Should Rishabh Pant be fast-tracked into the Indian Test team?

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, TNAmarkFrmIndia said:

Should test him on some 'A' tours overseas before blooding him in.

 

Surprised maniac is advocating for him since he hates Kedar Jadhav for the very reason that he (allegedly) can't play pace, even when he has proved himself on the 'A' tour of Australia.

I don't hate Jadhav...in fact I think deserved his shot based on consistent domestic performances.

 

Now Aussie test pitches these days are a joke leave alone A Tour pitches....A Tour of any country be it India(Dustbowls) ,Eng and Nzl(Green tops),SA and Aus(bouncy pitches) will not give out pitches that will be used in actual test matches....there is a reason Shikhar Dhawan can score 250+ in a List A or Naman Ojha can hit 200's for fun or even Umesh Yadav  can hit a 100 with the bat....so won't go by that.

 

Playing domestics for long enough makes the cricketers who are the good and smart ones especially the likes of Jadhav etc develop % cricket.block or dab to 3rd man against genuine world class pacers and then go crazy against the spinners and part timers.

 

I will bet right now that someone like Jadhav will not able to get the likes of Starc,Woakes,Wood,Milne etc off the square in an international game. I never even saw him do that in IPL either.

 

Chand was a good example of the gulf in talent required at various levels....leave alone Steyn and Lee who are express pace and made a total bunny of him,he couldn't even play Kallis who is a world class bowler in his own right.

 

Pant was smacking 140+ bowlers in IPL,Has struck a purple patch in domestics...I think he is ready...A Tours and other domestic contests  etc are just going to be a waste of time

[maniac]

Dhoni is a joke in T20......cmon atleast Rishabh needs to get into the T20 squad....Pant,Samson...Dhoni should be way down the pecking order.

Odi's Dhoni can play the sheet anchor of role and should slowly be phased out.

 

This is make or break time folks!!!

 

Indian cricket needs to move forward...Dhoni was a good race horse but the race horse is sick and the gangrene is spreading...take it behind the barn and click click Boom

[fineleg]

Send Rishabh Pant on India A-tours - that will be valuable experience before getting into National team.

[cric_fan]

When I watched him at the U19 WC..his style reminded me of Yuvraj. Yet another batting prodigy/gem unearthed for India. Send some over the border pls.

[sandeep]

Rishabh Pant - the new Unmukt Chand.  The next "sure thing" to come out of a u-19 team.  For every Virat Kohli, there are the unmukt chands, the Reetinder Sodhis who fizzle out on the big stage.  

 

But that won't fans with agendas from pant-gasming over the next big hype.  

[sandeep]

Should Rishabh Pant be made the next PM after Modi?  Shades of a young Lala Lajpat Rai in him, I say he's ready or he's going to be, soon.  

[TNAmarkFrmIndia]

3 hours ago, maniac said:

I don't hate Jadhav...in fact I think deserved his shot based on consistent domestic performances.

 

Now Aussie test pitches these days are a joke leave alone A Tour pitches....A Tour of any country be it India(Dustbowls) ,Eng and Nzl(Green tops),SA and Aus(bouncy pitches) will not give out pitches that will be used in actual test matches....there is a reason Shikhar Dhawan can score 250+ in a List A or Naman Ojha can hit 200's for fun or even Umesh Yadav  can hit a 100 with the bat....so won't go by that.

 

Playing domestics for long enough makes the cricketers who are the good and smart ones especially the likes of Jadhav etc develop % cricket.block or dab to 3rd man against genuine world class pacers and then go crazy against the spinners and part timers.

 

I will bet right now that someone like Jadhav will not able to get the likes of Starc,Woakes,Wood,Milne etc off the square in an international game. I never even saw him do that in IPL either.

 

Chand was a good example of the gulf in talent required at various levels....leave alone Steyn and Lee who are express pace and made a total bunny of him,he couldn't even play Kallis who is a world class bowler in his own right.

 

Pant was smacking 140+ bowlers in IPL,Has struck a purple patch in domestics...I think he is ready...A Tours and other domestic contests  etc are just going to be a waste of time

Jadhav was whacking New Zealand 'A' quicks like Adam Milne and Matt Henry around on their tour of India. As for the pitches, they're getting flatter all around the world. Not sure how IPL is a measure of talent and 'A' tours aren't. 'A' tours have 140+ bowlers playing in them, and it's not like IPL has the most challenging pitches in the world.

[Muloghonto]

No.

Let the guy complete one FC season before we start hyping him. Plenty of people have had '1 and bust' start to their FC careers.

 

[maniac]

38 minutes ago, TNAmarkFrmIndia said:

Jadhav was whacking New Zealand 'A' quicks like Adam Milne and Matt Henry around on their tour of India. As for the pitches, they're getting flatter all around the world. Not sure how IPL is a measure of talent and 'A' tours aren't. 'A' tours have 140+ bowlers playing in them, and it's not like IPL has the most challenging pitches in the world.

I won't use IPL as a benchmark for test cricket for obvious reasons but the quality of bowling in the IPL is way superior to A tours and add to that the pressure and the crowds. How many such innings does Yadav has where he has whacked 150+ bowlers? All I have seen of him in the international arena is playing % cricket....Sorry but if your go to shots against pace is dab to thirdman and block anything out of your zone..you don't have the tools for international cricket and that's all I have seen of Jadhav in international cricket.

 

Shikhar Dhawan scored 248 in South Africa A...Do you think Dhawan can score a 100 let alone 248 in South Africa against a full strength South African team in a ODI game.

 

You either have it or you don't.....Jadhav doesn't have age on his side and on top of that he doesn't tick any boxes that India needs in the LOI format right now and there are better LOI batsman than him.

 

Time to Thank him for his service and let him collect his IPL pay cheques and domestic pension.

 

I am not saying A Tours are completely useless either....it tests a player's temperament for sure...Also I would rate bowling performances in A team tours and yes players who do well in A Tours should be considered but no way is A Tour much superior to the domestics or even the IPL. People seem to think A Tours are some kind of benchmark...they are not especially for batsmen.

 

Jadhav is a % cricketer at best and yes he might do well against Srilanka,WI or even Newzealand at home in a low stakes encounter but he is not the one for the long run...it is so clear to see...cmon if Jadhav is the future of the Indian side either we have serious lack of talent or serious errors on betting on the "lambi race ka ghoda" 

[maniac]

25 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

No.

Let the guy complete one FC season before we start hyping him. Plenty of people have had '1 and bust' start to their FC careers.

 

Didn't Sachin debut within the first year of his FC Debut?

 

Pant has played 7 FC games and averages 90 with 4 100's and a S/R of 100+

 

On Top of that he has played a full season of IPL something that Sachin did not have the liberty of in his days where you get exposure to world class coaching,world class bowling and your weakness are assessed much earlier...so there is definitely a head start there.

 

So what is harm in taking a punt on someone who has emerged as a prodigy and struck a purple patch at the moment...clearly the greatest gamble of all time was inducting Sachin at 16...no one thought he was too raw...I am sure there were domestic workhorses who were having more consistent performances year after year during his time?

 

We are seeing a world class product and no harm pulling the trigger.

 

Also time and need of the hour,the guy is a wicket kepper and with Dhoni being on the down and Saha not having too many years left....worth the gamble.

Edited November 8, 2016 by maniac

[kruiser]

15 minutes ago, maniac said:

I won't use IPL as a benchmark for test cricket for obvious reasons but the quality of bowling in the IPL is way superior to A tours and add to that the pressure and the crowds. How many such innings does Yadav has where he has whacked 150+ bowlers? All I have seen of him in the international arena is playing % cricket....Sorry but if your go to shots against pace is dab to thirdman and block anything out of your zone..you don't have the tools for international cricket and that's all I have seen of Jadhav in international cricket.

 

Shikhar Dhawan scored 248 in South Africa A...Do you think Dhawan can score a 100 let alone 248 in South Africa against a full strength South African team in a ODI game.

 

You either have it or you don't.....Jadhav doesn't have age on his side and on top of that he doesn't tick any boxes that India needs in the LOI format right now and there are better LOI batsman than him.

 

Time to Thank him for his service and let him collect his IPL pay cheques and domestic pension.

 

I am not saying A Tours are completely useless either....it tests a player's temperament for sure...Also I would rate bowling performances in A team tours and yes players who do well in A Tours should be considered but no way is A Tour much superior to the domestics or even the IPL. People seem to think A Tours are some kind of benchmark...they are not especially for batsmen.

 

Jadhav is a % cricketer at best and yes he might do well against Srilanka,WI or even Newzealand at home in a low stakes encounter but he is not the one for the long run...it is so clear to see...cmon if Jadhav is the future of the Indian side either we have serious lack of talent or serious errors on betting on the "lambi race ka ghoda" 

please tell me again, why is percentage cricket bad? as long as you are making runs and not wasting balls, isnt that what matters? As per your post, good teams have 150+ bowlers and without any evidence to the contrary, you think that Jadhav will fail against them. he might, but I havent seen any evidence of that in the games he has played so far.  Actually i think only intelligent batsmen can play % cricket and then punish the bad balls. 

If anything, in the batting clips I have seen of Pant, he has been predominantly hitting the short balls over the infield on leg side. Again, he may have a more complete game, but we wont know unless he plays in more list A and First class matches. 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

Didn't Sachin debut within the first year of his FC Debut?

 

Pant has played 7 FC games and averages 90 with 4 100's and a S/R of 100+

 

On Top of that he has played a full season of IPL something that Sachin did not have the liberty of in his days where you get exposure to world class coaching,world class bowling and your weakness are assessed much earlier...so there is definitely a head start there.

 

So what is harm in taking a punt on someone who has emerged as a prodigy and struck a purple patch at the moment...clearly the greatest gamble of all time was inducting Sachin at 16...no one thought he was too raw...I am sure there were domestic workhorses who were having more consistent performances year after year during his time?

 

We are seeing a world class product and no harm pulling the trigger.

 

Also time and need of the hour,the guy is a wicket kepper and with Dhoni being on the down and Saha not having too many years left....worth the gamble.

Sachin was 15. What 15 year old plays U-19s, let alone FC cricket and dominates ? 

Sachin got in on the basis of his 'generational talent' status. If we find a 15 year old averaging 70+ in his first 9 FC games, i have no problem fast tracking them. 

Pant would not be the first guy to light up first class cricket as a 19 year old and bust. Sachin was the first and to my knowledge, the ONLY guy to light up FC cricket as a 15 year old. 

If guy is a wicketkeeper, he needs even more time to hone his wicketkeeping skills. I don't see the glaring need of a wicketkeeper in any format for India. Sure, our wicketkeepers could bat a bit better in all formats currently, but wicketkeeping skills are rarely,if ever, international quality before the subject is 21-22 years old. Even for ATG keepers like Boucher, Healy, etc. they were in their early-mid 20s before they were deemed good enough, so i don't see the point in rushing Rishabh.

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Not sure about ODi but shud be given a chance in T20

Dhawan, Rohit , rahul are already there in ODi. 

[maniac]

15 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Sachin was 15. What 15 year old plays U-19s, let alone FC cricket and dominates ? 

Sachin got in on the basis of his 'generational talent' status. If we find a 15 year old averaging 70+ in his first 9 FC games, i have no problem fast tracking them. 

Pant would not be the first guy to light up first class cricket as a 19 year old and bust. Sachin was the first and to my knowledge, the ONLY guy to light up FC cricket as a 15 year old. 

If guy is a wicketkeeper, he needs even more time to hone his wicketkeeping skills. I don't see the glaring need of a wicketkeeper in any format for India. Sure, our wicketkeepers could bat a bit better in all formats currently, but wicketkeeping skills are rarely,if ever, international quality before the subject is 21-22 years old. Even for ATG keepers like Boucher, Healy, etc. they were in their early-mid 20s before they were deemed good enough, so i don't see the point in rushing Rishabh.

 

Not only is he lighting up the domestic circuit this year so far...he was impressive and made an impact during the IPL as well....IPL being a different beast altogether.

 

That shows his adaptability across formats...On Top of that he was facing quality bowlers in the IPL,some of them at the peak of their prowess.

 

Also he is not to be confused with Unmukt Chand and other U-19 stars who may or may not improve eventually but they were shown the difference in handling the big boys and playing U-19 when they moved on to big leagues.

 

This kid has checked all the right boxes-Attacking strokeplay,Consistency,Adaptability and fearless attitude against world class bowlers.

 

Also I am not advocating him to start playing tests...players like this need to be inducted in the T20 and ODI arena at the earliest before they become obsolete.

 

Keeping yes I agree-a 19 year old might have trouble on green tracks and dustbowls...that is why I am suggesting the Gilly approach with him...play him as a batsman with specialist keepers....give him the odd game to keep and then get him ready to take over across all formats.

 

This is not like hyping a one off performance....this is across formats,across various kinds of bowling...A prodigy who is converting talent to runs....at the peak of his confidence...maybe in the midst of a purple patch.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by maniac

[Laaloo]

Test Team -Not at the moment

ODIs - Definitely

T20s - ABSOLUTELY

[maniac]

20 minutes ago, kruiser said:

please tell me again, why is percentage cricket bad? as long as you are making runs and not wasting balls, isnt that what matters? As per your post, good teams have 150+ bowlers and without any evidence to the contrary, you think that Jadhav will fail against them. he might, but I havent seen any evidence of that in the games he has played so far.  Actually i think only intelligent batsmen can play % cricket and then punish the bad balls. 

If anything, in the batting clips I have seen of Pant, he has been predominantly hitting the short balls over the infield on leg side. Again, he may have a more complete game, but we wont know unless he plays in more list A and First class matches. 

Dhoni from 2007-2012 that is good % cricket...minimal risk...pick targets and then go into a full-fledged power mode-That is a good example

 

Likes of Rohit are advised to play % cricket because once they are set they can more than make up for it against any bowling.

 

Gayle plays % cricket too but he makes up so much because when set he can take the part timers and the weaker bowlers for 20+ runs in an over.

 

Jadhav or the present avatar of Dhoni play a different kind of % cricket which is a cricket of survival...it is not like Jadhav will dab and block and suddenly take the spinners out for a 20 run over.

 

I have seen him in IPL and the current series and this is my personal opinion...I will apologize to every Jadhav fan out there if he is the next Virat Kohli who is just getting started but so far from what I have seen...don't think so..

 

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by maniac

[Muloghonto]

^
The only reason the 'Gilly approach' was taken, was because Gilly was 27, had 4+ years of utterly dominating the domestic league with his bat and Healy was still going strong and considered an ATG keeper who was the default keeper of AUS.

So yes, if we find a scenario where our current keeper sucks with the bat but is an ATG keeper and our 'potential keeper' has crushed the domestic league for YEARS, then sure, we can take that approach.

But for a kid who is 19 and not a finished product, he needs to hone his keeping skills before having his confidence shattered keeping to quality bowlers at the top level, ala Parthiv Patel. 

We need a solid keeper who can be a decent bat far more than we need an amazing batsman who can kinda-sorta-keep, way, way more. 

Let him be a solid keeper for a couple of years in FC cricket before we trust him to be a keeper at international level for ANY format.

 

[Muloghonto]

Short answer : no.

Slightly longer answer : No, he is 19 and I've never heard of anyone being a competent keeper at 19. I don't want to turn him into the new Parthiv Patel, who'd have his confidence shattered after dropping a couple from world class bowlers. We need a solid wicket-keeper who is a decent bat far more than we need a great batman who kinda sorta keeps, so we should re-visit Pant in 2-3 years time when he has plenty of experience keeping and would make a bonafide case to be a keeper (if he still continues developing).

 

[Laaloo]

In 2-3 years Dhoni will draft one of his nephews or relatives in the team.

[cowboysfan]

1 hour ago, laaloo said:

Test Team -Not at the moment

ODIs - Definitely

T20s - ABSOLUTELY

is he better than Dhoni? he hasnt even played A games.so its hard to say how he will play in different conditions against way better bowlers.