Austin 3:!6 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 In a day and age when wicket keeper's of most countries are fantastic bat like Dekock, Bairstow, Sarfraz, Chandimal...how long shall we tolerate the mediocrity of Wriddhiman Saha. Its so painful to see that our WK bat comes to bat after a bowler. Especially after watching MSD for years...Saha reminds me of MSK Prasad, Samir dighe, Ajay Ratra era. Not asking Saha to be next MS Dhoni bcoz players like those comes once in a generation but surely there are better keepers available in the country. Precisely the reason I am worried about our LOI team when Dhoni retires. Heard a lot about Rishabh Pant. He should immidiately replace Saha as our test keeper. And if he performs can slowly transition into LOI teams. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Bleed-Blue, AuxiliA, Sidhoni and 2 others 5 Link to comment
fineleg Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) Forget comparing with MSD or Sadanand Viswanath. Even Kiran More and Nayan Mongia were better keeper batsmen and can defend and score against spinners (and medium pacers) compared to W. Saha And his keeping is OK but not great! Edited November 20, 2016 by fineleg velu and vvvslaxman 2 Link to comment
mancalledsting Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Give him the rest of this series and maybe first game of next series. It's not that he doesn't have the tools to come good but because of his age, we cannot afford to invest in his long term 'development' without some short term return. Link to comment
Sidhoni Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Did well in West Indies and against NZ too. Just 2 poor matches guys. Now you will find it tough to believe but replacing Dhoni is not that easy. sscomp32 and nevada 2 Link to comment
express bowling Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) 28 minutes ago, fineleg said: Forget comparing with MSD or Sadanand Viswanath. Even Kiran More and Nayan Mongia were better keeper batsmen and can defend and score against spinners (and medium pacers) compared to W. Saha You are overestimating the batting ability of our keepers over the years in test matches. Apart from Dhoni, there has not been a single keeper in our history who has averaged more than 35. Not a single keeper has averaged over 40. ( among keepers who have played 15+ tests ) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 MS Dhoni 2005-2014 90 144 16 4876 224 38.09 6 33 10 BK Kunderan 1960-1967 15 28 3 831 192 33.24 2 3 1 FM Engineer 1961-1975 46 87 3 2611 121 31.08 2 16 7 PA Patel 2002-2008 20 30 7 683 69 29.69 0 4 4 WP Saha 2012-2016 19 28 4 697 104 29.04 1 4 3 SMH Kirmani 1976-1986 88 124 22 2759 102 27.04 2 12 7 KS More 1986-1993 49 64 14 1285 73 25.70 0 7 7 NR Mongia 1994-2001 44 68 8 1442 152 24.03 1 6 6 KD Karthik 2004-2010 16 24 1 491 93 21.34 0 3 2 NS Tamhane 1955-1961 21 27 5 225 54* 10.22 0 1 8 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;keeper=1;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=15;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=01+jan+1870;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting Edited November 20, 2016 by express bowling Laaloo, Tibarn and SecondSlip 3 Link to comment
gakgupta Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 39 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said: In a day and age when wicket keeper's of most countries are fantastic bat like Dekock, Bairstow, Sarfraz, Chandimal...how long shall we tolerate the mediocrity of Wriddhiman Saha. Its so painful to see that our WK bat comes to bat after a bowler. Especially after watching MSD for years...Saha reminds me of MSK Prasad, Samir dighe, Ajay Ratra era. Not asking Saha to be next MS Dhoni bcoz players like those comes once in a generation but surely there are better keepers available in the country. Precisely the reason I am worried about our LOI team when Dhoni retires. Heard a lot about Rishabh Pant. He should immidiately replace Saha as our test keeper. And if he performs can slowly transition into LOI teams. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk As a test keeper and batsmen, he is better than DHONI.... Link to comment
fineleg Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 @express bowling they could defend at least and can be counted on a bit more than this lasting for all of 10-20 balls that Saha does. As much as MSD captaincy sucks, Saha is NOT a better kp-bat than MSD in Tests @gakgupta Link to comment
express bowling Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Just now, fineleg said: @express bowling they could defend at least and can be counted on a bit more than this lasting for all of 10-20 balls that Saha does. Saha played quite a few gritty knocks against SL, SAF, WI and NZ...including 1 century and 4 fifties. Two bad tests ....can happen to anybody. gakgupta, nevada and Laaloo 3 Link to comment
Texan Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, express bowling said: You are overestimating the batting ability of our keepers over the years in test matches. Apart from Dhoni, there has not been a single keeper in our history who has averaged more than 35. Not a single keeper has averaged over 40. ( among keepers who have played 15+ tests ) Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 0 MS Dhoni 2005-2014 90 144 16 4876 224 38.09 6 33 10 BK Kunderan 1960-1967 15 28 3 831 192 33.24 2 3 1 FM Engineer 1961-1975 46 87 3 2611 121 31.08 2 16 7 PA Patel 2002-2008 20 30 7 683 69 29.69 0 4 4 WP Saha 2012-2016 19 28 4 697 104 29.04 1 4 3 SMH Kirmani 1976-1986 88 124 22 2759 102 27.04 2 12 7 KS More 1986-1993 49 64 14 1285 73 25.70 0 7 7 NR Mongia 1994-2001 44 68 8 1442 152 24.03 1 6 6 KD Karthik 2004-2010 16 24 1 491 93 21.34 0 3 2 NS Tamhane 1955-1961 21 27 5 225 54* 10.22 0 1 8 http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;keeper=1;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=15;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=01+jan+1870;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting You are forgetting that historically keepers were not expected to bat. But in today's day and age, all top teams in World cricket have keepers who can bat, some of them like de Kock, Bairstow, Chandimal, Sarfaraz average over 40. A keeper just keeping is just not good enough these days. He must be able to bat. More than just the average, it is Saha's temperament that is questionable. In the final innings of the last Test, when he was supposed to block, he came out all guns blazing and perished immediately. sscomp32, diga, AuxiliA and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Samcric Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 22 minutes ago, gakgupta said: As a test keeper and batsmen, he is better than DHONI.... Keeper - yes, batsman - no. You may compare averages, no. of matches/innings per 100/50, average in India, average overseas. Any way you cut it, Dhoni is a better batsman than Saha. In fact, the best batsman among wicket-keepers in Indian cricket so far. Problem is that Saha, who has been outstanding behind the wicket, has been missing simple catches and stumping. I am not worried about his batting stats at this stage (was brilliant with the bat against NZ just last month). The margin of error for straightforward catches and stumpings is zero when it comes to wicket-keepers. The only reason that Pant is unable to replace Saha is the high standard of Saha's keeping. Pant, for sure, will average at least 35-40 given the kind of batting talent he has. It is his keeping that makes a few people unsure. Though his Delhi team-mates have mentioned that he has improved a lot and has worked hard on his keeping this season. So Saha needs to ensure he keeps scoring those gutsy 40s-50s and more importantly, be sharp behind the stumps. Otherwise, with age not being on his side, just a matter of time before he is replaced. moniker 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Texan said: You are forgetting that historically keepers were not expected to bat. But in today's day and age, all top teams in World cricket have keepers who can bat, some of them like de Kock, Bairstow, Chandimal, Sarfaraz average over 40. A keeper just keeping is just not good enough these days. He must be able to bat. More than just the average, it is Saha's temperament that is questionable. In the final innings of the last Test, when he was supposed to block, he came out all guns blazing and perished immediately. The stats were in answer to a post that More, Mongia and most of our PAST keepers were better batsman than Saha...which is factually incorrect. I am not advocating a keeper who is a bad batsman. If and when a good test keeper comes, who is a clearly better batsman than Saha...he will be replaced. As of today, we don't have any. Edited November 20, 2016 by express bowling sandeep and Laaloo 2 Link to comment
Austin 3:!6 Posted November 20, 2016 Author Share Posted November 20, 2016 As a test keeper and batsmen, he is better than DHONI.... Lol...no. Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk sscomp32 1 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 For next yr or so he is not going anywere, unless he fails so miserably. For god sake its just been 2 games n people go crazy be it with him or rahane.(What cricket hae u grown up on that u see people scoring in every game) Saha has done well in Sl, Sa series, Wi n NZ series Which Sangakara n adam gilchrist are resy in domestic that we are so admant on replacing him. All of us here know he aint a long term solution and is no special talent but for present we need him. He is a very good keeper who time n again has played very gutsy knocks. U cant forget present by talking about future all the time Lord, express bowling, sscomp32 and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 56 minutes ago, gakgupta said: As a test keeper and batsmen, he is better than DHONI.... Would like to smoke watever ur smoking. Saha in his dream cannot play a knock like Dhoni's 224 which was a turning wkt..... AuxiliA, Austin 3:!6, Adi_91 and 4 others 7 Link to comment
Vijy Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 44 minutes ago, Samcric said: Keeper - yes, batsman - no. You may compare averages, no. of matches/innings per 100/50, average in India, average overseas. Any way you cut it, Dhoni is a better batsman than Saha. In fact, the best batsman among wicket-keepers in Indian cricket so far. Problem is that Saha, who has been outstanding behind the wicket, has been missing simple catches and stumping. I am not worried about his batting stats at this stage (was brilliant with the bat against NZ just last month). The margin of error for straightforward catches and stumpings is zero when it comes to wicket-keepers. The only reason that Pant is unable to replace Saha is the high standard of Saha's keeping. Pant, for sure, will average at least 35-40 given the kind of batting talent he has. It is his keeping that makes a few people unsure. Though his Delhi team-mates have mentioned that he has improved a lot and has worked hard on his keeping this season. So Saha needs to ensure he keeps scoring those gutsy 40s-50s and more importantly, be sharp behind the stumps. Otherwise, with age not being on his side, just a matter of time before he is replaced. Yes, Saha's keeping mistakes have been worrying. In turn, they have affected his batting as well... or maybe the other way around. sscomp32 1 Link to comment
sscomp32 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Did well in West Indies and against NZ too. Just 2 poor matches guys. Now you will find it tough to believe but replacing Dhoni is not that easy. Honestly this. MSD has made us spoilt and we look for very good keeper. Saha is OK for a keeper and the best we have currently but we do need to start finding a replacement now so that the new keeper is ready to take over any moment like saha was ready whenever Ms didn't play. Not this series but we can't definitely try new guys against the minnows aussies. The pressure will be lot less because aussies can't play here and the new wk can easily fit with the team. Then keep him in the squad as a backup for Saha on tours and series. With saha being 30+ we will definitely need someone as a backup. Bleed-Blue, Sidhoni and Adi_91 3 Link to comment
Vijy Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, sscomp32 said: Honestly this. MSD has made us spoilt and we look for very good keeper. Saha is OK for a keeper and the best we have currently but we do need to start finding a replacement now so that the new keeper is ready to take over any moment like saha was ready whenever Ms didn't play. Not this series but we can't definitely try new guys against the minnows aussies. The pressure will be lot less because aussies can't play here and the new wk can easily fit with the team. Then keep him in the squad as a backup for Saha on tours and series. With saha being 30+ we will definitely need someone as a backup. Lol. Must not get over-complacent, although Aus are indeed pretty poor at the moment. sscomp32 1 Link to comment
sscomp32 Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Lol. Must not get over-complacent, although Aus are indeed pretty poor at the moment. Don't go by the glorious aussies history. They have been minnows against spin for around 4 years now. Bangladesh would whitewash them if aussies did tour them. Sent from my SM-G550FY using Tapatalk Link to comment
Vijy Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, sscomp32 said: Don't go by the glorious aussies history. They have been minnows against spin for around 4 years now. Bangladesh would whitewash them if aussies did tour them. Sent from my SM-G550FY using Tapatalk Not going by history here. I know that their players, with 1-2 exceptions, can't play spin. Link to comment
Texan Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 2 hours ago, gakgupta said: As a test keeper and batsmen, he is better than DHONI.... Batting wise he is nowhere near Dhoni and keeping wise also, Dhoni was better. Dhoni's keeping kept getting better with time. sscomp32 1 Link to comment
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