Lower order batting depth when we tour AWAY

[fineleg]

When we tour Eng, NZ, Aus and SA -

How do we replicate the lower order batting depth - this has been a KEY contribution to victory on these non-rank-turner pitches for Eng series.

Ashwin, Jayant Yadav, R. Jadeja (and Pappu batting up order in 3rd Test).

Ashwin will be in the 11 - but not sure how much he is capable to score runs in Eng, NZ, SA...

 

Jayant Yadav and R. Jadeja will likely not be in the 11.

Bhuvi is probably 10-15% of Jayant Yadav - so he cannot score all that much. I think he used to bat better earlier, he is "sorta ok" now.

It will come down to Hardik Pandya - still unproven, and we need one other good seamer allrounder who is nowhere in sight in domestics!

[G_B_]

hmm thats where our problems are

 

I dont think Sir is good enough overseas. Will prefer it if we play Ashwin+ 3 seamers Bhuvi Umesh and Shami with Ishant as back up.

 

Pappu Patel

VJ

Che

Kohli

Rahane

Rahul

Ashwin

Saha

Bhuvi

Umesh

Shami

 

I also think Pappu is best as an opener. 

 

 

[fineleg]

We MUST find a better wk-batsman than Saha before we do Away tours. Absolutely need that.

[sandeep]

If somehow miraculously Pandya turns into a viable 3rd seamer - we can turn into a world dominating team.  If he can bat #6 and be 4th seamer, that may be enough to get us away series wins.  That's really the missing link, the rest is there.

 

We can't have all eggs in the Pandya basket - even if he recovers from this impact injury, seam bowlers are always likely to have injury issues.  We need to search and groom some young desi Shane Watson/Ben Stokes types.  

 

This is more important than getting better batting out of the 'keeper IMO.  That would definitely help as well.  If India had equivalents of Bairstow and Stokes, then that team would rule world test cricket for a generation - home and away.

[fineleg]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

 

This is more important than getting better batting out of the 'keeper IMO.  That would definitely help as well.  If India had equivalents of Bairstow and Stokes, then that team would rule world test cricket for a generation - home and away.

That would be ultimate! Very difficult to find though!

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, fineleg said:

That would be ultimate! Very difficult to find though!

Well even poor man's version of either will be good enough to get our team winning overseas.  

[BeautifulGame]

hmm thats where our problems are

 

I dont think Sir is good enough overseas. Will prefer it if we play Ashwin+ 3 seamers Bhuvi Umesh and Shami with Ishant as back up.

 

Pappu Patel

VJ

Che

Kohli

Rahane

Rahul

Ashwin

Saha

Bhuvi

Umesh

Shami

 

I also think Pappu is best as an opener. 

 

 

Every test we have won overseas , opener has always played a big role .Putting Parthiv as opener and exposing both Pujara and Kohli to new ball early is damaging .

If we are to win overseas , We need a solid top 5 , there should be no compromise.It isn't subcontinent where we could do with make do openers .We need to find a long term solution of a keeper good enough to bat @6 home and away .Then having Pandya and Ashwin @7 &8 will give us the depth we have at home.

Also honestly don't think that seam attack is going to win us many matches particularly as we will get flat wickets with little swing .

Only Shami has the skills and discipline to take wickets on those wickets .Umesh and Ishant are at best good enough to a 3 choice support seamer.We really need to find another quality seamer or two, if we are serious about winning overseas.

We have to try new wicket keeper and young seamers in the last test and the Aus series .Otherwise we will end with the same sorry results .

[rkt.india]

34 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Every test we have won overseas , opener has always played a big role .Putting Parthiv as opener and exposing both Pujara and Kohli to new ball early is damaging .

If we are to win overseas , We need a solid top 5 , there should be no compromise.It isn't subcontinent where we could do with make do openers .We need to find a long term solution of a keeper good enough to bat @6 home and away .Then having Pandya and Ashwin @7 &8 will give us the depth we have at home.

Also honestly don't think that seam attack is going to win us many matches particularly as we will get flat wickets with little swing .

Only Shami has the skills and discipline to take wickets on those wickets .Umesh and Ishant are at best good enough to a 3 choice support seamer.We really need to find another quality seamer or two, if we are serious about winning overseas.

We have to try new wicket keeper and young seamers in the last test and the Aus series .Otherwise we will end with the same sorry results .

SA, NZ, England, you will always have helpful pitches, some if not all. Even WI at some venues. 

[BeautifulGame]

SA, NZ, England, you will always have helpful pitches, some if not all. Even WI at some venues. 

But they have. hardly give us . England learnt after Lords and gave us flat ones .And even if they are helpful in first innings,they still get flat in the 2nd innings in places like SA and Nzl

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

But they have. hardly give us . England learnt after Lords and gave us flat ones .And even if they are helpful in first innings,they still get flat in the 2nd innings in places like SA and Nzl

Old Trafford and Rosebowl were not flat. Our batsmen could not handle the swing and bounce there. We struggled to cross 100 there. They two of the quickest and bounciest pitches you will ever see in England, were not green mambas like Lords but had enough grass to keep bowlers in the game. Same in NZ, both our tests saw low scores. In SA, Wanderers was as green as any helpful pitch in SA.

[BeautifulGame]

Old Trafford and Rosebowl were not flat. Our batsmen could not handle the swing and bounce there. We struggled to cross 100 there. They two of the quickest and bounciest pitches you will ever see in England, were not green mambas like Lords but had enough grass to keep bowlers in the game. Same in NZ, both our tests saw low scores. In SA, Wanderers was as green as any helpful pitch in SA.

All were only in first innings.Flattenned out and were as bad as any road we get in Australia,during the second innings.

In most of them,our bowlers performed till there was help, it's when it flattened out their flaws were exposed in the second innings

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

All were only in first innings.Flattenned out and were as bad as any road we get in Australia,during the second innings.

In most of them,our bowlers performed till there was help, it's when it flattened out their flaws were exposed in the second innings

Seaming pitches overseas will mostly get better as the game progresses. ON those pitches, first innings is the toughest. All even Lords was good for batting after first 2 days. Pitches in India will get worse as the game progresses. In India, 4th innings is the toughest.

[BeautifulGame]

Seaming pitches overseas will mostly get better as the game progresses. ON those pitches, first innings is the toughest. All even Lords was good for batting after first 2 days. Pitches in India will get worse as the game progresses. In India, 4th innings is the toughest.

Yes and hence we need bowlers with skill to take wickets when conditions flatten.Of our seamers only Shami has shown the skill and discipline for that.Even his fitness very questionable.

That's what I was referring to.We need to find young seamers with potential (in the remaining six tests) if we realist of winning overseas because I don't see Bhuvi/Yadav/Ishant having the ability to take 20 wickets .

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Yes and hence we need bowlers with skill to take wickets when conditions flatten.Of our seamers only Shami has shown the skill and discipline for that.Even his fitness very questionable.

That's what I was referring to.We need to find young seamers with potential (in the remaining six tests) if we realist of winning overseas because I don't see Bhuvi/Yadav/Ishant having the ability to take 20 wickets .

at present, none of them has shown that ability, not Shami. Shami played on all those tours of SA, NZ, Aus, England.

[express bowling]

In  the SA tour 12 months later ---- ( solution for only one series )

 

1) Vijay

2) Parthiv ( wk )

3) Pujara

4) Kohli ( c )

5) Rahane

6) Rahul

7) Ashwin

8) Pandya

9) Umesh / Bhuvi

10) Ishant

11) Shami

 

Nathu Singh, Shardul Thakur, Aniket Chaudhuri, Jayant, Jadeja, Kuldeep.

 

 

--    Parthiv is a bad wicket-keeper against spin but is ok against pace.  His ability to open maybe questioned but we don't have any other ready opener who has a tight game like Vijay in form.

 

--  It will give us batting depth till 8 or 9.

 

--   Any new all-condition pacer,  who is better, can replace Umesh, Bhuvi, Ishant, if ready for test cricket

 

 

 

In the England tour after 17 months ----  ( long-term solution )

 

1) Vijay

2) Rahul

3) Pujara

4) Kohli ( c )

5) Rahane

6) Pant  ( wk )

7) Ashwin

8) Pandya

9) Umesh / Bhuvi

10) Ishant

11) Shami

 

Nathu Singh, Shardul Thakur, Aniket Chaudhuri, Jayant, Jadeja, Kuldeep.

 

 

--   Any new all-condition pacer,  who is better, can replace Umesh, Bhuvi, Ishant, if ready for test cricket

 

--  It will give us batting depth till 8 or 9.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by express bowling