injured will be replaced by a spinner.

Australia-Watson- if he can't bowl is good enough to play as a batsman alone.

Marsh and Faulkner- if they can't bowl will not be played as batsmen but will be replaced by a bowler.

Newzealand- Anderson-good enough to play as a pure batsman

Right now can't put my finger yet on what are his core skills.

I don't think WT20 is the right forum to groom a player....yeah give him some chances to shine in the weaker games but can't afford a free ride in crunch games.

I agree with you that an all rounder ought to be good enough to play as either a batsman or bowler alone,  in Pandya's case however he offers something we don't quite have which is raw hitting power, it can be argued that Harbhjan has played useful knocks in the past but these have been few and far between and he doesn't have Pandya's hitting prowess (Harbhajan's strikerate is 124 Vs Pandya's 180). Also would Harbhajan really add that much to the bowling? His recent performances have been decent nothing more, so has Pandya's performances with the ball (last match notwithstanding) .

With Raina's form or lack of it we can't afford to discard Pandya right now.

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vishalvirsingh Mentor

vishalvirsingh

Posted
Posted

I liked the glimpses of promise he has shown in his short career but I am not going be to a Pandya apologist like  a lot of indian fans are becoming these days just because they want to believe that they found the next kapil dev.

Well atleast while bowling parttimers like Yuvi or Raina the captain can hide them when the game is on cruise control or when he can get quick overs out of them when the opposition is a little under pressure.

Pandya has been our weak link with the ball in the last few games....yeah he has a knack of picking up the odd wicket per game but he is clearly the most hittable of all our bowlers raina and Yuvraj .

He has struggled on pitches that have offered something for seamers or spinners with the bat.....yeah as a fielder he definitely is one of the best out there.

i think given the conditions and the way pitches have behaved so far, it's time we went with Bhajji instead of Pandya....I don't think given the situations pandya bats in Bhajji won't do way worse Infact gives that much more assurance.

i am not saying dump him for good... Give him a long rope and keep him around in the scheme of things for a while ,while he works on his game but right now don't think he has done enough to walk into the starting line up of every single game.

I think he is probably the most dispensable member of the X1 right now and personally I feel more comfortable with bhajji in the line up with the bat or ball instead of Pandya atleast for this tournament. 

sorry boss.

I don't agee.

He is oour next Kapil dev-believe me.

As an all round package he is our mmost valuable player.

In fielding he is as good as jaddu.

In batting he is as good as Uv if not better.

In bowling he is matching other seamers.

He shud not be dropped. 

 

 

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zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted (edited)

See I support umesh and I say he is Supremmely talented n fast..when he fails. .I feel disappointed n angry but I still believe in him.

Please give time to pandya...he is a diamond.

I beleive umesh will bounce back big in odi n tests.

Not many have really has said that Pandya (or other talented players) should not be played .... But that the squad and playing 11 should be based on horses for courses and form

IF Pandya or any other player including regressing forces such as Raina, Yuvi, Bhajji, etc. meet those criteria, they should be played :winky:  

Tomorrow someone will say Negi is like Bevan

The selection of teams for world events should be different from  bi-lateral series. World events team should have in-form players in the squad and playing 11 selected based on horses for courses. In bilateral series experinentation, playing players for exposure, etc is acceptable 

 

Edited by rett
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zen Grand Master

zen

Posted
Posted

I stopped reading this thread when someone said Raina should be dropped. For me, he should be number 2 on the list of playing 11 right after Kohli. Yes even above Dhoni, Rohits or anyone. Raina is just going through bad patch and some stupid morons in this thread want him dropped. Seriously :facepalm:

Thanks for the info! 

Many were also under the impression that Raina's struggle with the bat was because of bowler friendly conditions. And that he would come good if presented with a flat track .... But good to know that it is just a bad patch. I hope he is able to practice enough in the WT20 to regain his touch which would be useful when Ind plays bi-lateral series 

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rkt.india Grand Master

rkt.india

Posted
Posted

I stopped reading this thread when someone said Raina should be dropped. For me, he should be number 2 on the list of playing 11 right after Kohli. Yes even above Dhoni, Rohits or anyone. Raina is just going through bad patch and some stupid morons in this thread want him dropped. Seriously :facepalm:

Raina has been struggling for a long time now.

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express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted

No....time is not ticking for Pandya....not by a long shot.

Why ?

  •  The Indian LOI team was looking for a batsman at the lower-middle order who can come in, hit big shots immediately and up the run-rate in the last few overs. That is Pandya's primary role in the team. He has done justice to this role and played 2 such crucial knocks so far.  Lower order sloggers are not expected to succeed in almost every innings but are needed to play impact knocks with reasonable frequency....which Pandya is doing.
  • He has played in many low scoring games, on difficult tracks , where all top batsmen barring Kohli, has failed. Most of his failures as a batsman has been on such pitches. 
  • On green tracks, he has given us an extra pacer. He is a regular wicket taker and has done very well as a bowler on helpful pitches.
  • He is a very good fielder.
  • Any new player with potential needs to be given time to develop. In recent years we are doing it and that is the right approach. Pandya has tremendous potential as an all-rounder. Too much chopping and changing does not help build a good team or good players. 
  • Horses for courses policy is always good...we might prefer a spin-allrounder on square turners in place of Pandya. That is perfectly ok.  This approach should be applied to every player and not just Pandya.
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express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted (edited)

I stopped reading this thread when someone said Raina should be dropped. For me, he should be number 2 on the list of playing 11 right after Kohli. Yes even above Dhoni, Rohits or anyone. Raina is just going through bad patch and some stupid morons in this thread want him dropped. Seriously :facepalm:

 

Raina has been struggling for a long time now.

 

Raina is averaging 31.9 in ODIs  in the last 33 months.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/33335.html?class=2;spanmin1=01+Jun+2013;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

 

I wonder if that can be called a bad patch  !!

This kind of average would have been ok if he had a very high SR ...which would be 115 + nowadays.  He does not play that fast.

Edited by express bowling
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