Top 5 asian cricketers

[rtmohanlal]

My   choices

 

1. Sachin Tendulkar -  much  longevity than any body else  in  the most difficult discipline(batting) in both formats  of the game ,good to great avg:s in all the countries he played in   & that too in both the formats, had to withstand intense pressure than any player who played the game , wide range of shots, adept at playing all sorts of   bowling ,playing different sorts of inns as per the situation whether it be defensive or aggressive, pleasing to the eye, at his very best against the best team of his time(AUS), has great world cup records in one dayers, great tournament knock out  stats  in one dayers,played in one of the most bowler freindly decades (90s)   etc etc .All these traits are reflected in the batting stats he has achieved.  To add to that a useful bowler who took 200 wkts. All achieved always  thru  fair tactics.Yet a humble player.

 

2 . Kapil dev - I am sure , this will surely raise a few eye brows. But , here are my reasons.the best all rounder India has produced.His stats need to be evaluated based against the context he played in. In test bowling he had to withstand  tremendous workload(first 62 tests in  just 5 years & 5 months & took 247 wkts, first 88 tests in just 8 years & 6 months),lone quality bowler India had( now a days we see how Indian bowlers like Jadeja & Ashwin compliment each other that gets reflected in their stats.Also  we see how  quality players from weak teams are forced to withstand intense pressure when the team is in a losing streak  in series.The current IND-ENG series is a prime example of this ). In Kapil's days there were no bowlers  with adequate quality or longevity even in home tests to support him. So his bowling avg: need to be evaluated based on his longevity,work density & support bowling strength.   In test batting too he played 184 inns for an allrounder(longevity) , had almost 81 str: rate from those difficult 80s, played many back to the wall inns for India, was the undisputed  best batsman among all rounders  against WI in WI(the best team of his era).

  In one dayers  too, he was the top allrounder of the 80s.  A brilliant all round fielder, a  very good captain( won the world cup at the age of 24 by beating the best one day team in history).He virtually owned that world cup tournament in true all round sense.Has series victory in ENG, a drawn series victory  in AUS(if not for whether IND would have won the series),a 2-0 loss in WI etc etc.In both AUS & WI tours Kapil was the top all rounder. All this he achieved with a  team with very weak bowling unit.   

3. Kumar Sangakkara - Great longevity in both forms of the game.He played in a batting wise weaker SL team compared to  India(Sachin's case) .Has great  avg:s in both formats(when compared to Sachin it pales)  in every country he played in.Had penchant for big scores.Great world cup record( though

a fair share of it came in the much batting friendly 2010s).During his final years he had to cope with  T20 too and was fairly successful in it too.I think

Sanga overall adapted  more or less in similar levels to both formats of the game compared to other great contestants Atleast that is what i feel when going thru the stats of these batsmen. So he is placed at 3rd .And he kept wickets for SL too in fair share of matches in both formats.

 

4.Rahul Dravid -  great  test batsman with great longevity. Played  some really match winning  inns for IND both home & abroad.Slightly off the mark in SAF & SL.In one dayers too with over 10000 runs & 39+ avg: he proved to be a very good batsman.Some times kept wickets too.

 

5. Sunil Gavaskar - One of the best opening( most difficult position) test bats of all time.Great record against quality pace bowling.Equally adept vs spin & swing bowling too.Played some crucial inns for IND both home & abroad.In  one days too, his avg: of 35  & over  3000  runs  from those difficult 80s  & that too opening the inns shows he was a good player.But his slightly off longevity when compared to Dravid  in one dayers  puts him at 5th. Also first thought of placing Javed Miandad above Sunil.Certainly he was a superior one day player to Sunil.But his weird LBW record ( heard that it was almost impossible to get Javed out LBW in PAK.Though  the effect of this on his test career can't be exactly statistically measured, for a fair game lover like me that matters)   & its effect on his stats places him below Sunny.

 

Omissions  & reasons

Dhoni- Definitely an ATG player in my book.A good  test batsman with 38 avg:  in 90 tests .A legendary one day player & one of the very best finishers of the game.A brilliant one day captain  & good wicket keeper too.  But  his batting alone is not adequate to place him  higher than those in 'top 5 '.Yet if

captaincy  & wicket keeping added he comes really close

 

Imran khan - Despite being a top candidate in such  exercises  , off late  i don't rate him as much as i used to, once.This is because of the clear  & strong  ball tampering allegations  that  have come against him. And the final nail on the coffin was struck by his own country man & fellow player  Rameez Raja

who wrote an article  claiming 'ball  tampering  a patent  matter of Pakistani just like whining has been   for the ENG & sledging for the Aussies. Any way , even with out taking ball tampering into account, i would have placed Kapil slightly above Imran because of the contexts both players played in and the effects of the contexts on their career stats.  And with Rameez Raja's article even my slightest doubts have vanished. I believe in fair play. No unfair tactics

to attain greatness.This is the case for both Wasim & Waqar in varying degrees.If not for  these  allegations underlined  by Rameez, Wasim would definitely have been in my top 5.Waqar doubtful though.

 

Muralitharan  - chucking controversies.Though  cleared in the LABS, the possibility of having chucked in real match situations can't  be 100 % neglected, especially his doosra.So doubts  still casts shadows.Nevertheless a great player

 

Other notable omissions -

V.M.Mankad,Haneef  mohammed, Jayasoorya,Sehwag,Inzamam,Mohammed Yousaf ,Laxman,Ganguly,Subhash Gupte,Saqlain,Bedi,Chandra- all very good to borderline great players.

 

Mates .... pls have your choices & reasons for the same

 

   

 

 

 

     

Edited December 20, 2016 by rtmohanlal
a small mistake

[jalebi_bhai]

1. MS Dhoni: the only captain to have won major trophies/plaudits across all formats. One of the best ODI player ever and statistically our best Test keeper. His Test captaincy is the only thing I disliked, very strongly. Was the face of Indian cricket when the balance of power in world cricket tilted in our favour.

 

2. Sunil Gavaskar: the original little master.

 

3. Sachin Tendulkar: no explanation needed.

 

4. Wasim Akram: best fast bowler from Asia.

 

5. Sanath Jayasuriya: lynchpin of Sri Lankan cricket from the mid 90s to late noughties.

 

Honorable mentions:

Kapil Dev, Rahul Dravid, Inzamam ul-Haq, Waqar Younis, Kumar Sangakkara, Anil Kumble, Muttiah Muralitharan, PA D'silva, Javed Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, Virat Kohli, Virender Sehwag, Mohammad Yousuf.

 

No Immy for obvious reasons.  

[sandeep]

Says it all that you have mostly batsmen in your top 5.  Even Kapil makes the cut due to his all-round abilities.  

 

Bowlers win test matches.  Champion teams have champion bowlers.   Fans need to recognize and celebrate the hard working bowlers more.  

 

But "Bowlers Lives Matter" aside, not a bad list to have a "top 5".  Personally I'm not a fan of such lists because they are extremely subjective and introduce cross-era comparsions which again, are subjective. 

 

The way cricket has evolved you really need to separate Tests and ODIs - Dhoni for example, wouldn't come close in the former, while he's probably the 1st name on an Asian Top 5 ODI list.  

 

Sticking to test cricket, I'll give you my top Asian 5 - from the top of my head - 

 

Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Imran, Kapil, Sanga.  

 

If Imran is off the list due to "tampering" questions, so should Kapil for all the match-fixing noises around him.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

good thread albeit a bit cliche.. but what is top 5 best ? if a player is the best then he/she is the best. If they are top 5, then 2-5 are not the best. So its just top 5.

 

Justsaying.

[rtmohanlal]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Says it all that you have mostly batsmen in your top 5.  Even Kapil makes the cut due to his all-round abilities.  

 

Bowlers win test matches.  Champion teams have champion bowlers.   Fans need to recognize and celebrate the hard working bowlers more.  

 

But "Bowlers Lives Matter" aside, not a bad list to have a "top 5".  Personally I'm not a fan of such lists because they are extremely subjective and introduce cross-era comparsions which again, are subjective. 

 

The way cricket has evolved you really need to separate Tests and ODIs - Dhoni for example, wouldn't come close in the former, while he's probably the 1st name on an Asian Top 5 ODI list.  

 

Sticking to test cricket, I'll give you my top Asian 5 - from the top of my head - 

 

Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Imran, Kapil, Sanga.  

 

If Imran is off the list due to "tampering" questions, so should Kapil for all the match-fixing noises around him.

 

First of all tampering degrades a players 'skill' in addition to ' moral ethics'.But  'match fixing' degrades 'moral ethics' only.

For instance Azhar fixing matches showed  he was even better player than he actually  turned out to be.Why? Because  a player can

fix matches only by loosing  & not by winning.That means if he avoided deliberate fixing

Azhar  could have achieved more. Secondly in Kapil's case CBI cleared him of any charges w.r.t match fixing.A proven culprit

like Prabhakar can't be taken seriously any way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jalebi_bhai]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Says it all that you have mostly batsmen in your top 5.  Even Kapil makes the cut due to his all-round abilities.  

 

Bowlers win test matches.  Champion teams have champion bowlers.   Fans need to recognize and celebrate the hard working bowlers more.  

 

But "Bowlers Lives Matter" aside, not a bad list to have a "top 5".  Personally I'm not a fan of such lists because they are extremely subjective and introduce cross-era comparsions which again, are subjective. 

 

The way cricket has evolved you really need to separate Tests and ODIs - Dhoni for example, wouldn't come close in the former, while he's probably the 1st name on an Asian Top 5 ODI list.  

 

Sticking to test cricket, I'll give you my top Asian 5 - from the top of my head - 

 

Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Imran, Kapil, Sanga.  

 

If Imran is off the list due to "tampering" questions, so should Kapil for all the match-fixing noises around him.  

Bowling and batting are equally important facets. There is, as such, no way to prioritize on or the other. Every discipline in cricket is co-dependent on the other.

 

Honestly, such a list without MSD, Gavaskar and Tendulkar is not credible.

 

And I agree with your stance on Kapil-Immi. 

[Vilander]

Just now, jalebi_bhai said:

Bowling and batting are equally important facets. There is, as such, no way to prioritize on or the other. Every discipline in cricket is co-dependent on the other.

 

Honestly, such a list without MSD, Gavaskar and Tendulkar is not credible.

 

And I agree with your stance on Kapil-Immi. 

Its test season, so bowlers win matches as in, bowlers take 20 wickets, and win games. batters score heaps of runs so that their team bowlers can defend it and take the opposition 20 wickets and win matches.

 

Basically bowlers win matches, batsmen set them up.

[jalebi_bhai]

4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Its test season, so bowlers win matches as in, bowlers take 20 wickets, and win games. batters score heaps of runs so that their team bowlers can defend it and take the opposition 20 wickets and win matches.

 

Basically bowlers win matches, batsmen set them up.

But we are considering all formats here. 

 

Who would you have as Asia's five greatest?

[sandeep]

ODIS:

 

For India - Kapil, Dhoni, Tendulkar.  VK with his ridiculous numbers and his chasing genius will end up there as well.   Jayasuriya for SL maybe?

 

Hard to pick one Pak player as their alltime ODI great, they've had a bunch of extremely good players, but not a true great, but that could just be ignorance on my part.  I'm aware Zaheer Abbas has some quality numbers, and Imran, Wasim, Miandad, maybe even Inzi in the mix?  

[rtmohanlal]

But one important point. Batting is much difficult discipline than bowling. A bowler can make the most serious of mistake in any ball he bowls in an inns.The most result is getting carted for a sixer. Yet the bowler can continue thru the rest of the inns. But what for batsmen?It takes even hours of concentration amidst various huge noises around him  in addition to the lightning speed  bullets thrown at him  to even reach a modest score in an inns.  A slightest mistake at any stage, even after getting well set, he is back in the pavilion .So for me batting is much more difficult

[Vilander]

53 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

But we are considering all formats here. 

 

Who would you have as Asia's five greatest?

thanks for asking man.

 

OK here we go.

 

Tests:

1,Murali

2,Kumble

3,Kapil

4,Sangakara

5,Sachin

 

ODI

 

1, Sachin

2, Jayasurya

3, Dhoni

4, Murali

5,Wasim

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

good thread albeit a bit cliche.. but what is top 5 best ? if a player is the best then he/she is the best. If they are top 5, then 2-5 are not the best. So its just top 5.

 

Justsaying.

yes... you are correct.  That 'best' word  was unnecessary.

[jalebi_bhai]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

thanks for asking man.

 

OK here we go.

 

Tests:

1,Murali

2,Kumble

3,Kapil

4,Sangakara

5,Sachin

 

ODI

 

1, Sachin

2, Jayasurya

3, Dhoni

4, Murali

5,Wasim

No Jayasuriya for ODIs? Come on man, that mofo terrorized world cricket in the 90s. 

[zen]

In no particular order, from those who have retired: 

 

Gavaskar - first two reach 10k test runs. Arguably the best test opener of all time and Ind's best batsman 

Sehwag - revolunized openers role in tests, tons of big scores

Muralitharan  - spin wiz with 800 test wkts. Good in most conditions 

Imran Khan - all round skills, one of the greatest fast bowlers and leadership abilities 

Tendulkar - probably the most gifted cricketer to come out of Asia. Would be the #1 pick for ODIs in most 11s 

 

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

Imran, Murali, Akram, Kapil and SRT.