Hardik Pandya is a better bowler in Limited Overs than Ben Stokes

[sandeep]

Yes.  I am saying it.  Stokes is a trundler who can tonk the ball.  Pandya is quicker than Stokes.  But Stokes is considered a better allrounder than Pandya due to safedi ki chamkar.  And because Stokes has had opportunities in test cricket while Pandya hasn't.  

 

 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Pandya needs to be backed.

[Bleed-Blue]

Stokes a Trundler

[chewy]

A flop IPL 2016 for Pandya indicates he has a long way to go after a good first IPL (last year), especially his batting needs to improve a lot more. 

Stokes to his credit has a 250 v SA in SA.

[velu]

pandya has got a good quick bouncer ..

problem with him is that he bowls lots of short pitch balls 

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, velu said:

pandya has got a good quick bouncer ..

problem with him is that he bowls lots of short pitch balls 

Yeah he's a one trick pony with the ball at the moment.  But there's enough raw ability there that he can easily match Stokes bowling output with the white ball.  His bowling stats are far better than Stokes's in T20s.   

 

People mix up formats too much.  Outside of Tests, they are in the same bucket as players.  

[express bowling]

To me, a good all-rounder is someone who would get into the team either as a pure batsman or as a pure bowler and the other discipline is  additional.  Like Sobers, Kapil, Imran, Hadlee, Botham, Pollock, Kallis, Ashwin  etc.

 

Ben Stokes would not get in either the test or ODI teams either as a pure batsman or as a pure bowler.  He has bad or mediocre averages in everything.

 

He can be used in the team only in combination with another such player like Moin Ali, who is also a bits and pieces utility player.

 

If Moin were a pure bowler, like say Ashley Giles, Stokes at 6 would make the batting weak, as he is not consistent enough for a top order batter.  And he would never make it to the team as a bowling all-rounder.

 

Woakes has the potential to be a proper test all-rounder as he can make it to the team as a pure bowler.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Hardik Pandya has  loads of potential as an all-rounder but he needs to play a lot more  FC, List A and T20s.   His game is not fully developed yet.

 

His primary discipline as of now is as a lower-middle order big hitting batsman in ODIs and T20s. I would like him to develop into a decent test quality batsman too.....but that would take quit a bit of time and hard work.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by express bowling

[sandeep]

Bhai, you cannot go online and order that mythical perfect allrounder who makes the team purely on one side of the ball, from Amazon.  You have to maximize the resources that the team has.  

 

Reality is that Pandya is the best seam-bowling allrounder prospect India has.  We need to groom him, and then use him wisely to the best benefit of the team.  Smart guy that he is, Rahul Dravid has been using him consistently as the 3rd seamer in the 'A' series down under.  And he's done OK.  

 

Next ODI World Cup is in England.  Look at how England are building their team, and their ODI wickets.  We are not going to win with 6+5 in 2019.  We will need Chahal and Pandya to be successful international players with multiple tricks up their sleeve, to be contenders.  

[express bowling]

18 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Bhai, you cannot go online and order that mythical perfect allrounder who makes the team purely on one side of the ball, from Amazon.  You have to maximize the resources that the team has.  

 

 

There have been many many proper all-rounders in ODIs and quite a few in tests, like the ones  I listed.   Nothing mythical about them.

 

Bits and pieces players never last long in a team.

 

Pandya needs to make one discipline his strong suit.

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by express bowling

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

There have been many many proper all-rounders in ODIs and quite a few in tests, like the one I listed.   Nothing mythical about them.

 

Bits and pieces players never last long in a team.

 

Pandya needs to make one discipline his strong suit.

 

Name the Indian allrounders please.  Outside of Kapil Dev, the best we could manage was that imported Trinidadian Robin Singh.  Unless you count Laxmi Ratan Shukla - the great brown lukdya from Bengal who never was.

 

 

[express bowling]

14 hours ago, sandeep said:

Name the Indian allrounders please.  Outside of Kapil Dev, the best we could manage was that imported Trinidadian Robin Singh.  Unless you count Laxmi Ratan Shukla - the great brown lukdya from Bengal who never was.

 

 

Mankad, Kapil, Shastri,  Prabhakar, Irfan Pathan, Ashwin

 

Name the  bits and pieces  cricketers who have lasted in cricket  ?

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by express bowling

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Mankad, Kapil, Shastri,  Prabhakar, Ashwin

 

Name the  bits and pieces  cricketers who have lasted in cricket  ?

 

 

Shastri early in his career was a bowler who batted and slowly mutated into the opposite.  Prabhakar an allrounder is a massive reach.  He was never good enough with the bat.  Ash is not a white ball allrounder, no matter how you slice it.  Mankad is 5 generations ago.  

 

None of these guys apart from Kapil or Mankad would meet your self-proscribed standards for allrounders at various points of their international careers.  

[express bowling]

14 hours ago, sandeep said:

Shastri early in his career was a bowler who batted and slowly mutated into the opposite.  Prabhakar an allrounder is a massive reach.  He was never good enough with the bat.  Ash is not a white ball allrounder, no matter how you slice it.  Mankad is 5 generations ago.  

 

None of these guys apart from Kapil or Mankad would meet your self-proscribed standards for allrounders at various points of their international careers.  

Ravi Shastri became a proper batsman, who opened quite a bit in test matches,  and was good at handling pace and bounce in away tours like the West Indies.  He also bowled regularly.  That definitely makes him an all-rounder.  His specialty was batting for a long time against genuine pace and taking the shine off the ball.

 

Manoj Prabhakar was a front-line bowler, considered as a great talent of swing bowling. He also averages 32  as a batsman in test matches and has opened the inning too. 

 

Ashwin is a test all-rounder,,,which is far more difficult to find. He may also become a better ODI batsman after his new-found confidence in the WI.

 

I said that a proper all-rounder is one who can make it to the team as either a batsman or a bowler and is decent in the other discipline too.

All these 6  names match that criterion.

 

My point is very simple....if a player is neither a proper batsman  nor a proper bowler, like Binny.......he won't last long.  Nor does he help the team for any length of time.

 

England has always been enamored by  bits and pieces cricketers but how many ODI World Cups have they won  ?  0    ...... How many big tournaments have they won ?   Much less than us.

 

In ODIs, it is better to have proper batsmen who can bowl a bit...like Yuvraj, Sehwag, Ganguly, Amarnath  etc.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by express bowling

[moniker]

Name the Indian allrounders please.  Outside of Kapil Dev, the best we could manage was that imported Trinidadian Robin Singh.  Unless you count Laxmi Ratan Shukla - the great brown lukdya from Bengal who never was.

 

 

Mankad, Kapil, Shastri,  Prabhakar, Ashwin

 

Name the  bits and pieces  cricketers who have lasted in cricket  ?

 

 

Irfan Khan Pathan

[Texan]

To me, Pandya looks way superior than any of the jokers we have tried as medium pace allrounders in the recent past such as Bunny and Rishi. One poor IPL and he got kicked out. I believe he deserves a longer run in the team. 

[Ultimate_Game]

Disagree. The main problem with Pandya is he's too predictable. He doesn't vary his pace or his length. Almost all his deliveries are short of length and most of the batsmen can park themselves on backfoot waiting for the predictable short delivery. Stokes on the other hand varies his pace and length. Once Pandya starts hitting that fuller length more frequently he has the potential to be a very useful allrounder for India, especially away from the subcontinent.

[nevada]

1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Disagree. The main problem with Pandya is he's too predictable. He doesn't vary his pace or his length. Almost all his deliveries are short of length and most of the batsmen can park themselves on backfoot waiting for the predictable short delivery. Stokes on the other hand varies his pace and length. Once Pandya starts hitting that fuller length more frequently he has the potential to be a very useful allrounder for India, especially away from the subcontinent.

This is where he needs a support system and coaching help to fine tune his bowling. Raw talent and potential is there but it needs polishing.

[rkt.india]

he has a long way to go.

[express bowling]

Pandya is a batting all-rounder and I want him to develop his batting further in FC and List A games.  I remember a BPXI game when he fought it out and scored almost 50 against SA and that is no mean feat against Steyn, Morkel and Philander.

 

He needs to be able to get in the team as a batsman who can bowl regularly.   He has the ability  but needs a lot of net and match practice.

 

I am really hoping that he does well as a batsman in the 4 day " Unofficial tests " in this A tour.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2016 by express bowling