In policy shift, Narendra Modi brings up Balochistan again

[velu]

Quote

Diplomats say the Prime Minister’s decision to raise the topic in his Independence Day speech was an ‘unprecedented’ move

In a significant shift in policy on Pakistan, Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a reference to the Baloch freedom struggle in his Independence Day speech, saying the people in the conflicted Pakistani state of Balochistan, as also in Gilgit and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, had reached out to him. Pakistan responded by saying the statement “confirmed” India’s role there.

“Today from the ramparts of Red Fort, I want to greet and express my thanks to some people. In the last few days, people of Balochistan, Gilgit, Pakistan-occupied Kashmir have thanked me, have expressed gratitude, and expressed good wishes for me. The people who are living far away, whom I have never seen, never met — such people have expressed appreciation for Prime Minister of India, for 125 crore countrymen,” Mr. Modi said.

The reference comes a few days after the Prime Minister vowed to take up atrocities by the Pakistani government in these three areas on the international stage, when he spoke to an all-party delegation about the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. Since then, government officials say Mr. Modi had received many messages on social media from Baloch groups and Kashmiris around the world and in Pakistan thanking him for his support.

 

In sharp contrast
Repeating the charge against Pakistan on its support to terror groups in Kashmir, Mr. Modi accused the Pakistan government of glorifying terrorists, saying the Sharif government’s actions came in sharp contrast to India’s empathy with Pakistanis over terror attacks there, as after the Peshawar school massacre of 2014. “On the other side, terrorism is being glorified. When innocent people are killed in terrorist attacks, there are celebrations. How governments are formed through inspiration of terrorism. The world will understand this difference clearly,” he said.

Within hours, Pakistan’s government responded to the Prime Minister’s comments on Balochistan. “PM Modi’s reference to Balochistan, which is an integral part of Pakistan, only proves Pakistan’s contention that India through intelligence agency RAW has been fomenting terrorism in Balochistan,” Foreign Affairs Adviser Sartaj Aziz said on Monday.

The Foreign Ministry in Islamabad, meanwhile, handed over a letter inviting Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar for talks on Kashmir, in line with the already existent terrorism talks mechanism between National Security Adviser Ajit Doval and his counterpart. “Kashmir requires a political solution, through serious negotiations between India and Pakistan,” Mr. Aziz said.

 

 

Unprecedented mention
Diplomats said the Prime Minister’s decision to raise Balochistan in his speech was “unprecedented” as India has rarely referred to the freedom movement in the state, and has consistently denied any assistance to Baloch nationalists group as alleged by Pakistan. While India claims Gilgit-Baltistan and PoK as its territory, the government has always steered clear of referring to Pakistan’s “internal troubles” in Balochistan, a former envoy said.

Other former senior officials who spoke to The Hindu said that while the External Affairs Ministry had referred to Pakistani government bombing its people in Balochistan in December 2005, and then criticised the killing of Baloch leader Nawab Akbar Shahbaz Khan Bugti in an airstrike in 2006, the Prime Minister’s reference was both rare and “on a new level”.

“Although we made those references to Balochistan in 2005-06, and even asked our High Commissioner to visit Gilgit-Baltistan, we never followed it up at the time, as the government was divided on the issue,” said former Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran, who was known to advocate a harder line on using Balochistan as a “pressure point” on Pakistan.

According to a former Pakistani diplomat, Jehangir Ashraf Qazi, Mr. Modi’s latest statement will “escalate the verbal conflict” between the two countries. “Unfortunately, both Prime Ministers Modi and Sharif are addressing domestic constituencies and not giving up much space for diplomacy, which is much needed,” he added, a reference to Nawaz Sharif’s recent comments accusing India of atrocities in Kashmir.

During his speech, Mr. Modi said he had reached out to Pakistan and other SAARC neighbours when he took office in 2014 because “our common enemy is poverty”. The PM made no reference, however, to his decision to travel to Pakistan in December 2015, or any plans to visit Pakistan for the SAARC summit later this year, indicating that the government’s diplomatic outreach to Pakistan may now be at an end.

However, some suggested the harsh statements between Delhi and Islamabad were linked to the violence in Kashmir. “Once the situation there is more peaceful, the rhetoric will calm down. There is such a reservoir of bad blood between the two countries, a few more statements will not make much difference,” a senior diplomat, now retired, said.

 

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/in-policy-shift-narendra-modi-brings-up-balochistan-again/article8991513.ece

 

not sure modi is trolling pakistan or not but if pakistan keeps poking in kashmir , we shld support our oil/gas rich baloch brothers  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[randomGuy]

20,000-25,000 people disappeared in last few years. 

 

Many others murdered in cold blood.

 

Its terrible.

 

And over that, no education, no development, total negligence and abject poverty. Hope other countries including China (and the US and Europe ofcourse) also support the Baloch freedom movement.

[Trichromatic]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

20,000-25,000 people disappeared in last few years. 

 

Many others murdered in cold blood.

 

Its terrible.

 

And over that, no education, no development, total negligence and abject poverty. Hope other countries including China (and the US and Europe ofcourse) also support the Baloch freedom movement.

China won't do it. They need to create a shorted trade route and Balochistan is part of that. 

 

Even India can just use it as pressure tactic. A strong freedom movement in Balochistan will also hurt Iran as the separatist movement may gain momentum in their province of Baluchestan. Iran won't let that happen.

[MechEng]

2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

20,000-25,000 people disappeared in last few years. 

 

Many others murdered in cold blood.

 

Its terrible.

 

And over that, no education, no development, total negligence and abject poverty. Hope other countries including China (and the US and Europe ofcourse) also support the Baloch freedom movement.

Why should China support Baloch freedom movement ? They need a stronger Pakistan to keep us under pressure. 

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

China won't do it. They need to create a shorted trade route and Balochistan is part of that. 

 

Even India can just use it as pressure tactic. A strong freedom movement in Balochistan will also hurt Iran as the separatist movement may gain momentum in their province of Baluchestan. Iran won't let that happen.

 

19 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Why should China support Baloch freedom movement ? They need a stronger Pakistan to keep us under pressure. 

China is a hope. Let's say things get sorted on south china sea and NSG and the trust deficit gets filled. China would want good relations with India I think.

[Tibarn]

Guess which party criticized the PM on the Balochistan portion of the speech. 

[velu]

27 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Guess which party criticized the PM on the Balochistan portion of the speech. 

they actually slept

 

[chewy]

This is unprecedented from Indian government.

 

A systematic genocide by Pakistan army has been going on in Balochistan for years. 

Wont be surprised another part of Pakistan gains inpendence from Pakistan whilst Pakistan continue waiting for  Kashmir  

5 hours ago, Tibarn said:

Guess which party criticized the PM on the Balochistan portion of the speech. 

NDTV? 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Trichromatic

[Tibarn]

5 hours ago, chewy said:

This is unprecedented from Indian government.

 

A systematic genocide by Pakistan army has been going on in Balochistan for years. 

Wont be surprised another part of Pakistan gains inpendence from Pakistan whilst Pakistan continue waiting for  Kashmir  

NDTV? 

 Yeah I noticed some of the NDTV and associated patrakars like Saggy G needed some burnol. But I was referring to these clowns:

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Trichromatic

[BeautifulGame]

8 hours ago, Tibarn said:

 Yeah I noticed some of the NDTV and associated patrakars like Saggy G needed some burnol. But I was referring to these clowns:

 

CPM do have a point.This is something Govt should tread carefully or could easily boomerang on us with regard to Kashmir.

Quote

 

“Yesterday, in his speech, the Prime Minister spoke about human rights violations in Balochistan and Gilgit. We have been saying that Kashmir is an integral part of India. Nobody has the right to interfere in its affairs. But now we have started talking about Balochistan.

“We are giving an opportunity to Pakistan by raising the Balochistan issue. Now Pakistan may say that since India is taking about Balochistan, which is an integral part of that country, they have the right to talk about Kashmir. With this kind of foreign policy, we are giving an opportunity to others to internationalise the Kashmir issue,” Mr. Yechuri said.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by BeautifulGame

[randomGuy]

^ India and China have an understanding that India doesn't speak on Tibet and China doesn't speak on Kashmir.

 

No one else cares about Pakistan apart from maybe a relatively insignificant turkey.

 

This should have been done before. Anyways never too late and people should focus on atrocities being carried out on Baluch people as the situation is actually terrible. Somewhat similar to Bangladesh in 1971. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by randomGuy

[Vilander]

No amount of International pressure will make India vacate land. World economy can not afford any economic sanction on countries like Ind,Thailand,Malaysia etc, its not feasible. Dont worry lads, there is going to be no change on the ground. Indian troops all .5 million of them will stay there eventually there will be pandit townships there.

[chewy]

Looks like Bangladesh backs India's stand on Pakistan human rights abuse in Balochistan.

 

Bangladesh on Wednesday came out in support of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s stand on the Balochistan issue, saying Dhaka would soon make a policy declaration on Pakistan’s human rights abuses in Balochistan.

Speaking to The Hindu, Hasanul Haque Inu, the visiting Minister of Information in the Sheikh Hasina government, said Balochistan was facing the brunt of Pakistan’s military establishment, which “targeted” the Bengalis in East Pakistan in 1971 before the creation of Bangladesh.

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/bangladesh-backs-modi-on-balochistan/article8999721.ece

[Tibarn]

@beautifulgame sorry my first reply didn't work, but anyway...

 

I disagree; Yechury’s argument is logically and factually disjointed. Essentially Yechury says three things:

A:  The PM spoke about human rights violations in Balochistan and Gilgit both of which are parts of Pakistan
B:  It is the Indian position that Kashmir is an integral part of India, and that no one should interfere in our internal matters.
C:  If the PM raises the issue of human rights violations in Balochistan/Gilgit, Pakistan can now say that they have the right to speak Kashmir, and thus internationalize the issue.

 
His argument therefore follows as:
Premise: By the PM speaking on an internal matter of Pakistan, he grants Pakistan the ability and legitimacy of raking up Kashmir internationally.  
Inferences:  Pakistan currently doesn’t have the ability to/hasn’t internationalized the Kashmir issue. By taking up the issue of the two regions, Pakistan now gains the aforementioned ability to do so. It is damaging for India, if this happens.    
Conclusion: The PM should refrain from taking up the issue of the two regions, as it could weaken our      position.
 

Problems of the argument:  
1)   The Kashmir issue has already been “internationalized”. PM Nehru himself took the Kashmir issue to the UN. Since that event, the Shimla Agreement happened. Even disregarding Shimla, the preconditions for a plebiscite have not been met, and they may not be possible anymore. Over the years, other countries have attempted to be involved, ie the UK parliament had a debate on the issue, and every American president is expected to be an arbiter for peace in this conflict. Any interference has been rebuffed.  The issue is essentially in a diplomatic logjam. Only two countries can really solve the issue, the rest have no standing or feasible options. 

2)   Pakistan has always talked about the issue, regardless of who was in power in either country. Anything they could possibly say on Kashmir has already been said. Kashmir represents their raison d'etre. It is an issue they will always bring up, as they have regularly at the UN. , and an issue they try to avoid “solving”. They already had to forcefully seize Balochistan and Gilgit, and the Kashmiri separatists, aside from the few ISI backed fools, dream of total independence from either country. This is common knowledge to all relevant countries’ diplomats.

    
3) The question of increasing Pakistan’s legitimacy on the issue is also pointless. Pakistan’s existential charter is essentially a homeland for “Indian Muslims.” Their claim to Kashmir is solely based on its religious demographic. They have no legal claim, based on the Partition era framework, and they have no backing among the bulk of the separatists. Any new legitimacy Pakistan could gain would have to come from a fundamental evaporation of the separate Kashmiri Muslim identity in order to be subsumed into a Pakistani, pan-Islamic identity. 

Here comes a problem for Pakistan. Despite their bizarre racial theories of their origins, the bulk, if not close to entirety of their country is Ajlaf and Arzal, hardly of the status to warrant a leadership role for a pan-Islamic state. That status would belong to an Ashraf like a Pathan or a Turk, not a Punjabi. 

 

There is another problem,  by highlighting the brutality of Pakistan in Balochistan, to Sunnis, and Gilgit, to Shias, Pakistan is exposed as what it is: a Punjabi dominated, highly racist state, that loved it’s fellow Muslims so much that it decided to rape the Hindu out of Bengali Muslim women. India failed to highlight internationally the savagery of Pakistan in Bangladesh. There is no reason to fail to do so for Balochistan/Gilgit. 

 

4) The idea that Yechury has is: it could weaken our position by showing us as hypocrites who interfere with another country while demanding others don’t interfere in ours. This is a laughable and misplaced, moralistic criticism. There is no evidence that we are interfering in any country, aside from conspiracy theories. Thus far, the most that has been done is the highlighting of human rights violations. This has already been done to us in regards to violations in Kashmir. Countries regularly highlight such issues in other countries. Even China has criticized human rights violations in the United States. As I mentioned before, India failed to even highlight the atrocities in Bangladesh, which was no less than a Holocaust, but here is a chance to not only show diplomatic force, but also to give voices to voiceless Balochis in their hour of need. If morality is a concern, there is no option but to highlight this issue. 

 

The idea that India would be a hypocrite is irrelevant. Diplomacy is drenched in hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. Every country, instead of following a consistent, linear logic with regards to issues, follows their own internal logic that applies solely to their situations. Western countries preach secularism to some countries, ally with religious fanatics in others, topple democratically elected governments in some, and invade others to spread democracy. India’s reputation in the diplomatic world is almost solely dependent on her ability to honor agreements, not applying the same, arbitrary standards to everyone. We need no hyphen, and our points are salient on their own.
 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Tibarn

[mishra]

Baluch independence struggle is about 400 years old. However since Americas war on terror began, Pakistani ISI and army have been systematically eliminating killing Baluch leaders and baluch kids and branding them terrorist. This has nothing to do with Kashmir Afghan or anyone. Simple fact is Pakistan is ruled by Punjabi population. Just like Bangledeshis, Not everyone will fall for name "Pakistan" as their is no equality or equal opportunity among population of same country

 

If we are to believe, terror groups of Pakistan do NOT exist in Punjab. Everywhere else, there are terrorists.

[KeyboardWarrior]

Thanks to Modi Ji .... 

 

http://www.dw.com/ur/مودی-کے-بیان-کے-خلاف-بلوچستان-میں-بڑے-پیمانے-پر-احتجاج/a-19485815

 

 

 

[velu]

1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Thanks to Modi Ji .... 

 

http://www.dw.com/ur/مودی-کے-بیان-کے-خلاف-بلوچستان-میں-بڑے-پیمانے-پر-احتجاج/a-19485815

 

 

 

 

country which sheltered osama cant be trusted

[Asim]

modi tried to play smart to get international attention off the Kashmir but Good for Pak bcz ind in a way surrendered their typical "our internal affair" justification over Kashmir or Any Other issue... Pak can happily accept this policy shift to demand an equal involvement of international elements to judge issues in Kashmir (where things are at worst of previous 2,3 decades) as well as Baluchistan (where things are at best of previous 2,3 decades)... (China obviously got to support Pakistan over any such issue bcz of their massive long term future stakes linked with Pak)

[randomGuy]

^Just because there is or isn't problem  in another part of the world doesn't give u right to massacre ur own citizens by thousands every year. Seems like u didn't learn from east Pakistan experience. World community will come together to liberate Baluchistan as well.

 

 

China will just write off the tiny sum of 100-200 million dollars that it has invested till now. It's funny how u people think China will bail u out.  

[Asim]

^ 100-200mil? :D its anyways more about their long term future interests than whatever tiny amount they are/have invested and china like every other country will do whatever nd as long as benifits them so its obv not that we r/will 'depend' on them...

Yes, u r right... just because there is some problem in one part of Pakistan does'nt give another country right to occupy some land and massacare thousands of people every year... and definitely we would like world community to come together and liberate Kashmiris who r fighting for their freedom since decades...