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Austin 3:!6

So how long is the rope for Saha?

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To be honest with you the rope is dependent on how our top 5 specialist batsman are doing. You can afford to give him a longer rope f your specialists are firing.

 

Atm you cant count on both openers (due to England's good new ball bowlers) and Rahane.

 

This means you need to bolster the lower order or tail. Whats worrying is Rajkot was flat. Vizag was flat in the first innings. Not much to show. What happens if Mohali is a turner? 

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Not trying to troll here or something, but honestly speaking the way people were calling for Dhoni's throat I thought Saha was the next Gilchrist or something. Even now there are people who think Dhoni should discontinue from LOIs as well, what they aren't able to see is Dhoni is once in a lifetime player for a team like ours perenially struggling with the WK-bat position.

Dhoni could have continued as test batsman as he is still one of the best WK bats in the country. Even in 2014 Eng tour under those cold seam bowling friendly weather he looked our best batsman along with Rahane. But he needed to let go captaincy which he was not good at in tests. But dont think he was ready to play under Virat.

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1 hour ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Dhoni could have continued as test batsman as he is still one of the best WK bats in the country. Even in 2014 Eng tour under those cold seam bowling friendly weather he looked our best batsman along with Rahane. But he needed to let go captaincy which he was not good at in tests. But dont think he was ready to play under Virat.

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Why wouldn't he play under Virat? He has spoken about having no problems if the selectors decide to remove him as captain. The reason for him retiring as a player was the workload more than anything.

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20 hours ago, express bowling said:

The stats were in answer to a post that More, Mongia and most of our PAST keepers were better batsman than Saha...which is factually incorrect.

 

I am not advocating a keeper who is a bad batsman.    If and when a good test keeper comes,  who is a clearly  better batsman than Saha...he will be replaced.  As of today, we don't have any.

Actually Mongia is actually a better batsman . He did open the test for India and made 152 once. Also played crucial role in some tests, ODIs.  But role of keepers has expended post Gilchrist , Sangakkara, Dhoni, McCullum days.

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16 hours ago, maniac said:

This proves on thing,Stats never give the true picture....Parthiv Patel is no 4 on that list when the fact is that he is the poorest among all the keepers listed there.


You pull such stats say with Pakistan as a criteria and you will probably get Kamran AKmal as statistically the best or 2nd best WK-Bat from Pakistan of all time which doesn't tell you half the picture....I mean this is the guy who lost tests singlehandedly with keeping which has never ever happened before.

These stats are regarding  BATTING  performances of wicket-keepers  in test matches.  Does NOT show how they fared as wicket-keepers.  Parthiv Patel was a decent batsmen among keepers although he was a poor keeper. Similarly Akmal has 6 test centuries. 

 

Dhoni, our best batsman among keepers, is at No. 1 in that list.

16 hours ago, maniac said:

I know you published the stat to show Saha's batting credentials but here is the thing

The stats does not show Saha's batting credentials as he averages only 29.  It just shows that most of our past keepers, apart from Dhoni, were not very good batsmen either, as a poster had claimed.

 

16 hours ago, maniac said:

Now coming back to Saha,his batting is mediocre and you can pull such stats to prove he is the better than Mongia,kirmani etc. but what about his primary skill keeping? You think he is a better keeper than Mongia and Kirmani?

 

Now coming to Dhoni he is head and shoulders above Kirmani or mongia or any other WK-Bat we have produced....As a Keeper he is in the same league as Mongia etc while keeping to Spinners may be a shade better thats about it and that is debatable,but keeping to Pace he was pretty mediocre ........but then again you can't compare him to other Indian keepers because they hardly kept to a lot of fast bowlers barring 1or 2.....so that puts Dhoni in a league of his own which everyone accepts.

 

If Saha was as a way way better keeper than Dhoni and Mongia etc,We can accept his average batting without asking any questions...no problem at all but the fact is ,his keeping is not perfect, infact it is pretty mediocre,even though he was good against Nzl...... overall he has shown mediocre glove work....now that mediocre glove work would have been acceptable to some extent if Saha was better or as good as Dhoni with the bat,but he is neither that too.

 

Dhoni,Sangakkara,Mccullum,De Kock can play as batsmen alone for their sides and some of them have done that...Sarfaraz too given how mediocre Pak batting line up is can play as a batsman for them.

 

Now Saha doesn't obviously qualify in the above league which is obvious.

 

But all these players when they played as specialist batsman had back up keepers who where no way in their league as batsman..... but they were excellent specialist keepers.

 

Now I don't think you can call saha an excellent specialist keeper

 

SImple....Keeping is his primary job and his batting is a bonus which needs to compensate for odd failures in his primary role...that would be ok....but Saha is total mediocre in both departments

 

 

 

Saha has kept badly in just the first test versus England.  His keeping was quite good in the NZ and WI series. He did very well with the bat in both those series too, playing fighting innings many a times with his team in trouble.  Public memory is very short.

 

Just one bad test match does not undermine him as a keeper. How good Dhoni was as a keeper is not relevant here as he is not competing with Dhoni for  the WK slot. 

 

Our coach, captain and selectors have repeatedly said that they are happy with his keeping.... that is all that matters.

 

If we manage to find a good test quality keeper who looks like a  potential  40+ average batsman...Saha will be removed automatically.

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13 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Parthiv was poor in keeping, not in batting. He is still amongst the best as a batsman who can keep.

Definitely....He is very talented with the bat,no doubt....bit my response was to the post that just because Saha has a better batting average than Mongia/Kirmani,that makes him better than them.

 

Patel has enough talent to play for India as a batsman alone but for that he would be competing with equally good or better batsmen..so the queue is long,his advantage is that he is a keeper,but as it is proven how disastrous his keeping is,he is low down the list of keeper-batsmen.

 

Saha is not as good as Parthiv,Karthik etc. with the bat,his keeping a shade better and with the gloves he is pretty mediocre,so what justifies his continuous selection?

 

I wouldn't mind a keeper who averages 15.00 as long as he never drops a catch or misses stumpings oe even goes for the catches in first slip like most good keepers do when keeping to fast bowlers.

 

or the keeper who might be adequate and safe like Dhoni was even though not the most athletic keeper but then again he should be as good of a batsman as Dhoni as he was in SC conditions.

 

 

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If MSD is willing to play as a player, he can be in the Test team now. I think nearly all wanted him to quit the captaincy - people are aware that as a pure player he is the best wk-batsman. But he should play as a player under captaincy of Virat Kohli. But clearly MSD decided no, and he retired from the longer form of cricket.

Edited by fineleg

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1 minute ago, fineleg said:

If MSD is willing to play as a player, he can be in the Test team now. I think nearly all wanted him to quit the captaincy - people are aware that as a pure player he is the best wk-batsman. But he should play as a player under captaincy of Virat Kohli. But clearly MSD decided no, and he retired from the longer form of cricket.

He wants to play till 2019 WC and 2020 T20 WC...only way he can do that is by saving his body from quitting Tests which he didn't care about anyways.

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16 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

 

Saha is not as good as Parthiv,Karthik etc. with the bat,his keeping a shade better and with the gloves he is pretty mediocre,so what justifies his continuous selection?

 

 

handy contribution against SA, runs in SL, runs in WI along with a 100, runs against NZ...all these series have justified his continuous selection.

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6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

handy contribution against SA, runs in SL, runs in WI along with a 100, runs against NZ...all these series have justified his continuous selection.

But you seriously think,he is a long term selection.....I mean we don't have a keeper-batsman in India who is better than Saha at the moment? That is scary.

 

You don't perform just well enough to keep your place in your team,You are in the team because you are really good at 1 aspect.

 

I never said Saha deserves to be dropped,but he is overall pretty mediocre in both aspects...he has been good in patches

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all of our good keepers in domestic avg around 40-44 in domestic be it  saha parthiv karthik gautam kaul etc.
saba karim had staggering 57 !!! was he our best ever ?

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36 minutes ago, maniac said:

Definitely....He is very talented with the bat,no doubt....bit my response was to the post that just because Saha has a better batting average than Mongia/Kirmani,that makes him better than them.

 

Saha having a better batting average does not make him better than Kirmani or Mongia. Both were perhaps better keepers than Saha.  

 

The batting  average part was in response to a post that Mongia and More were better BATSMEN than Saha ....which is not true. Both were more inconsistent with the bat while being good keepers.

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Just now, express bowling said:

Saha having a better batting average does not make him better than Kirmani or Mongia. Both were perhaps better keepers than Saha.  

 

The batting  average part was in response to a post that Mongia and More were better BATSMEN than Saha ....which is not true. Both were more inconsistent with the bat while being good keepers.

Ok fair enough...Saha might be a better batsman but all I am saying is as an overall package he may be not as good as Mongia or Kirmani...keyword maybe

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22 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Hmm unfair sentiment finey

Not easy keeping and batting across all formats.

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Hmm which ? where? or did you address someone else? @G_B_

Edited by fineleg

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8 hours ago, Sidhoni said:

Why wouldn't he play under Virat? He has spoken about having no problems if the selectors decide to remove him as captain. The reason for him retiring as a player was the workload more than anything.

Indeed, Dhoni is a big time team player. Wasn't the best Indian test keeper but he will never have any problem playing under anyone.

 

Though I must say that he is one of those characters who might just surprise us and call it quits, the day he gives his captaincy away to another player. Not because he does not want to play under another player,  but because he might not enjoy the game game the same way he was enjoying with the added responsibility. I am a big Kohli supporter when it comes to captaincy, but team players like Dhoni come once in a very long time. I hope he is around till the 2019 world cup. 

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10 hours ago, maniac said:

But you seriously think,he is a long term selection.....I mean we don't have a keeper-batsman in India who is better than Saha at the moment? That is scary.

 

You don't perform just well enough to keep your place in your team,You are in the team because you are really good at 1 aspect.

 

I never said Saha deserves to be dropped,but he is overall pretty mediocre in both aspects...he has been good in patches

You don't always want a long-term solution. He is there till someone else is ready.

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10 hours ago, SUMO said:

all of our good keepers in domestic avg around 40-44 in domestic be it  saha parthiv karthik gautam kaul etc.
saba karim had staggering 57 !!! was he our best ever ?

Saba Karim was pretty good with the bat but his keeping was mediocre.

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8 hours ago, ShebbySB said:

Pant should play some A games before we consider him for tests.Right now I'd prefer

Sheldon Jackson to replace Saha.

he is not a regular keeper....he doesn't even keep for his state side

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Wicket keeping is a very specialist posistion. wanting to drop a wicket keeper for a bad game behind the stumps for a better batsman is a bit like wanting to drop a specialist bowler for an all rounder after he had a bad game with the ball. theirs no stats for wicket keeping and most games are not televised so its impossible to know how good or bad these other wicket keepers are unless your a bcci scout. and i am not even sure if they even exist.

 

 

 

Edited by Silva

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How on earth people are saying that he had a bad second test match? Did you even saw the pitch on the last two days? Such uneven bounce and yet he was collecting everything cleanly. He scored crucial runs in NZ series too, he's safe for now.

 

Also people praising Dhoni's keeping can give me a break, dude was a liability in foreign trips. I remember that 2012 English Series in which he looked absolutely ridiculous keeping the wickets.

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Saha isn't the best batsman but probably the best keeper going around.He's good no.8 in tests,gritty as a basman.

Ashwin is doing a good job at no.6 but I think we need him more as a bowler than batsman.For now we will play

in our home conditions so it'll not be an issue but when we go abroad we really need to find a no.6 who can bowl

seam.Hardik should be groomed for that. Rahul,Vijay,Pujara,Kohli,Rahane from 1 to 5. Hardik at 6 who can bowl

seam and 135+ in tests that's a rarity in our country. Ashwin at 7,  Saha at 8 followed by 3 seamers in Shami, Umeshand Ishant/BK. Jadeja will only come in if there is enough help for spin in place of a seamer. This is the team for now.If Pant can continue his form for sometime then he'll replace Saha in the long run.

Edited by ShebbySB

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How long a rope for Pujara?

 

He put the team under pressure by scoring 1 run out of 23 balls in I2 of II test. He is always batting slow and causes other players to go for strike and get out. He is a liability to the team. He crumbles under pressure and has a large percentage of his dismissals as bowled. that shows he is suspect for peach and unplayable deliveries.

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2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

How long a rope for Pujara?

 

He put the team under pressure by scoring 1 run out of 23 balls in I2 of II test. He is always batting slow and causes other players to go for strike and get out. He is a liability to the team. He crumbles under pressure and has a large percentage of his dismissals as bowled. that shows he is suspect for peach and unplayable deliveries.

+++

 

Its fanboy fantasy cricket syndrome. Let's go chase getting a superstar at every position, instead of being objective about what we have as options.   Drop Saha.  Drop Jadeja for Jayant  Yadav.  Tomorrow, they will want to drop either or both of the openers if they don't score a 100 soon, although Rahul might get a longer rope because he is 'new' and has xyz factor.  

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35 minutes ago, diga said:

Just realised that Dinesh Karthik is younger than Saha... He should have made it big if not for Dhoni/personal issues 

Problem was his batting and shot selection. Wasted his chances. One class shot, then fidgety-fidgety and then a stupid shot to get out.

Edited by fineleg

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8 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Problem was his batting and shot selection. Wasted his chances. One class shot, then fidgety-fidgety and then a stupid shot to get out.

Not just his batting, his wicket-keeping was pathetic, especially later in his career. Only Kamran Akmal was worse than him.

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8 minutes ago, Texan said:

0 & 5

 

Playing a Test v/s Bangladesh and getting a 100 means the rope is long for him, especially with the chief selector being a fan of his keeping.

He's a freaking wicketkeeper, stop expecting 100s after 100s from him, it is not saha's fault that our top order just forgot how to bat, his primary job is keeping and he's bloody brilliant at that

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On 11/23/2016 at 5:52 AM, diga said:

Just realised that Dinesh Karthik is younger than Saha... He should have made it big if not for Dhoni/personal issues 

He's a terrible keeper, doesn't even keep for his state team now, he didn't have the temperament to make it big

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3 minutes ago, kira said:

He's a freaking wicketkeeper, stop expecting 100s after 100s from him, it is not saha's fault that our top order just forgot how to bat, his primary job is keeping and he's bloody brilliant at that

Did you just type this on a telegraph machine or are you actually using the internet? I am wondering which age you are stuck in where keepers only keep and don't bat.

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