Bhuvneshwar Kumar Fan Club

[rkt.india]

30 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

i dont think bk is inconsistent ,he lacks the physicality of a starc ,but you can depend on him and you can expect what he will provide,he can do a job in these conditions and can keep runs down if conditions dont help,the problem is if you cant bowl out the opposition and  the innings becomes too long then all these bowlers start to fall away .

 I never said BK is inconsistent but he lacks that x-factor when ball does not move. Shami and Umesh can make use of bounce and reverse but they are still unreliable and inconsistent. You can 90% rely on BK when it comes to economical bowling, especially, in test matches.

36 minutes ago, Texan said:

Your comment said that he had one good spell in two years, trying to imply that he played a lot of Test cricket in the last 2 years and never bowled a great spell. All I pointed out to you is that he only played 1 Test, in which he did bowl poorly, partly because he was coming back from an injury. Now, if you quote it as only 1 good spell since 1 Test, it doesn't sound that bad, does it?

i talked about ODI and Tests together, not just tests. We have not played many tests in this period.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

 All fast bowlers are cr@p, then play without any fast bowlers?

All our pacers ( Shami, Umesh, Bhuvi and Ishant )  average between 34 and 37 in test matches.  Wickets per test is  also low apart from Shami .  That proves that they are mediocre and condition dependent.       In terms of all-condition ability, Shami is marginally better than the rest with around 4 wickets per test and average of 34 ( before this test match ).

 

We have to keep this in mind and select our pacers based on playing conditions. Horses for courses policy is the only answer until and unless we can unearth new all-condition pacers.

Edited August 13, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

39 minutes ago, Texan said:

So, what is your point? All fast bowlers are cr@p, then play without any fast bowlers?

No, my point is that they all are same then why you are signaling out only bowlers who bowl fast. They are not bad because they are fast but because they are not god enough to bowl consistently in right areas. It is not like bowlers who are not fast have done great. Even BK gets consistent success in future in test cricket that will be because he has gained some pace, so, pace is important. He himself is striving to become quicker. My problem is downplaying pace. West Indies attack got better because they played quicker bowlers in Joseph and Cummins dropping Brathwaite. Holder himself has been toothless despite being 6 foot 7 tall.  

 

We should not despise pace rather strive for those bowlers with pace to get better in consistency. If they do not then drop them and gives chances to other such bowlers. We might eventually get 1-2 good bowlers out of 15-20 we try. We need to increase that. I have no problem in dropping Yadav because he bowled really badly in second test but people forgot that he has helped us won 2 out of last 3 tests he played. Ishant less said the better.

[Mosher]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

So glad to see Bhuvi come good. Doubters will always want their phhaaasssshhhhttttt bowlers like Mr Spearhead who give no returns in the team. But those who truly appreciate the nuances of cricket will know that bowlers like Bhuvi are rare finds. He keeps chugging at the batsman on the right line and length and moves the ball just enough to beat the batsman or get the edge. Here's a bowler that truly deserves his chances.

 

Sorry phassshttt bowler lovers, your love for speed guns doesn't always translate into wickets.

 

We should stop hyping up players after one good performance and run down other players. The same phassst bowlers picked up 9 wickets in the 1st test(Shami 4 and Yadav 5 wkts). Every bowler that we have has pluses and minuses. BK is the best we have when the ball is swinging but ineffective when it doesn't swing. Shami is probably the most skillful bowler we have but he too can be inconsistent. Yadav has a good outswinger and is good when the ball is reversing but has a problem with accuracy. I agree with you on Ishant though. He has got far too many chances compared to other bowlers without doing much. Aaron is the fastest bowler we have and can bowl good bouncers and can reverse the old ball but he too has problems with accuracy. Bumrah has not yet played any test matches but he should be given a go. We have a decent pool of fast bowlers for different conditions but we are still a long way away from being a good bowling attack.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

 

Sorry phassshttt bowler lovers, your love for speed guns doesn't always translate into wickets.

 

 

You are forgetting that Bhuvi has bowled almost 10 k quicker in this test match compared to what he was doing 2 years back.  He was getting decent bounce with some deliveries too and 2 wickets and 2 dropped catches were from such deliveries. It is naive to think that Bhuvi would have been as effective as yesterday if he had bowled 120 k to 130 k, as he was doing in 2014.

 

Just  high pace does not get wickets regularly  and bowlers need to combine pace/bounce with accuracy and movement and set up batsmen......and I have never seen any fast bowler lover claim otherwise.

 

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Mosher said:

We should stop hyping up players after one good performance and run down other players. The same phassst bowlers picked up 9 wickets in the 1st test(Shami 4 and Yadav 5 wkts).

Some posters are conveniently forgetting Shami's 8 wickets from the last 2 test matches after returning from such a serious injury.   Umesh's  10 wickets in the 2 test matches preceding the last seems to have had no value to the team as he is phaast.     

Edited August 13, 2016 by express bowling

[sandeep]

Please take Yadav bashing or defending elsewhere.  This is the Bhuvi thread. :D

 

 

Bhuvi Presser after 5'fer.

 

 

[gakgupta]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

You are forgetting that Bhuvi has bowled almost 10 k quicker in this test match compared to what he was doing 2 years back.  He was getting decent bounce with some deliveries too and 2 wickets and 2 dropped catches were from such deliveries. It is naive to think that Bhuvi would have been as effective as yesterday if he had bowled 120 k to 130 k, as he was doing in 2014.

 

Just  high pace does not get wickets regularly  and bowlers need to combine pace/bounce with accuracy and movement and set up batsmen......and I have never seen any fast bowler lover claim otherwise.

 

 

i have seen his spell yesterday and most of his deliveries were in 130-135 kmph....this pace is little more than the previous pace...

i think what worked was his using of crease....this is the huge weapon and can work wonders.....

[Texan]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

No, my point is that they all are same then why you are signaling out only bowlers who bowl fast. They are not bad because they are fast but because they are not god enough to bowl consistently in right areas. It is not like bowlers who are not fast have done great. Even BK gets consistent success in future in test cricket that will be because he has gained some pace, so, pace is important. He himself is striving to become quicker. My problem is downplaying pace. West Indies attack got better because they played quicker bowlers in Joseph and Cummins dropping Brathwaite. Holder himself has been toothless despite being 6 foot 7 tall.  

 

We should not despise pace rather strive for those bowlers with pace to get better in consistency. If they do not then drop them and gives chances to other such bowlers. We might eventually get 1-2 good bowlers out of 15-20 we try. We need to increase that. I have no problem in dropping Yadav because he bowled really badly in second test but people forgot that he has helped us won 2 out of last 3 tests he played. Ishant less said the better.

Of course, pace is one aspect that is important. However, my whole point is that is not the only aspect to fast bowling. A good pace bowler thinks batsmen out. A good pace bowler keeps plugging away in that channel to get batsmen to play at. A good pace bowler utilizes the crease to his advantage. A good pace bowler can exploit any little advantage that conditions can offer. 

 

You yourself said that BK has increased his pace by few yards. BK already has most of the other ingredients. Now, given a chance, he has shown that he can also add a few yards to his pace. But many people like yourself just typecast him as a trundler and not capable of improving his pace. Contrast that with Varun Aaron. No matter how many matches he has got, he has never learned the other ingredients of being a good pace bowler. All he can do is register on the speed gun, but he doesn't even look as threatening as a medium pacer who plugs away at a good length. So, my whole point is that we should not belittle bowlers who show us that they have all the other ingredients of being a pace bowler but are not consistently registering 140 on the speed gun. We should stop this speed gun analysis of bowlers and rather look at how they engage batsmen and how they plan their wickets. Sure, a bare minimum pace may be required to trouble international batsmen, but after that bowlers should be evaluated on multiple aspects and not just pace. 

 

By the way, I do think Shami is a fine bowler, at least he puts in his heart into bowling, unlike spearhead who just is as brainless as he was and will probably continue to be. Even Umesh has learnt to swing the ball and is much more effective. But lets not forget - none of them is a 150+ bowler like Starc or Wahab. So, without the other ingredients, they cannot just get wickets on pace alone.

 

When people say that BK is not effective when conditions are flat, well, none of our other bowlers are either. At least with BK he will keep the run flow down and when we are batting, he may even make some runs. Everybody remembers how badly he bowled in that Test in Australia but nobody seems to remember how well he batted in both innings that helped us save that Test. 

[express bowling]

40 minutes ago, gakgupta said:

i have seen his spell yesterday and most of his deliveries were in 130-135 kmph....this pace is little more than the previous pace...

i think what worked was his using of crease....this is the huge weapon and can work wonders.....

Most of his deliveries were actually in the 128 k to 138 k range. Can remember at least four deliveries at 138 k .   That is good pace if you are swinging the ball both ways with accuracy.... like  Bhuvi was doing yesterday.  When he was not bowling well in test matches, he was bowling mostly in the 120s.

 

Also, don't discount the bounce he got on occasions.

 

These are additional factors ofcourse and basically embellished his main weapons of swing both ways and accuracy.

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, Texan said:

Of course, pace is one aspect that is important. However, my whole point is that is not the only aspect to fast bowling. A good pace bowler thinks batsmen out.

neither we who talk about fast bowlers only talk about pace. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

20 minutes ago, Texan said:

When people say that BK is not effective when conditions are flat, well, none of our other bowlers are either. At least with BK he will keep the run flow down and when we are batting, he may even make some runs. Everybody remembers how badly he bowled in that Test in Australia but nobody seems to remember how well he batted in both innings that helped us save that Test. 

Regarding this, Umesh Yadav averages in mid 20s at home on flat pitches in India. He recently helped us win a test which has draw written all over it and that was not the only test he had major contribution in our win at home.

 

Also him being economical on flat tracks, let him first play on those flat tracks like in Aus and then we will see whether he is economical or not.  We cannot just assume that he will be economical. This test he playe din Australia and  he wasnt economical by any means.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/engine/match/754743.html

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by rkt.india

[Silva]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Regarding this, Umesh Yadav averages in mid 20s at home on flat pitches in India. He recently helped us win a test which has draw written all over it and that was not the only test he had major contribution in our win at home.

 

Also him being economical on flat tracks, let him first play on those flat tracks like in Aus and then we will see whether he is economical or not.  We cannot just assume that he will be economical. This test he playe din Australia and  he wasnt economical by any means.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/engine/match/754743.html

 

Even their the captain gave him the ball more often than shami and yadav. 

[sandeep]

Another 5-fer at home.  Class is class boys.  A bit of help for seamers, and Bhuvi runs rampant.  

[zaqw222222]

Like his funda of keeping it simple and not over trying many things. Hope he continues his good form

[Texan]

Wow! Another outstanding spell. Bhuv, keep going and keep proving your detractors wrong. They will keep looking at the speed gun and you keep,picking wickets. 

On 8/12/2016 at 8:24 PM, rkt.india said:

One good spell in two years since England tour.

Add one more. 

[Silva]

Imagine what he would have done had he got to play in the swing friendly conditions in new zealand or the seamer friendly pitches in sri lanka.  The only place he would struggle in is australia but every bowler struggles their.

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Silva said:

Imagine what he would have done had he got to play in the swing friendly conditions in new zealand or the seamer friendly pitches in sri lanka.  The only place he would struggle in is australia but every bowler struggles their.

In SL only one pitch was seamer friendly, 3rd test where Ishant took 8 wickets.

[rkt.india]

Only Indian fast bowler who knows the area to bowl to trouble batsmen, create doubts and get wickets. Guptil and Nicholas were the victims of that doubt and indecision.

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Only Indian fast bowler who knows the area to bowl to trouble batsmen, create doubts and get wickets. Guptil and Nicholas were the victims of that doubt and indecision.

Guptil's wicket was partially due to the unusual  bounce that bowlers are getting on this pitch.