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Hardik Pandya : The test allrounder


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4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

You said he isn't established in ODIs so I brought pujara, David and Ganguly who played tests before ODIs too. Regarding their domestic cricket records, David and pujara were good. Ganguly was just average. Regarding pandya's domestic record, we are not looking for a batsman who averages 50 or a bowler who averages 25. We are looking at an alrounder who can average 35 with bat and 35 with with the ball. Pandya can offer us that option especially overseas.

Not sure what you are trying to arrive at; pandya first class avg with bat is 28, you expect him to avg 35 overseas. Jaddu who avg 40+ in 1st class has a few triple hundreds against his name is seen hopping and mindless swinging overseas in test cricket. I agree with you that we need pandya to succeed in test cricket given his unique skillset as an indian cricketer; where we differ is you think he is ready for test cricket and should be in team; i think he is neither ready nor has he given a reason why he should be in test squad.

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37 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

News filtering in that Pandya might get his test cap at Rajkot. While there is little doubt that Pandya is a rare commodity in India cricket, and promises a lot going forward, handing him a place in test XI is not right at the moment. There are two good enough all rounders in Ashwin and Jadeja, so I hope the team sticks to specialists.

This thread keeps going in circles.  Pandya brings a BOGO option - Ek Gujju Lukdya ke saath ek balding bhaiyaji (Mishra) free, hence the good chances for his debut.  

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1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

News filtering in that Pandya might get his test cap at Rajkot. While there is little doubt that Pandya is a rare commodity in India cricket, and promises a lot going forward, handing him a place in test XI is not right at the moment. There are two good enough all rounders in Ashwin and Jadeja, so I hope the team sticks to specialists.

well....so many countries create an all-rounder as they are rarely available ready-made...

 

Ex:

 

Mitchell Marsh is a very ordinary player. But Australia sticking to him and trying to make all-rounder out of him

 

Flintoff - When he made a debut, he was extremely average. England have invested in him and reaped good benefits

 

Stokes - he was average as well. But now, he is coming good.

 

and many more.....

 

most of the all-rounders are not ready-made...India is trying it's luck...lets see, if this experiment will work...

 

 

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Kumble is the man.  Full trust on him to make the right call on what's the best choice for Team India @ Rajkot.  

 

Quote

"Everyone is available for selection," he said. "With Hardik being part of the squad, we have more options. This is the first Test in Rajkot, it's a new stadium - we've played one-day and T20 cricket here, but in a Test, we don't know how the wicket is going to be. The looks of it, it looks a good surface. We still have a couple of days, so we'll look at all the combinations."

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-england-2016-17/content/story/1064979.html

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15 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Not sure what you are trying to arrive at; pandya first class avg with bat is 28, you expect him to avg 35 overseas. Jaddu who avg 40+ in 1st class has a few triple hundreds against his name is seen hopping and mindless swinging overseas in test cricket. I agree with you that we need pandya to succeed in test cricket given his unique skillset as an indian cricketer; where we differ is you think he is ready for test cricket and should be in team; i think he is neither ready nor has he given a reason why he should be in test squad.

Michael Clarke when played test cricket had averaged 36 in FC cricket. Their selectors had ignored several 50+ domestic batsmen for him. I am not saying Pandya can be as good as Clarke but that is just an example. Was SRT ready for test cricket when he was selected? Obviously not. He himself admitted it. Pandya has averaged low because he batted in lower order for the most part.

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37 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Where? All I remember is an interview of Sachin where Tom Alter asked him if was ready to face Marshall and Ambrose for the 1988-89 tour of Windies. Sachin was adamant that he was ready. Wasn't selected though. 

He had said that in his biography.

 

"It was baptism by fire. So much so that after my very first innings in Test cricket, during which I was all at sea against Wasim and Waqar, I began to doubt my ability to bat and question whether I was ever going to be good enough to play at international level," Tendulkar writes in the book. 

Edited by rkt.india
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There may be two Indian Test debuts on Wednesday. One is the venue - Rajkot. The other could be Hardik Pandya or Karun Nair. Both men spent a lot of time in the nets three days before the series-opener against England.

 

Pandya, an allrounder, was bowling for the most part. His presence in the squad was a bit of a surprise. It was his first Test call-up and starkly still, he has played only 16 first-class matches over the past three years. His ability to clock 140kph and a mindset made stronger by his time with the India A team under the supervision of Rahul Dravid has given him a leg-up. Most of the shots he played at training as a pleasant-ish morning gave way into afternoon heat were drives along the ground.

 

Karun, though, is the better batsman. He made back-to-back-to-back centuries in his maiden first-class season to help Karnataka win the Ranji Trophy title in 2013-14. He averages more than 52 in first-class cricket, and has started the current season with scores of 74, 54*, 53 and 145.

 

Now, he was receiving throwdowns from one of Karnataka's greatest cricketers and the current India coach Anil Kumble and when that was done, he faced up to R Ashwin for a little while. Nair was among the last to leave after practice.

The choice, then, may hinge on what type of pitch is provided for the first Test. If it turns early, R Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja will bet on themselves to take care of England's batsmen before they cause too much trouble and India might ponder batting reinforcement to make sure the opposition struggles to return the favour. Nair probably edges ahead in this scenario.

 

If not - if it is a pitch where a batsman has to be prised out, then having an allrounder like Pandya becomes a huge asset. He can give the main bowlers a break, which may prove vital regardless of conditions underfoot. The heat in Rajkot can be quite sapping and temperatures are expected to be in the mid-30s during the Test.

 

"Whether it is a short glimpse in T20s or even in the [New Zealand] one-dayers when he bowled in Dharamsala and batted in Delhi, we could see that he is a quality player and that's why we have backed him to get him into the Test squad because we understand the importance of an allrounder, the importance of a fifth bowler," Kumble said of Pandya. "If someone can bowl 140 and give you the option of batting really well lower down the order, that's a great option to have. So we are really looking forward to seeing how Hardik develops.

 

"Karun is certainly someone we have kept a close eye on and backed him for all the things he has done in domestic cricket. There was a little bit of talk of him not performing for India A in Australia but what we are looking at is consistency and he has done all the hard work and that's why he was a part of the [squad for the Tests against New Zealand] as well and since then he has gone into Ranji Trophy and got more runs, got hundreds, and it's opened an opportunity for Karun."

 

Kumble said India hadn't decided on their combination yet.

"Everyone is available for selection," he said. "With Hardik being part of the squad, we have more options. This is the first Test in Rajkot, it's a new stadium - we've played one-day and T20 cricket here, but in a Test, we don't know how the wicket is going to be. The looks of it, it looks a good surface. We still have a couple of days, so we'll look at all the combinations."

 

That Pandya and Nair are in with a chance of getting an India cap is also, in part, due to several injuries. KL Rahul, who began the 13-Test-long Indian season as first-choice opener has hamstring trouble, Shikhar Dhawan broke his thumb in the Kolkata Test against New Zealand, and Rohit Sharma will head to London next week for treatment on his thigh and may well miss the ODIs against England.

 

"I know exactly what goes through a player's mind when he's injured and watching the game and somebody else is playing," Kumble said. "Of course, all of us want the team to do well and the player who's replaced also to do well. But having said that, it's important to keep everyone in the loop.

 

"What is most important for a coach to communicate to them is not to look at coming back quickly because that's not going to help that particular individual and also it might let the team down. So it's important that the injured players come back when they feel 100% right."

With respect to that, the team management has asked anyone returning from injury to play a domestic match before an international one. It was for this reason that Bhuvneshwar Kumar - who has regained full fitness after hurting his hamstring at the start of October - wasn't picked for the first two Tests of this series. He can return once he proves himself match-ready.

"That's the kind of protocols we have set," Kumble said. "So if someone's injured, he goes back and plays domestic cricket, if there is domestic competition happening, so that he plays under pressure and then comes in, unless there is an emergency or a case-to-case basis we may change that."

 

Kumble still sympathised with those forced onto the bench. "It's unfortunate that someone like KL Rahul who has batted brilliantly since the time he has made his international debut in all the three formats is missing out. But we are hoping that he comes back soon. So is Bhuvi. So is Shikhar. Unfortunate that he still hasn't recovered. Big blow for Rohit, unfortunately the timing of his injury wasn't ideal for him. He was really doing well in the Test format."

 

Source espncricinfo

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4 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Yeah, that's not really an admission he wasn't ready, just a momentary doubt.

I just copied an excerpt from his book. He had an interview probably with Harsha and in that, he had admitted that after this Pak tour, he realized he wasn't ready for international cricket . He had not faced bowling of such pace in domestic cricket. 

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Keep Pandya for overseas tours and tell him to improve his bowling in the mean time. He'll come in handy with 6+5 combination where we need to pick 4 fast bowlers + a spinner. Bowling him on these dust bowls will do him no good. I hope they go with Nair, with him batting at 4 and Kohli and Rahane coming in at 5 and 6 respectively. 

 

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7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I just copied an excerpt from his book. He had an interview probably with Harsha and in that, he had admitted that after this Pak tour, he realized he wasn't ready for international cricket . He had not faced bowling of such pace in domestic cricket. 

That would not have happened in 10 more years of domestic cricket! So your point? 

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Former India captain Kapil Dev on Monday advised promising all-rounder Hardik Pandya to put his mind in the right direction if he has to excel in cricket's longest format.

 

"I think he should be better than , why only me. The next generation have to be better than the previous one, he has all the ability and talent, he just has to put his mind. If you ask, does he have the ability, I think he has,".

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9 hours ago, SLICKR392 said:

Attitude reminds me of the old Kohli, although of what I've seen thus far of him is he isn't that skilled as people make him out to be. May be after he ages up a little in the head.

Kohli was on his way to be a  world beater when he had that attitude...once he reached that,he became more mature. Pandya has the attitude without amounting for Zilch so far in his brief career......I see that attitude to some extent in KL Rahul as well and he has so far also shown the tools that he is on his way to be a superstar.

 

Only thing that has going for Pandya right now that...he is apparently a "big hitter" with great batting potential and someone who can bowl in 135-140K regularly with apparently great "bowling potential".....Only thing I have seen in him so far which I can say with total conviction is that he is a world class fielder.

Edited by maniac
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Former Indian cricketer, VVS Laxman believes that Test skipper Virat Kohli should opt for all-rounder Hardik Pandya in the playing eleven for the series opener against England at Rajkot which begins on Wednesday.

 

Pandya’s selection would allow the Indian side to play three spinners with Amit Mishra joining Ravichandran Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja in the line-up.

 

While Pandya’s selection in the Test side raised a few eyebrows, Laxman feels that the Baroda cricketer’s inclusion will add balance to the team considering his hard-hitting abilities with the bat. 

I think that (Pandya with new ball) can be an option and that's one of the reasons that he has been drafted into the team. With Hardik, he is bowling at more than 140 kmph now, he is now more consistent in his line and length. He can also give those 10 or 15 overs that the other fast bowlers can give. Hardik will definitely be my choice," said Laxman.

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8 hours ago, maniac said:

Kohli was on his way to be a  world beater when he had that attitude...once he reached that,he became more mature. Pandya has the attitude without amounting for Zilch so far in his brief career......I see that attitude to some extent in KL Rahul as well and he has so far also shown the tools that he is on his way to be a superstar.

 

Only thing that has going for Pandya right now that...he is apparently a "big hitter" with great batting potential and someone who can bowl in 135-140K regularly with apparently great "bowling potential".....Only thing I have seen in him so far which I can say with total conviction is that he is a world class fielder.

Yeah, same Kohli who was dropped after 15 ODIs and whose performance in his debut test series was worse than Raina and was dropped after that.

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19 hours ago, Lannister said:

Keep Pandya for overseas tours and tell him to improve his bowling in the mean time. He'll come in handy with 6+5 combination where we need to pick 4 fast bowlers + a spinner. Bowling him on these dust bowls will do him no good. I hope they go with Nair, with him batting at 4 and Kohli and Rahane coming in at 5 and 6 respectively. 

 

You just can't go overseas and pick your players and expect them to deliver overseas. This is the biggest reason our pacers never become international class after showing promise.

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Hardik Pandya started off as a batsman who could bowl.  

 

But, from the last A tour to Australia, we saw Pandya's bowling improve a lot.  He developed a stock delivery and performed consistently with the ball  in every match on that tour.  With the bat, he played a gem a  knock of 79 in an unofficial test but failed in almost every other match of that tour.  After that, while playing ODIs for India, we saw the same thing happen. He opened the bowling for India in 3 matches but batted at No.8 with Axar coming in before him.

 

So, it seems that he is being used by the teams as a bowler who can bat, based on his current ability and form.  

 

It is true that a  player must be picked as either a bowler or a batsman primarily and the other skill should be additional.  If we had pacers with low averages below 27  or 25 then it would have been difficult to include Pandya as a bowler. BUT, most of our pacers have averages between 33 and 36....so it is possible to play Pandya as a proper pacer as the competition is not that high.

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

You just can't go overseas and pick your players and expect them to deliver overseas. This is the biggest reason our pacers never become international class after showing promise.

With the amount of games they play each year, be it domestics, IPL, International matches, they should atleast be capable of playing out basics. Overseas wickets are much more easy on fast bowlers than the dust bowls we see over here. 

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5 minutes ago, Lannister said:

With the amount of games they play each year, be it domestics, IPL, International matches, they should atleast be capable of playing out basics. Overseas wickets are much more easy on fast bowlers than the dust bowls we see over here. 

No, it does not work like that. It is like expecting spinners from Aus, England, SA to pick a lot of wickets just  because pitches in India help them. Bowling overseas is completely game altogether than in India. You are not going to develop a habit of bowling a lot of overs with consistency if you are sitting half the time on the bench. How much you bowling in ODIs and T20s are not related to test cricket performance because nature of cricket is different in all 3 formats.

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