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Pak VS India in terms of pace bowling


gakgupta

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Its hard for Pakistanis to accept that the Indian fast bowlers have improved by a fair margin and the Pakistanis have deteriorated by an even greater extent. Indians have been the first to admit that Pakistani bowlers of the past were greats, if Pakistanis would like to remain ignorant that the Indians are better or worse case, as good as Pakistani bowlers now, they will be living in a fools paradise. 

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On 9/8/2016 at 4:19 AM, the don said:

In test cricket Pakistani bowling unit is well ahead .

In limited overs Pakistan have found a very goodun in hasan ali .

With sarfraz as captain pakistan will produce results pretty soon .

Amir is excellent . Imad wasim is clever , hasan ali is a good find ,sohail khan has always done well and wahab is currently the fastest bowler in the world.

Pakistan is well ahead of other asian sides wrt bowling .

Yes they had a few poor odi games but India conceded 240 odd in a t20 game too . Just the way it goes these days .

I think Bumrah from.India has potential to be a good limited overs bowler.

No doubt, pakistan will prosper under sarfaraz.....he seems to be street-smart cricketer.....Not sure whose decision it is to make him a captain....but i would like to give that credit to Inzy....

Coming to bowling....you have sugar-coating the current state of pak bowling....it's good but not great...and marginally ahead of indian bowling in test matches...

Remember, your so called fastest bowler (Wahab) was dropped from team for the third test against England....

Talent-wise pak may be ahead but performance-wise, they are same (Wahab has to be dropped to extract the performance out of him....thats the sorry state to be in......Playing for the nation itself should be the motivation)

Edited by gakgupta
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The Indian fast bowling unit has done really well in the last one year  starting from the WI tour of middle 2016.

 

In test matches, Shami and Umesh have formed a formidable combination ....Shami has done well throughout and Umesh has really improved in the later part of this one year period.

 

Bhuvi has bowled well whenever he has got chances..... Ishant is a decent support who does better on away tours.

 

We have seen all our fast bowlers bowling quick and sustaining pace throughout the day in tests....hitting the deck hard and using bounce well....improving their accuracy.... getting seam movement and reverse swing

 

In ODIs, Bumrah and Bhuvi have done well, especially in the end-overs.  Shami is a top quality ODI fast bowler and Umesh has done decently when used in the first 40 overs. Pandya has provided decent support as the all-rounder.

 

They have contributed significantly to our very good team performance in the last one year..... winning all 5 test series.... winning both ODI bilateral series.... finalist in CT.... winning the T20I series vs England. Apart from the loss in the CT final, it has been a dream run.

 

Our fast bowling reserves are looking good too.... Siraj, Thampi, Nathu, Avesh, Khejroliya, Aniket, Saini, Rajpoot, Thakur.... all are bowling well and bowling quick.

 

Kohli and Kumble have transformed our fast bowling unit to a professional one of international quality. And it is very important because the really good teams are due to good wicket-taking bowlers.

Edited by express bowling
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Even considering the debacle in the finals, which I would say was more of a management error than from the bowlers,  I would still say our fast bowlers are better than Pakistan's and are quicker in pace too. Of course, the deluded Pakistanis would still call them trundlers and average, but the fact remains! 

If the coach and the captain choose the right fast bowlers, ours will always be better than Pakistans.

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Amir, Hasan, Junaid > Bhuvi, Bumrah, Umesh

Amir, Hasan, Junaid = Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami

 Amir visibly was more fuller in the finals and got rewarded. Simply don't understand why he bowled so defensively as late as even before the CT final. Amir in full rhythm (at his peak potential) is still slightly better than Bhuvi 2.0.  Hasan is better than bumrah and Umesh. He has got skills to bowl upfront, middle overs and isn't terribly bad at death overs either. Junaid is good. Even Ruman is good. 

        India has some upcoming pace bowlers with skills and pace. The only thing is keeping them out of limelight is our conservative approach to selection. Wouldn't have mind doing away with Bhuvi, Umesh for West Indies and go with completely new pace bowlers. Umesh is not inexpendable in ODIs and so we need to try new pacers. Create a healthy competition so that Bhuvi, Umesh and Shami don't take their place forgranted and work harder on their skills and/or fitness.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Amir, Hasan, Junaid > Bhuvi, Bumrah, Umesh

Amir, Hasan, Junaid = Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami

 

Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi  > Amir, Hasan, Wahab

 

Also, the Shami and Umesh pair has been the best in Asian conditions in test matches in the last 1 year, even if we consider other teams..... and this is important as we play 60% or more tests in Asia.

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5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi  > Amir, Hasan, Wahab

 

Also, the Shami and Umesh pair has been the best in Asian conditions in test matches in the last 1 year, even if we consider other teams..... and this is important as we play 60% or more tests in Asia.

Pakistan have dumped Wahab for better now. Don't think he is going to make a comeback soon.

Mostly talking from ODI perspective. In Tests equations may differ with Bumrah if tried being less effective. Bhuvi, Umesh and Shami would be best for time being. If anyone new is to be tried it should be Aniket, Avesh, Saini, Rajput etc but not bumrah.

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3 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Pakistan have dumped Wahab for better now. Don't think he is going to make a comeback soon.

Wahab was injured.  He has been a part of their first 11 in ODIs if fit.

 

3 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Mostly talking from ODI perspective. In Tests equations may differ with Bumrah if tried being less effective. Bhuvi, Umesh and Shami would be best for time being. If anyone new is to be tried it should be Aniket, Avesh, Saini, Rajput etc but not bumrah.

Don't agree. Bumrah needs to be tried and most probably will be tried in tests.

 

Moreover, Shami and Umesh have been our 2 test pacers in the last 12 months in India, if fit.

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Pakistani bowlers are miles superior .

Imdian bowlers dont pick up wickets . Those that do go for runs .

Amir , hasan and junaid all average under 30 and are bowling beautifully under an attacking captain . They have an able LOI replacement in Raees .

Amir and hasan especially can end up as greats .All neutrals rate pakistan's attack as being the better one .

Bhuvi who is indias premier seamer averages close to 40 .

India conceded 300 plus to two of the weaker batting lineups in the tournament . kedhar jadhav saved the indian attack against bangladesh

 

Indian bowlers dont bowl enough wicket taking deliveries , they just choke the opposition as a unit or look to get runouts . That's the reason they struggle to take 20 wickets in places like England .

Edited by the don
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2 minutes ago, the don said:

Pakistani bowlers are miles superior .

Imdian bowlers dont pick up wickets . Those that do go for runs .

Amir , hasan and junaid all average under 30 and are bowling beautifully under an attacking captain . They have an able LOI replacement in Raees .

Amir and hasan especially can end up as greats .All neutrals rate pakistan's attack as being the better one .

Bhuvi who is indias premier seamer averages close to 40 .

India conceded 300 plus to two of the weaker batting lineups in the tournament . kedhar jadhav saved the indian attack against bangladesh

 

Indian bowlers dont bowl enough wicket taking deliveries , they just choke the opposition as a unit or look to get runouts . That's the reason they struggle to take 20 wickets in places like England .

Watching 20 yr old matches can make people think the same way this gentleman is thinking.

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7 minutes ago, the don said:

Imdian bowlers dont pick up wickets . Those that do go for runs .

Bumrah  has 26 wickets from 16 ODIs   ER 4.9

 

Shami has 87 wickets from 47 ODIs  ER  5.5

 

Both wicket-takers as well as economical

 

Umesh has 91 wickets from 67 ODIs  ER  6

 

He is a wicket taker but expensive

 

You are deciding based on one ODI match....which is wrong as expected

 

7 minutes ago, the don said:

Amir , hasan and junaid all average under 30 

Shami averages 24.8

 

Bumrah averages 26.4

 

7 minutes ago, the don said:

Amir and hasan especially can end up as greats .All neutrals rate pakistan's attack as being the better one .

 

Have not heard from those neutrals yet.

 

Apart from the CT final.... the Indian bowling attack was being praised by all the neutrals including your own Rameez.... Hasan was the only Pakistani bowler being praised before the final..... your team needs to be consistent to earn the praise of neutrals

 

 

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9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bumrah  has 26 wickets from 16 ODIs   ER 4.9

 

Shami has 87 wickets from 47 ODIs  ER  5.5

 

Both wicket-takers as well as economical

 

Umesh has 91 wickets from 67 ODIs  ER  6

 

He is a wicket taker but expensive

 

You are deciding based on one ODI match....which is wrong as expected

 

Shami averages 24.8

 

Bumrah averages 26.4

 

Have not heard from those neutrals yet.

 

Apart from the CT final.... the Indian bowling attack was being praised by all the neutrals including your own Rameez.... Hasan was the only Pakistani bowler being praised before the final..... your team needs to be consistent to earn the praise of neutrals

 

 

The indian bowling is decent as a unit when they choke runs but they just do not produce wicket taking deliveries .

This isnt just based on 1 match . 

Hasan ali alone had 13 wickets in the tournament . Shami doesnt even play . He is a mythical being atm . Bumrah to me seems like a bottler . his reaction to the noball wasnt promising from lashing out at the police to bowling at the pads . He is a very good death bowler but does he offer anything more than that remains to be seen .

As for neutrals well ian chappell   viv richarfs , brian lara , nasser hussain and mike atherton in addition to all the local english pundits reckoned pakistn had the best attack in the tournament . Even saurav was in awe of the debutant rumman raees.

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17 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Bumrah  has 26 wickets from 16 ODIs   ER 4.9

 

Shami has 87 wickets from 47 ODIs  ER  5.5

 

Both wicket-takers as well as economical

 

Umesh has 91 wickets from 67 ODIs  ER  6

 

He is a wicket taker but expensive

 

You are deciding based on one ODI match....which is wrong as expected

 

Shami averages 24.8

 

Bumrah averages 26.4

 

Have not heard from those neutrals yet.

 

Apart from the CT final.... the Indian bowling attack was being praised by all the neutrals including your own Rameez.... Hasan was the only Pakistani bowler being praised before the final..... your team needs to be consistent to earn the praise of neutrals

 

 

Well after a CT win, Pakistan team is more than happy to not play to not expose their true colors. 

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55 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Watching 20 yr old matches can make people think the same way this gentleman is thinking.

Things we all learnt at the champions trophy :

1 : Wahab riaz is still the fastest bowler in the subcontinent but he will likely not play another limited overs match for pakistan .Might still play test matches for reverse swing .India can borrow him for ODi's.

2 : Indian bowlers dont produce wicket taking balls , they depend on choking the batsmen and waiting for soft dismissals or panic induced runouts . Hasan ali alone had 13 wickets in the tournament by contrast  . If  India wants to compete in the test series vs England in England they must produce a bowler of Sohail khan's caliber at least . 

 

3 : Amir and hasan ali both have the potential to be greats of the game . No other bowler in the subcontinent currently playing international cricket has that sort of potential .

4 : Bumrah currently is a mentally fragile death overs specialist but forms a decent defensive bowling partnership with bhuvi  ( the bowling attack cracks when the spinners are attacked like we saw against srilanka and pakistan because the pacers dont pick wickets ) .

5 : Rohit sharma fears Amir . ( I said the same when he was beaten 4 times in the 1st over of the opening game . Too bad sarfraz followed that up with spin ) .

 

Amir

Hasan ali 

Junaid 

Raees 

Is possibly the best limited overs pace attack in the world let alone Asia .

Mustafiz , bhuvi and Malinga have fallen way behind although bhuvi has improved from the last time i saw him. But he still barely picks up a wicket per game.

 

 

 

Edited by the don
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1 hour ago, the don said:

The indian bowling is decent as a unit when they choke runs but they just do not produce wicket taking deliveries .

This isnt just based on 1 match . 

The Indian team has won the last 7 test series in a row including 2 away series .... that does not happen if we did not have wicket taking.bowlers.

Quote

. Shami doesnt even play . He is a mythical being atm .

Shami has played 10 test matches in the last 12 months and averages 26 in this period..... he is mythical only to people who do not follow Indian cricket.

Quote

Bumrah to me seems like a bottler . his reaction to the noball wasnt promising from lashing out at the police to bowling at the pads . He is a very good death bowler but does he offer anything more than that remains to be seen .

 

Bumrah has taken 26 wickets from 16 ODIs and 33 wickets from 24 T20Is.... that is a sign of a wicket-taker.

Anyone who has seen him in FC knows how aggressive a bowler he is in terms of the areas he bowls.

Edited by express bowling
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6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The Indian team won the last 7 test series in a row including 2 away series .... that does not happen if we did not have wicket taking.bowlers.

Shami has played 10 test matches in the last 12 months and averages 26 in this period..... he is mythical only to people who do not follow Indian cricket.

Bumrah has taken 26 wickets from 16 ODIs and 33 wickets from 24 T20Is.... that is a sign of a wicket-taker.

anyone who has seen him in FC know how aggressive a bowler he is in terms of the areas he bowls.

Havent seen bumrah in fc so will reserve judgement but i have not seen him bowl a test match length  . He bowls either too full or too short but as i said havent seem him play much at all . 

I still will stick my neck out and say that Amir and Hasan  easily have the most potential out of all and if everything goes right should easily have the best careers.

Edited by the don
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4 minutes ago, the don said:

Things we all learnt at the champions trophy :

1 : Wahab riaz is still the fastest bowler in the subcontinent but he will likely not play another limited overs match for pakistan .Might still play test matches for reverse swing .India can borrow him for ODi's.

2 : Indian bowlers dont produce wicket taking balls , they depend on choking the batsmen and waiting for soft dismissals or panic induced runouts . Hasan ali alone had 13 wickets in the tournament by contrast  . If  they want to compete in the test series vs England in England they must produce a bowler of Sohail khan's caliber at least . 

 

3 : Amir and hasan ali both have the potential to be greats of the game . No other bowler in the subcontinent currently playing international cricket has that sort of potential .

4 : Bumrah currently is a mentally fragile death overs specialist but forms a decent defensive bowling partnership with bhuvi  ( the bowling attack cracks when the spinners are attacked like we saw against srilanka and pakistan because the pacers dont pick wickets ) .

5 : Rohit sharma fears Amir . ( I said the same when he was beaten 4 times in the 1st over of the opening game . Too bad sarfraz followed that up with spin ) .

 

Amir

Hasan ali 

Junaid 

Raees 

Is possibly the best limited overs pace attack in the world let alone Asia .

Mustafiz , bhuvi and Malinga have fallen way behind although bhuvi has improved from the last time i saw him. But he still barely picks up a wicket per game.

 

 

 

1) No thanks. India has similar bowler in Aron. Fast and spray gun. :giggle:

2)Don't worry. India has more than decent bowlers to compete even win against England in England. Bhuvi alone is sufficient. :laugh:

3) Amir and Hasan are very good but haven't shown anything to say they will end up as greats.

4)Agreed to an extent. Bumrah is just a death over bowler. He has picked up most wickets in ODIs based on death bowling skills only. But hey death bowling is very vital to ODIs andit has significant importance. So in partnership with other bowlers he is a lethal bowler in LOI.

5) Rohit Sharma is an idiot. He overestimates himself and never seem to accept his limitations. Talent tag gives wings to his ego. But let it be known he doesn't fear Amir. :giggle:

In fact its the opposite. Rohit views Amir as nothing special. :laugh:

 

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4 minutes ago, the don said:

Havent seen bumrah in fc so will reserve judgement but i have not seen him.bowl a test match length . He bowls either too full or too short but as i said havent seem him play much . 

I still will stick my neck out and say that Amir and Hasan  easily have the most potential out of all and if everything goes right should easily have the best careers.

Hasan has potential for sure. I like him. But not so sure about Amir.... he has issues regarding focus and motivation....blows hot and cold.

 

I genuinely think that Shami and Bumrah can have top international careers too....because they combine bowling ability with hunger for success.

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