So how long is the rope for Saha?

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, diga said:

Question is , do we want a hit & miss player or a more consistent one? Do we have replacements in the domestics available? Is age on Saha's side? 

 

 

No real replacements in the domestic scene -  too inexperienced or those that have been shown to be poor keepers anyway

[Texan]

26 minutes ago, diga said:

Anyone remember the horrible shot he played to be bowled in the first test match against Australia in Adelaide...  Kohli could have done with some support and who knows what could have happened. We lost that by 48 runs and we had 4 more wkts after Saha

 

And its not like he has learnt anything from it either. Just watch the atrocious innings he played in the 2nd innings of the Rajkot Test v/s England. This guy just does not seem to have the stomach for a fight. 

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, Texan said:

The "we don't have a better option" argument is something I have heard for the umpteenth time. It is not like we don't have good keeper batsmen in domestics. We just have to show some guts to blood them. 

Those keepers who are considered  back-ups  for test matches are usually seen playing the 4 day matches on A tours and in the Duleep trophy.

 

Those keepers are Naman Ojha, Parthiv Patel, Srikar Bharat and Dinesh Karthick.

 

Parthiv and  Bharat were nothing special as keepers.

 

Karthick has major issues with temperament.

 

Naman Ojha is the only realistic option but he is very similar to Saha is a lot of aspects, including age and is seen as a less gritty batsman.

 

I  watch a lot of domestic cricket and have not come across a keeper who has struck as a good future prospect as of today.

 

All the good batsmen among keepers that i see are poor keepers with defective techniques as of today and will take atleast 12 to 18 months to be ready for tests if they work hard on their keeping.

 

Who do you have in mind ?

 

 

 

 

[tweaker]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Those keepers who are considered  back-ups  for test matches are usually seen playing the 4 day matches on A tours and in the Duleep trophy.

 

Those keepers are Naman Ojha, Parthiv Patel, Srikar Bharat and Dinesh Karthick.

 

Parthiv and  Bharat were nothing special as keepers.

 

Karthick has major issues with temperament.

 

Naman Ojha is the only realistic option but he is very similar to Saha is a lot of aspects, including age and is seen as a less gritty batsman.

 

I  watch a lot of domestic cricket and have not come across a keeper who has struck as a good future prospect as of today.

 

All the good batsmen among keepers that i see are poor keepers with defective techniques as of today and will take atleast 12 to 18 months to be ready for tests if they work hard on their keeping.

 

Who do you have in mind ?

 

 

 

 

What about Aditya Tare ,who was the best keeper in domestic cricket last season.

His age is also between Saha,Ojha & Pant,Kishan.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, tweaker said:

What about Aditya Tare ,who was the best keeper in domestic cricket last season.

His age is also between Saha,Ojha & Pant,Kishan.

I have not seen him keep.  Do you think he is a good keeper  ?

 

If he is good as a keeper then he should definitely get a chance on A tours or should have been picked  for  Duleep trophy.

 

He can be an interesting option as he is an attacking batsman.

[tweaker]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I have not seen him keep.  Do you think he is a good keeper  ?

 

If he is good as a keeper then he should definitely get a chance on A tours or should have been picked  for  Duleep trophy.

 

He can be an interesting option as he is an attacking batsman.

He has good stats as wicket keeper for last 2-3 seasons.He had the highest numbers of caught behind/stumping last season .He also saved many batting blues for Mumbai with his gutsy batting.

 

 

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, tweaker said:

He has good stats as wicket keeper for last 2-3 seasons.He had the highest numbers of caught behind/stumping last season .He also saved many batting blues for Mumbai with his gutsy batting.

 

 

Then we need him in our A side in place of Ojha.  Why is he not in contention !

 

The selectors missed a trick by not playing him in the  Duleep Trophy.

Edited November 21, 2016 by express bowling

[Sidhoni]

Not trying to troll here or something, but honestly speaking the way people were calling for Dhoni's throat I thought Saha was the next Gilchrist or something. Even now there are people who think Dhoni should discontinue from LOIs as well, what they aren't able to see is Dhoni is once in a lifetime player for a team like ours perenially struggling with the WK-bat position.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Sidhoni

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, Sidhoni said:

Not trying to troll here or something, but honestly speaking the way people were calling for Dhoni's throat I thought Saha was the next Gilchrist or something. Even now there are people who think Dhoni should discontinue from LOIs as well, what they aren't able to see is Dhoni is once in a lifetime player for a team like ours perenially struggling with the WK-bat position.

people were calling Dhoni to quit captaincy. Why couldn't he play under any other captain, even in ODIs. Regarding Dhoni as a test batsman, he was an average test batsman who was good in India, average around 44 in India, but even Dhoni wasnt close to Gilchrist in test cricket who averaged around 50 for most his career in tests. He does not have a 100 overseas in tests. Saha already does.

[Sidhoni]

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

people were calling Dhoni to quit captaincy. Why couldn't he play under any other captain, even in ODIs. Regarding Dhoni as a test batsman, he was an average test batsman who was good in India, average around 44 in India, but even Dhoni wasnt close to Gilchrist in test cricket who averaged around 50 for most his career in tests. He does not have a 100 overseas in tests. Saha already does.

My post was clearly for people who thought Dhoni should have been dropped both as captain and player. Regarding his batting abilities in tests, I agree that he wasn't close to Gilchrist but he was still the best we've had.

[G_B_]

To be honest with you the rope is dependent on how our top 5 specialist batsman are doing. You can afford to give him a longer rope f your specialists are firing.

 

Atm you cant count on both openers (due to England's good new ball bowlers) and Rahane.

 

This means you need to bolster the lower order or tail. Whats worrying is Rajkot was flat. Vizag was flat in the first innings. Not much to show. What happens if Mohali is a turner? 

[Austin 3:!6]

Not trying to troll here or something, but honestly speaking the way people were calling for Dhoni's throat I thought Saha was the next Gilchrist or something. Even now there are people who think Dhoni should discontinue from LOIs as well, what they aren't able to see is Dhoni is once in a lifetime player for a team like ours perenially struggling with the WK-bat position.

Dhoni could have continued as test batsman as he is still one of the best WK bats in the country. Even in 2014 Eng tour under those cold seam bowling friendly weather he looked our best batsman along with Rahane. But he needed to let go captaincy which he was not good at in tests. But dont think he was ready to play under Virat.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Cricketics]

I always thought Naman Ojha was a better bet than Saha. Saha deserved his chance and got it. Now I want to see Naman Ojha who performed well when he was given his one chance. If we win the series by 4th test  and Saha hasn't put runs, I would like to see Ojha replace him. 

[Sidhoni]

1 hour ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Dhoni could have continued as test batsman as he is still one of the best WK bats in the country. Even in 2014 Eng tour under those cold seam bowling friendly weather he looked our best batsman along with Rahane. But he needed to let go captaincy which he was not good at in tests. But dont think he was ready to play under Virat.

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Why wouldn't he play under Virat? He has spoken about having no problems if the selectors decide to remove him as captain. The reason for him retiring as a player was the workload more than anything.

[goose]

Never tinker with a winning team.

[vvvslaxman]

20 hours ago, express bowling said:

The stats were in answer to a post that More, Mongia and most of our PAST keepers were better batsman than Saha...which is factually incorrect.

 

I am not advocating a keeper who is a bad batsman.    If and when a good test keeper comes,  who is a clearly  better batsman than Saha...he will be replaced.  As of today, we don't have any.

Actually Mongia is actually a better batsman . He did open the test for India and made 152 once. Also played crucial role in some tests, ODIs.  But role of keepers has expended post Gilchrist , Sangakkara, Dhoni, McCullum days.

[vvvslaxman]

I gave a pass because of his decent keeping. He was fumbling a lot. He didn't make even simple collections. HE is on par with Mushfiqur Rahim in terms of keeping.

[express bowling]

16 hours ago, maniac said:

This proves on thing,Stats never give the true picture....Parthiv Patel is no 4 on that list when the fact is that he is the poorest among all the keepers listed there.

You pull such stats say with Pakistan as a criteria and you will probably get Kamran AKmal as statistically the best or 2nd best WK-Bat from Pakistan of all time which doesn't tell you half the picture....I mean this is the guy who lost tests singlehandedly with keeping which has never ever happened before.

These stats are regarding  BATTING  performances of wicket-keepers  in test matches.  Does NOT show how they fared as wicket-keepers.  Parthiv Patel was a decent batsmen among keepers although he was a poor keeper. Similarly Akmal has 6 test centuries. 

 

Dhoni, our best batsman among keepers, is at No. 1 in that list.

16 hours ago, maniac said:

I know you published the stat to show Saha's batting credentials but here is the thing

The stats does not show Saha's batting credentials as he averages only 29.  It just shows that most of our past keepers, apart from Dhoni, were not very good batsmen either, as a poster had claimed.

 

16 hours ago, maniac said:

Now coming back to Saha,his batting is mediocre and you can pull such stats to prove he is the better than Mongia,kirmani etc. but what about his primary skill keeping? You think he is a better keeper than Mongia and Kirmani?

 

Now coming to Dhoni he is head and shoulders above Kirmani or mongia or any other WK-Bat we have produced....As a Keeper he is in the same league as Mongia etc while keeping to Spinners may be a shade better thats about it and that is debatable,but keeping to Pace he was pretty mediocre ........but then again you can't compare him to other Indian keepers because they hardly kept to a lot of fast bowlers barring 1or 2.....so that puts Dhoni in a league of his own which everyone accepts.

 

If Saha was as a way way better keeper than Dhoni and Mongia etc,We can accept his average batting without asking any questions...no problem at all but the fact is ,his keeping is not perfect, infact it is pretty mediocre,even though he was good against Nzl...... overall he has shown mediocre glove work....now that mediocre glove work would have been acceptable to some extent if Saha was better or as good as Dhoni with the bat,but he is neither that too.

 

Dhoni,Sangakkara,Mccullum,De Kock can play as batsmen alone for their sides and some of them have done that...Sarfaraz too given how mediocre Pak batting line up is can play as a batsman for them.

 

Now Saha doesn't obviously qualify in the above league which is obvious.

 

But all these players when they played as specialist batsman had back up keepers who where no way in their league as batsman..... but they were excellent specialist keepers.

 

Now I don't think you can call saha an excellent specialist keeper

 

SImple....Keeping is his primary job and his batting is a bonus which needs to compensate for odd failures in his primary role...that would be ok....but Saha is total mediocre in both departments

 

 

 

Saha has kept badly in just the first test versus England.  His keeping was quite good in the NZ and WI series. He did very well with the bat in both those series too, playing fighting innings many a times with his team in trouble.  Public memory is very short.

 

Just one bad test match does not undermine him as a keeper. How good Dhoni was as a keeper is not relevant here as he is not competing with Dhoni for  the WK slot. 

 

Our coach, captain and selectors have repeatedly said that they are happy with his keeping.... that is all that matters.

 

If we manage to find a good test quality keeper who looks like a  potential  40+ average batsman...Saha will be removed automatically.

[maniac]

13 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Parthiv was poor in keeping, not in batting. He is still amongst the best as a batsman who can keep.

Definitely....He is very talented with the bat,no doubt....bit my response was to the post that just because Saha has a better batting average than Mongia/Kirmani,that makes him better than them.

 

Patel has enough talent to play for India as a batsman alone but for that he would be competing with equally good or better batsmen..so the queue is long,his advantage is that he is a keeper,but as it is proven how disastrous his keeping is,he is low down the list of keeper-batsmen.

 

Saha is not as good as Parthiv,Karthik etc. with the bat,his keeping a shade better and with the gloves he is pretty mediocre,so what justifies his continuous selection?

 

I wouldn't mind a keeper who averages 15.00 as long as he never drops a catch or misses stumpings oe even goes for the catches in first slip like most good keepers do when keeping to fast bowlers.

 

or the keeper who might be adequate and safe like Dhoni was even though not the most athletic keeper but then again he should be as good of a batsman as Dhoni as he was in SC conditions.

 

 

[fineleg]

If MSD is willing to play as a player, he can be in the Test team now. I think nearly all wanted him to quit the captaincy - people are aware that as a pure player he is the best wk-batsman. But he should play as a player under captaincy of Virat Kohli. But clearly MSD decided no, and he retired from the longer form of cricket.

Edited November 21, 2016 by fineleg