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Areas where Kohli is better than Tendulkar as a player.


narenpande1

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11 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said:

With all due respect, it was only during Ganguly's captaincy that Dravid blossomed. India's team in early noughties was obviously much better than the players you mentioned in the 90s.. probably only Kumble in '90s was better than Kumble in '00s

This is just a perception and not a reality. Dravid averaged 48 between 1996 till Jan 2000 in 35 tests with 6 hundreds. Yes he was amazing between 2002-2006 but was not bad before that. In fact, his form gone after 2007 England tour and averaged 43 in that period till his retirement. So, you can say that he had a dip in performance during Dhoni's captaincy except England 2011 tour.

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2 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

SRT at his peak and before the tennis elbow had a breathtaking array of shots...moreso than Kohli.

 

But having followed both, Kohli gives MORE REASSURANCE..sort of a mixture of solidity of Dravid plus the stroke making ability of Tendulkar.

 

SRT totally crumbled under captaincy pressures not once but in both the stints..whereas Virat has better numbers as captain !

 

Most of us Indian fans salivate and that " desert storm " innings as the pinnacle of SRT's batting - whereas I find it EXTREMELY OVERRATED.

 

There are great emotions because of what we needed to qualify and his domination of Aus in that series and Tony Greig's orgasmic commentary.

 

But guess who was bowling there - Tom Moody, Kasprowicz, Steve Waugh, Fleming and a Shane Warne just back from a major shoulder operation. One of the most ordinary Aussie ODI attacks.It was not on some batting minefield but a typical Sharjah patta.

 

Sehwag has decimated far more gruesome Pakistani attacks on their soil even more brutally. 

 

But it is Sachin's " desert storm" knock that people remember - not for the right reasons but emotions.

 

Infact compare that desert storm knock of Tendulkar on that Sharjah pitch, to Kohli hammering Malinga 145K yorkers for 6 even when needed to qualify for the finals in a very similar situation in Australia..  Kohli's knock stands out.

 

Kohli has atleast 5 more years of this level of performance to establish himself as a legend, pretty sure unless there is a serious mishap.......he is going to hammer all records.

That's ODI cricket.  And I agree that Sehwag has been far more destructive.  But thats not the point.  Tendy's greatness was not about one odd innings, or dominating one opponent.  In his pomp, he scored runs consistently against everyone, everywhere.  In an era where anyone averaging about 45 was considered really good, he averaged 60+  And its not just about the runs, its about the quality.   Take today's session - we enjoyed Kohli's cover drive and that pull shot for 4 so much - because it oozed quality.  Those shots have the stamp of class on them.  Tendy could and do that with every shot in the book.  But anyway, I don't want to wax too eloquent on Tendy.   

 

Let's enjoy today's cricket and Kohli and Vijay's clutch performance.  

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1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

This is just a perception and not a reality. Dravid averaged 48 between 1996 till Jan 2000 in 35 tests with 6 hundreds. Yes he was amazing between 2002-2006 but was not bad before that. In fact, his form gone after 2007 England tour and averaged 43 in that period till his retirement. So, you can say that he had a dip in performance during Dhoni's captaincy except England 2011 tour.

If one looks at 1990s, very few batsmen averaged over 50 - I think there was Gooch (who was in the end stages and at his peak), Lara, Tugga (?) and SRT had the highest comfortably. A surprise inclusion therein was Ganguly, who had a rollicking start. So, both Dravid and Gangs were doing well even in the 1990s.

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5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

How can you say Pakistan is ordinary if they are on top of the charts?

Dude, we are ranked #1 by a distance at the moment.  But all of us know that we have still some improvements to make and demonstrate (especially away from home) before we can be put in that top tier of test teams.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, sandeep said:

That's ODI cricket.  And I agree that Sehwag has been far more destructive.  But thats not the point.  Tendy's greatness was not about one odd innings, or dominating one opponent.  In his pomp, he scored runs consistently against everyone, everywhere.  In an era where anyone averaging about 45 was considered really good, he averaged 60+  And its not just about the runs, its about the quality.   Take today's session - we enjoyed Kohli's cover drive and that pull shot for 4 so much - because it oozed quality.  Those shots have the stamp of class on them.  Tendy could and do that with every shot in the book.  But anyway, I don't want to wax too eloquent on Tendy.   

 

Let's enjoy today's cricket and Kohli and Vijay's clutch performance.  

Minor correction: Didn't average 60+ over a long period. He did, however, average around 59 from beginning of 1993 to SA tour in 2011. Around 18.5 years.

 

As you said, it's about the technical purity he possessed. People who go too much by the numbers will never be able to appreciate that.

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2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Minor correction: Didn't average 60+ over a long period. He did, however, average around 59 from beginning of 1993 to SA tour in 2011. Around 18.5 years.

 

As you said, it's about the technical purity he possessed. People who go too much by the numbers will never be able to appreciate that.

I closed the window already, but check the stats if you filter his  test stats from 1/1/95 to 12/31/01 - he's above 60.  I just randomly picked those dates, I have a hunch he probably averaged 60+ for a longer period.   

 

And yeah, watching him bat was something else.    Us Indian fans have been blessed with a lot on the batting front.  Tendy's freakish perfection.  Veeru's brutal destruction.  Azhar's wristy magic (although I will never forgive the guy for his crimes), and add to that some strong supporting stars like Laxman, Dravid, Ganguly.    Murli, Kohli and co. are proving themselves to be worthy heirs to that legacy of Indian batting.

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2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I closed the window already, but check the stats if you filter his  test stats from 1/1/95 to 12/31/01 - he's above 60.  I just randomly picked those dates, I have a hunch he probably averaged 60+ for a longer period.   

 

And yeah, watching him bat was something else.    Us Indian fans have been blessed with a lot on the batting front.  Tendy's freakish perfection.  Veeru's brutal destruction.  Azhar's wristy magic (although I will never forgive the guy for his crimes), and add to that some strong supporting stars like Laxman, Dravid, Ganguly.    Murli, Kohli and co. are proving themselves to be worthy heirs to that legacy of Indian batting.

VK - yes. Murali has some way to go. And both VVS and Dravid deserve to be mentioned ahead of Azhar, even just in terms of batting (excluding his fixing stuff).

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6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I closed the window already, but check the stats if you filter his  test stats from 1/1/95 to 12/31/01 - he's above 60.  I just randomly picked those dates, I have a hunch he probably averaged 60+ for a longer period.   

 

And yeah, watching him bat was something else.    Us Indian fans have been blessed with a lot on the batting front.  Tendy's freakish perfection.  Veeru's brutal destruction.  Azhar's wristy magic (although I will never forgive the guy for his crimes), and add to that some strong supporting stars like Laxman, Dravid, Ganguly.    Murli, Kohli and co. are proving themselves to be worthy heirs to that legacy of Indian batting.

 

I see Veeru as a bigger hero ( thats just me...). I dreaded those days from 99-2001, where Pak attack lead by Akhtar, Saqlain and Wasim was at its peak and we kept getting hammered by Pak game after game. Be it in India, Sharjah or Australia. It was the worst period of SRT's ODI form and one of the worst times to be Indian fan.

 

Veeru for me exorcised those ghosts by decimating this very Pak attack with brute force on their own soil and everywhere and ending many of their careers.

 

Again this is just ODIs. 

Edited by narenpande1
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1 minute ago, narenpande1 said:

 

I see Veeru as a bigger hero ( thats just me...). I dreaded those days from 99-2001, where Pak attack lead by Akhtar, Saqlain and Wasim was at its peak and we kept getting hammered by Pak game after game. Be it in India, Sharjah or Australia. It was the worst period of SRT's ODI form and one of the worst times to be Indian fan.

 

Veeru for me exorcised those ghosts by decimating this very Pak attack with brute force on their own soil and everywhere and ending many of their careers.

 

Again this is ODIs. 

And that's fine.  Veeru is a legend in his own right.  He doesn't get the accolades he deserves for revolutionizing test match opening batting.   Watch Australia lionize Warner these days, and if he performs in the next Ashes, they will go batshit crazy.  But Warner is only following in Veeru's footsteps.  

 

And everyone's allowed their personal favorites.  No need to force a "God" down someone's throat.  I have no qualms accepting that Tendy for all his quality, didn't always get the job done under pressure.   I will however dispute it if its claimed that he was a choker, or "not a matchwinner" or some other crap like that.  

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6 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

 

I see Veeru as a bigger hero ( thats just me...). I dreaded those days from 99-2001, where Pak attack lead by Akhtar, Saqlain and Wasim was at its peak and we kept getting hammered by Pak game after game. Be it in India, Sharjah or Australia. It was the worst period of SRT's ODI form and one of the worst times to be Indian fan.

 

Veeru for me exorcised those ghosts by decimating this very Pak attack with brute force on their own soil and everywhere and ending many of their careers.

 

Again this is just ODIs. 

But, Veeru also did mighty well in Tests against Pak (much better than ODIs).

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7 minutes ago, Vijy said:

VK - yes. Murali has some way to go. And both VVS and Dravid deserve to be mentioned ahead of Azhar, even just in terms of batting (excluding his fixing stuff).

Agreed.  I was referring to the aesthetics.  Loved watching VVS bat more than Dravid from that perspective.  VVS in flow was an artist at work. Good balls would be caressed to the boundaries at impossible angles, on either side of the wicket, based on his whim.  Ok, a big exaggerated, but you get the point.

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1 minute ago, sandeep said:

And that's fine.  Veeru is a legend in his own right.  He doesn't get the accolades he deserves for revolutionizing test match opening batting.   Watch Australia lionize Warner these days, and if he performs in the next Ashes, they will go batshit crazy.  But Warner is only following in Veeru's footsteps.  

 

And everyone's allowed their personal favorites.  No need to force a "God" down someone's throat.  I have no qualms accepting that Tendy for all his quality, didn't always get the job done under pressure.   I will however dispute it if its claimed that he was a choker, or "not a matchwinner" or some other crap like that.  

 

Agree on all your points.

 

For all of Tendy's breathtaking strokeplay and technical mastery, I find Kohli's batting more reassuring. Reassurance that he will see India through. Dravid used to give that at his peak, Kohli does that plus he is a brilliant strokeplayer in his own right.

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2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Agreed.  I was referring to the aesthetics.  Loved watching VVS bat more than Dravid from that perspective.  VVS in flow was an artist at work. Good balls would be caressed to the boundaries at impossible angles, on either side of the wicket, based on his whim.  Ok, a big exaggerated, but you get the point.

Yes, the Hyderabadi style of batsmanship, starting with ML Jai.

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For me this is the greatest inning ever played chasing..... Tendulkar almost single-handedly won the match chasing 350.

Don't tell me that a 36 and a half year old Sachin couldn't raise his game under pressure and isn't FIT enough to play 50 overs after fielding.

Down to earth attitude of Sachin is superior to * all attitude.

That inning could have been the greatest innings ever played had we won the match.:Cry:

 

 

 

Edited by _ramkumar
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3 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

 

Agree on all your points.

 

For all of Tendy's breathtaking strokeplay and technical mastery, I find Kohli's batting more reassuring. Reassurance that he will see India through. Dravid used to give that at his peak, Kohli does that plus he is a brilliant strokeplayer in his own right.

At least in Tests, Tendu's batting (at peak) was more reassuring for me.

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4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Tendulkar was a better test batsman than Kohli ( as of today )  in terms of  range of skills.

 

Kohli is mentally tougher, always up for a challenge and always plays to win it for his team.  

 

 

 

Tendulkar was a better first innings batsman than Kohli in ODIs.

 

Kohli is a much better ODI  chaser, the best ever IMHO.

Amen to all this.

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