Pak VS India in terms of pace bowling

[renjith]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I did not talk about World 11 bowlers.

 

That Wahab and Rahat are better than Umesh and Ishant  is just your opinion. Their respective performances don't suggest that.

Yes it's my opinion only and it's not purely based on stats. When I see them bowl I feel selectors should have looked for replacements much much earlier.

[express bowling]

46 minutes ago, renjith said:

Yes it's my opinion only and it's not purely based on stats. When I see them bowl I feel selectors should have looked for replacements much much earlier.

The selectors should definitely look for replacements all the time till we find pacers like Steyn and Starc.

 

I don't dispute the fact that most of our pacers are mediocre.  I am just saying that  most current day Pakistani, SL, NZ and  WI  pacers are mediocre too.

Edited August 26, 2016 by express bowling

[renjith]

43 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The selectors should definitely look for replacements all the time till we find pacers like Steyn and Starc.

 

I don't dispute the fact that most of our pacers are mediocre.  I am just saying that  most current day Pakistani, SL, NZ and  WI  pacers are mediocre too.

Agree to some extent.

 

Personally I will pick bolt, southe, wahab, Rahat,  eranga, prasad ahead of Ishant or Umesh irrespective of bowling condition.

[Tibarn]

Last 5 years

 

Tests 

Overall figures

Team	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
India	12	2011-2016	43	200	3358.0	605	11662	298	7/74	9/118	39.13	3.47	67.6	11	0
Pakistan	16	2011-2016	34	149	2631.0	435	8659	233	6/127	8/151	37.16	3.29	67.7	9	0

ODI

Overall figures

Team	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
India	25	2011-2016	97	318	2358.5	119	13493	375	5/61	35.98	5.72	37.7	13	1
Pakistan	18	2011-2016	80	226	1784.0	73	9821	271	5/55	36.23	5.50	39.4	5	1

T20

Overall figures

Team	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
India	22	2011-2016	36	107	334.0	5	2631	109	4/19	24.13	7.87	18.3	1	0
Pakistan	18	2011-2016	44	122	396.1	3	3229	129	5/6	25.03	8.15	18.4	2	1

 

 

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, renjith said:

Agree to some extent.

 

Personally I will pick bolt, southe, wahab, Rahat,  eranga, prasad ahead of Ishant or Umesh irrespective of bowling condition.

 

 

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, renjith said:

@vilander, @express intl class does not mean they have to make world 11. neither do they have to be legends. Amir and wahab are intl class bowlers. Rahat is a high quality bowler. So is junaid. Not sure why he was not picked.

For me those guys are way ahead of the likes of Ishant Umesh varun aaron,  ...

read my post again. I am never saying they should, i explain the contrary and differentiate world class and Internationals. For me when it might be that when i do weed, i get so stoned that Santa becomes real,  but then i dont have to proclaim it here saying 'for me' this for me that. Dont cop out bring substantiation if its your opinion its irrelevant in a fact based forum, go write in a fiction story writing forum maybe.

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, renjith said:

Agree to some extent.

 

Personally I will pick bolt, southe, wahab, Rahat,  eranga, prasad ahead of Ishant or Umesh irrespective of bowling condition.

just perception

[renjith]

7 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

 

Chill down Bro. Forums are meant for people to express their views. You have all rights to disagree but that is different from ridiculing other members.

[renjith]

54 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

just perception

When @express thinks nz seamers are mediocre, it's his perception. When @Vilander thinks eng seamers are poor than indian, it's just his perception. Everyone is entitled to theirs.

[rkt.india]

25 minutes ago, renjith said:

When @express thinks nz seamers are mediocre, it's his perception. When @Vilander thinks eng seamers are poor than indian, it's just his perception. Everyone is entitled to theirs.

no. they are not talking about from perception but from stats. Stats say they are as average as our bowlers. Only you who says our bowlers are worse despite stats showing otherwise and that is called perception. and remember likes of Umesh Yadav is yet to play a single test in England, NZ, South Africa countries that are known for conditions somewhat helpful for fast bowlers. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by rkt.india

[renjith]

49 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

no. they are not talking about from perception but from stats. Stats say they are as average as our bowlers. Only you who says our bowlers are worse despite stats showing otherwise and that is called perception. and remember likes of Umesh Yadav is yet to play a single test in England, NZ, South Africa countries that are known for conditions somewhat helpful for fast bowlers. 

Stats says vinay kumar is the best bowler in india. Do we have to agree with that.

I accepted the stats @express posted. But just was looking at other aspects as well.

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, renjith said:

Stats says vinay kumar is the best bowler in india. Do we have to agree with that.

I accepted the stats @express posted. But just was looking at other aspects as well.

yes, Vinay Kumar is one of the best bowlers in our domestic cricket. Stats dont lie and he is good in domestic cricket but domestic success does not guarantee success in international cricket.

[renjith]

14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

yes, Vinay Kumar is one of the best bowlers in our domestic cricket. Stats dont lie and he is good in domestic cricket but domestic success does not guarantee success in international cricket.

For making that judgement you considered other aspects of his bowling rite. That's only what I was trying to say. How do people say dhawal won't succeed in intl cricket. It's the same logic.

Edited August 27, 2016 by renjith

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, renjith said:

Stats says vinay kumar is the best bowler in india. Do we have to agree with that.

 

Vinay is definitely one of the best bowlers in Indian domestic cricket.   But he is bad at international level.  The reason is......

 

In domestic matches, most batsmen are not international class.  Accurate bowling, with some movement,  at 127 k is good enough to dismiss most of them. 

 

Problem is...in international cricket, batsmen do not make mistakes if a short bowler, without bounce, is bowling at 127 k.

 

 

[renjith]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Vinay is definitely one of the best bowlers in Indian domestic cricket.   But he is bad at international level.  The reason is......

 

In domestic matches, most batsmen are not international class.  Accurate bowling, with some movement,  at 127 k is good enough to dismiss most of them. 

 

Problem is...in international cricket, batsmen do not make mistakes if a short bowler, without bounce, is bowling at 127 k.

 

 

The factors you mentioned is beyond stats rite?

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

no. they are not talking about from perception but from stats. Stats say they are as average as our bowlers. Only you who says our bowlers are worse despite stats showing otherwise and that is called perception. and remember likes of Umesh Yadav is yet to play a single test in England, NZ, South Africa countries that are known for conditions somewhat helpful for fast bowlers. 

 

A very important point that is missed by many.   Yadav has never been played a test in conditions best for pace bowling....and yet, he has the best SR among Indian pacers ever.

 

From : ESPNCRICINFO

 

                                                 Mat                                  Wic                         Ave               SR

in Australia	2011-2015	7	12	236.3	29	1099	25	5/93	7/176	43.96	4.64	56.7	1	0
in Bangladesh	2015-2015	1	2	9.0	1	49	0	-	-	-	5.44	-	0	0
in India	2011-2015	7	14	171.3	33	549	23	4/80	7/103	23.86	3.20	44.7	0	0
in Sri Lanka	2015-2015	2	4	54.0	11	214	5	2/65	3/129	42.80	3.96	64.8	0	0
in West Indies	2016-2016	2	4	49.0	15	149	5	4/41	5/75	29.80	3.04	58.8	0	0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/376116.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

Edited August 27, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, renjith said:

The factors you mentioned is beyond stats rite?

 

No.... I explained the reasons for good stats by Vinay Kumar in domestic cricket and bad stats for him in international cricket.

 

Vinay  Kumar does not have good stats in international cricket.

[renjith]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

No.... I explained the reasons for good stats by Vinay Kumar in domestic cricket and bad stats for him in international cricket.

 

Vinay  Kumar does not have good stats in international cricket.

Are you saying that stats is the only criteria for judging a player? Following your posts you were the one who really wanted to look beyond stats when selecting plyers from domestic for A and senior teams.

Edited August 27, 2016 by renjith

[rkt.india]

50 minutes ago, renjith said:

For making that judgement you considered other aspects of his bowling rite. That's only what I was trying to say. How do people say dhawal won't succeed in intl cricket. It's the same logic.

Yes, those aspects. I dont see anything that current Pak or SL fast bowlers and Indian fast bowlers do not have, even skill wise. I do not see much of a difference.

[rkt.india]

11 minutes ago, renjith said:

Are you saying that stats is the only criteria for judging a player?

No, stats alone isnt a criteria but that is important too. If those bowlers are so good, their stats must back their claims too.