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Indian test cricket from depths of despair to Bright sunshine from Dhoni to Virat the journey , compare


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5 hours ago, philcric said:

 

Constant Dhoni bashing doesn't serve any purpose anymore, it will alienate people who like Dhoni and in a perverse way they may want Kohli (and India) to fail. I can already see signs of it in the match thread.

 

 

 

Why? Why should be so considerate of the feeling of some Dhoni fans? I can name you some good posters who were driven away from this forum by Dhoni fans because of the constant bashing of the previous generation legends we had when Dhoni was on top. Most of these so called fans are trolls anyways. Two of the foremost are accounts who pretend to be Dhoni fan just to troll people here (and which I strongly suspect is the same person's accounts). If they want India to fail just because Kohli is in charge, all the better for them to be exposed. 

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6 minutes ago, New guy said:

Amazing Dhoni fan logic. Constantly target legends who have given years to Indian cricket because they failed in their last days. Constantly cry and whinge when the same treatment is meted out to Dhoni when he lost form as a player and captain

i dont take the credits away when the legend/legunds won the game for us ..

but when the same guys were responsible for our legendary losses , suddenly dhoni will be reason for the loss for you guys ..

 

fresh batsmen who replaced the legends did better in england and in australia ..

common denominator here is the legends and we all know who is responsible for the blackmark on our cricket history

 

 

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1 minute ago, New guy said:

I would rather fail against a low life troll who is banned from all forum except this one

Yes every win under Kohli should be down played as he is not Dhoni the great and this is not an Indian forum

I am not down playing it. But, it is coming against a No 8 side in the world. Putting things in perspective, it is a win, but an expected one. Nothing remarkable about it.

 

Real test is in Eng, Aus, SA and NZ. Let's see how Kohli goes in these countries.

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1 minute ago, Viper said:

Burnol order kar amazon se... bas usse kya discussion.. time waste:phehe: He won't  understand..

I mean this topic in itself is rather funny. :phehe:

 

One win and we go on and on. Still 3 tests away from a whitewash and anything less than a whitewash will be embarrassing for the no 2 Test side in the world.

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13 hours ago, rkt.india said:

1 test win against a lowly WI. Dont start jumping up and down already. Remember how we dominated a far better WI test team in 2011 in all 3 tests, which we could have won 3-0 if not for the two tests affected by rain and still we lost badly against England on the following tour. Winning against WI isnt the right indication of our team's progress.

But that intent was not there, in second test with Rampaul out , India batted 98 overs in second innings and just scored over 200 runs.I don't fault just Dhoni for both Laxman and dravid were batting that day and they were so slow and made no effort to speed things up even with WI one bowler down.

 

Dhoni batting on and on in NZ in third test 2009 with over 600 runs, admitting he was looking for draw against Aussies in Mohali 2013 shows how reluctant Dhoni was to force a win.His safety first approach killed lot of options.

 

Kohli going for win in Adelaide and 5 bowlers theory shows he is more looking for wins at all cost than Dhoni who was safety first and then win second kind of guy.

 

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11 minutes ago, Viper said:

Did they win the ADELAIDE MATCH at the end of Day ?

 

What is this looking for wins or Draw crap:facepalm:

 

Everyone plays the bloody game to win at the end of day better team takes over

With world class keeper like Saha, we had a great chance to win anyway. Mindless slogger.

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Constant chest thumping based on a win against a lowly WI is bound to misfire at some stage. 

It's not always about winning or loosing but it's about the intent.....

It could still be 4-0 against Ozzie and SA.....but this time around there will be an intent to win.....

When 4 Indian bowlers are incapable to take 20 wickets outside sub-contient , you better go with 5 bowlers....this experiment might back-fire against quality teams but you r starting with an intent to win......

It makes a test match fan like me very happy and test matches very exciting...

I hate dhoni not for his 4-0 losses but the way we lost it.....

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

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Just now, gakgupta said:

It's not always about winning or loosing but it's about the intent.....

It could still be 4-0 against Ozzie and SA.....but this time around there will be an intent to win.....

When 4 Indian bowlers are incapable to take 20 wickets outside sub-contient , you better go with 5 bowlers....this experiment might back-fire against quality teams but you r starting with an intent to win......

It makes a test match fan like me very happy and test matches very exciting...

I hate dhoni not for his 4-0 losses but the way we lost it.....

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

I agree that 4-0 whitewash hurt all of us. I am not saying that Kohli is not as good as you are claiming him to be. Fact is, we don't know yet. We need to hold on to see how this series pans out. If we don't whitewash this pathetic WI team, then it will be disappointing hoping that weather will not have an impact.

 

All I am asking ICFers is to stay calm and remain grounded and wait for time to unravel the ability of the team under Kohli to perform in tough conditions outside SC, except WI and Zimbabwe.

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I agree that 4-0 whitewash hurt all of us. I am not saying that Kohli is not as good as you are claiming him to be. Fact is, we don't know yet. We need to hold on to see how this series pans out. If we don't whitewash this pathetic WI team, then it will be disappointing hoping that weather will not have an impact.

 

All I am asking ICFers is to stay calm and remain grounded and wait for time to unravel the ability of the team under Kohli to perform in tough conditions outside SC, except WI and Zimbabwe.

Agree.....

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

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27 minutes ago, Adi_91 said:

I agree that 4-0 whitewash hurt all of us. I am not saying that Kohli is not as good as you are claiming him to be. Fact is, we don't know yet. We need to hold on to see how this series pans out. If we don't whitewash this pathetic WI team, then it will be disappointing hoping that weather will not have an impact.

 

All I am asking ICFers is to stay calm and remain grounded and wait for time to unravel the ability of the team under Kohli to perform in tough conditions outside SC, except WI and Zimbabwe.

Also, i am not claiming that kohli is a good captain.....Thats too soon to say........I already noticed few things which could be changed....For instance, his anxitey to get wickets and in this process, somtimes he is coming up with bowling changes very quickly....

But, i am talking about his intent......Also, he is a bowling captain....In india where batting is worshipped, we need someone to pump up the bowlers.....Look at his post-match interview......he talked about the contributions of even mishra and Ishant, eventhough, their contribution in terms of wickets is less......

I am sure, we will develop a world-class bowling unit under his captaincy 

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2 minutes ago, gakgupta said:

Also, i am not claiming that kohli is a good captain.....Thats too soon to say........I already noticed few things which could be changed....For instance, his anxitey to get wickets and in this process, somtimes he is coming up with bowling changes very quickly....

But, i am talking about his intent......Also, he is a bowling captain....In india where batting is worshipped, we need someone to pump up the bowlers.....Look at his post-match interview......he talked about the contributions of even mishra and Ishant, eventhough, their contribution in terms of wickets is less......

I am sure, we will develop a world-class bowling unit under his captaincy 

I think all of us here in ICF will feel very relieved if India develops a potent bowling attack. If Kohli can take us there, then great. 

 

 

Edited by Adi_91
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5 hours ago, sandeep said:

Young captain leads our team to an expected but good win.  Our spinner gets overseas wickets, Yadav does well.  Kohli gets his 1st double ton. 

 

And some obsessive psychopaths would rather obsess over MSD.  Move.  the.  Duck. On.  

 

 

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Just now, MCcricket said:

 

It's not about that but learning looks like, BCCI , Selectors Dhoni never ever learn, Dhoni should have been replaced 4 or more years back n he caused a lot of damage after that to our test team, players career , n Indian cricket in general became a joke, he was too egotistic to change his way or learn or maybe not have it in him to captain test swatted the guiding lights who were responsible for India's performance like c,Tendulkar, Laxman, Zak , Dravid, left.

A professionally run sports body should be accountable n India's team performances n dismally losses for 4 years did not bring any action n what was required from selectors, firing Dhoni n good selections we lacked n wasted 4 years in trying loosers like Unadkunt, Arvind, Vinay, Sreeni ,Dhoni, selectors were the real culprits.Amarnath wanted to fire Dhoni but he was replaced, under Srenivas, Dhoni, was India's worst era, hope he is punished, Srinivas deserves that , corruption, nepotism, politics n no accountability n Dhoni was his henchman

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4 hours ago, gakgupta said:

hen 4 Indian bowlers are incapable to take 20 wickets outside sub-contient , you better go with 5 bowlers....this experiment might back-fire against quality teams but you r starting with an intent to win......

 

This is a fundamental flaw in the posts i see here again and again.   

 

you are not addressing the root cause and the failings  but want a solution (thats instrinsically shallow) 

 

where is the root cause addressed?  

 

1. Our bowlers are neither effective enough enough and strategically competent enough against experienced batsmen of australia ...

 

is this going to be addressed by hiring binny or mishra? only if developing quality bowlers is half as simple as this.

 

As long  as our bowlers are not of better quality, we are not going to take 20 wickets against top tier sides often,.

 

To take 20 wickets, our bowlers have to be effective and conversant in the conditions. thats why we take 20 wkts at home.

 

THIS is the prime criteria for 20 wkts.

 

This is a fact. not going to be addressed by 4 , 5 or 6 bowlers. 

 

Only better talent and better development of bowlers can address this.

 

2. Assuming a 5 man attack is more stronger than a 4 attack is a logical flaw without any basis. Just irrational.

 

The fifth bowler has to bring in something extra to make even a few percentage of difference. 

 

who is going to find a weighty fifth bowler in average talent pool??

 

When you see Countries with bowlers like bichel and kasper, their first four bowlers are/were very strong..for countries like india, our first three are ineffective outside asia. you are not going to find a good fifth bowler for those conditions

 

jadeja and mishra are not weighty enough in those conditions. jadeja is the most decent bet along with pandya.

 

 

3. Without the top 4 taking 15 wickets, its pointless to talk about the ffith bowler in any case.

 

even the likes of marsh are ineffective if the top 3 is not penetrative enough.

 

Good thinking requires you focus on the bowlers who  can take 14+ wickets.

 

Not on a fifth bowler who can take 1 -3 wickets if he is a genuine allrounder and 4-6 on a good match.leave alone hacks like binny 

who are useless

 

Even If we had the best fifth bowler style allrounder in the world, he is ineffective without the top 4's effectiveness

 

 

4. I am not confident the problem is going to be fully solved in the next 6-8 years unless aaron surprises me.

 

for now i just hope that bumrah ,aaron and shami would do better than srinath,venky and zaheer. that would be realistic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

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Poster above is missing a fundamental issue that is number of overs each bowler has to bowl , so even a wkt taking bowlers used like a stock bowler, with 4 bowlers how many captains will enforce a follow on, also you will see the difference in speeds n efforts all day round with 5 bowlers , so it's to me a short sighted debate, 5 bowlers or a decent allrounder with 4 main bowlers

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