Is Mamta Banerjee's West Bengal becoming a mini Pakistan?

[Muloghonto]

11 hours ago, chewy said:

you have to be careful with such statements, especially in India, no one wants a repeat of Gujarat 2002 or Mumbai 1992. 

 

The law & order needs to be stronger and stricter and not treat all situation with kid gloves, because majority of people in India still trust the law & order people in India and hence we don't see riots every other day, but if patience runs out then....(i hope that patience never runs out)

Saying law and order needs to be stronger, isn't going to make it stronger.

We need to spend more on law & order : we need to raise police & judge salaries (makes them less suspect to bribery), we need to train more police, have more courts & judges. 

The Modi government has been slow on this- just like every other Indian government. But we are of the mindset that national security is through bombs & planes and missiles and curbing crime is a matter of 'morality'. We are hopelessly wrong on both counts- modern warfare isn't fought on the battlefield, not between nuclear nations- but via networks of proxy criminal enterprises. 

[Ranvir]

22 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

As someone from Kolkata, I can safely say this, before Kashmir, WB will secede from India. That is the level of threat. 

Well the only good news is that Muslims are in very few numbers in the Indian Army and therefore nothing will change in terms of borders.

 

Bangladeshis also caused trouble in Burma and whilst I don't agree at all with what the Burmese did at least they are safe and the Bangladeshis know not to mess with the Buddhist Burmese anymore. You cannot show any liberal tendencies towards them.

 

Why don't Shiv Sena or RSS go to West Bengal?

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

Well the only good news is that Muslims are in very few numbers in the Indian Army and therefore nothing will change in terms of borders.

 

Bangladeshis also caused trouble in Burma and whilst I don't agree at all with what the Burmese did at least they are safe and the Bangladeshis know not to mess with the Buddhist Burmese anymore. You cannot show any liberal tendencies towards them.

 

Why don't Shiv Sena or RSS go to West Bengal?

Because bengali hindus don't like the 'live like a hindu, put hindu label on everything, blindly idolize past practices coz they were hindu' type of hinduvta that RSS promotes. As someone said, we are truly hindus during festivals & personal events. Beyond that, we are too liberal usually to cowtow conservative hinduism that is more popular in the hindi-marathi belt. Its not like RSS hasn't tried. 

The problem with WB is that there are 3 political factions in Bengal : Pro-Muslim/Muslim, Communist/Collectivist & liberal hindus. The latter are the majority. The former are the next biggest bloc. The commies are the smallest bloc. Bengali politics for 40+ years has been a competition between CPM & Congress for the Muslim vote. Who can appease the muslims better. So the pro-muslim & Collectivist groups are in political alliance. Due to CPM mismanagement, Didi basically stole the commie vote from CPM. Meanwhile, the liberal hindus, who used to be more aligned with communism have no option but TMC because TMC is delivering economic results better than CPM did and there is no 3rd option.

 

BJP will only break into Bengal, if it customizes its hinduvta for Bengali palette. The sati-savitri + Purushottam model that works in the Ganges belt + Maharashtra doesn't appeal to the Bongs. 

[Texan]

Mamta is turning out to be worse than the Left. I don't see much difference in what Mamta offers and what the Left offers. They are both extreme leftist minority appeasing parties. Mainstream parties do not seem to have made major inroads. While BJP does not have much of an organization in WB, Congress after Mamta's departure is no longer significant (except for small pockets). What is needed is that either the BJP can find a mass leader or a local right wing or centrist party with a mass leader emerges. Otherwise, WB will be fast going down the drain and we would be creating another Bangladesh soon. 

[kabbirann]

On 24/12/2016 at 0:51 AM, Ranvir said:

Sorry if this is controversial but I will never understand why Hindus are so tolerant towards Muslims. Hindus are being kicked out of Bangladesh and you guys in West Bengal just let Muslim Bangladeshis come over? Have some backbone. Don't give them jobs, without jobs they cannot survive. Why is it that when Hindus have almost been eliminated from Kashmir you still let so many muslims live in Hindu majority Jammu?

 

Why are there so many muslims in Delhi, Mumbai, Calcutta when there are next to no Hindus in Karachi or Lahore?

 

I always hear Hindus say Indian muslims are good and not like Pakistanis. Well let me tell you something, they are only like that when they are in the minority, when they are the majority in an area just look at Kashmir to see what will happen.

 

Why are there even 200 million muslims in India anyway? At partition you guys foolishly let them stay behind in large numbers in states like UP, Bihar, Maharashtra, Gujarat. In Punjab we did to them what they did to us and now there are very few living there and they know their place.

 

It's all ok to be liberal and open minded but not with muslims, they exploit other people's kindness and see it as a weakness.

 

The key difference is Hindus like us Sikhs are more interested in money whereas the muslims are more interested in their religious ideology. They are not open minded, I have been to shops owned by Hindus and Sikhs here in the UK where they will sell Muslim items like pictures of Kabaa, but you will never see muslims sell Hindu murtis or pictures of Sikh gurus. We need to stop pandering to them.

 

What is the point of sending groups like Shiv Sena and RSS to Punjab where Hindus are in no danger, why don't these groups have some balls and go to Kashmir and West Bengal where they are actually needed.

What a reprehensible post and to talk so callously about  the carnage and misery that was partition.

If you are actually a Sikh,you've zero idea about Sikhism and how insulting your views are to our religion and frankly you would be better off reverting to the religion of your ancestors.

[mishra]

Wtf. FIR against Zeenews for reporting Dhulagarh. 

Not just BJP, Mamata di hasnt allowed anyone including CPM Yechury, to  visit area.

Didi attacks jouno for asking about Dhulagarh violence and says "Nothing  Happened".

 

[Detonator]

10 hours ago, Texan said:

Mamta is turning out to be worse than the Left. I don't see much difference in what Mamta offers and what the Left offers. They are both extreme leftist minority appeasing parties. Mainstream parties do not seem to have made major inroads. While BJP does not have much of an organization in WB, Congress after Mamta's departure is no longer significant (except for small pockets). What is needed is that either the BJP can find a mass leader or a local right wing or centrist party with a mass leader emerges. Otherwise, WB will be fast going down the drain and we would be creating another Bangladesh soon. 

This is not appeasement. It's the elimination of the current majority, and turning minority into majority.

[surajmal]

What irony! Preaching culture to rest of India for decades about to become refugees... Karma is a ...   (Sorry, I will stay sickular)... Newton's third law of motion. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by surajmal

[Texy]

Momta di thinks in this day and age, one can keep a lid on things by force 

[Ranvir]

12 hours ago, kabbirann said:

What a reprehensible post and to talk so callously about  the carnage and misery that was partition.

If you are actually a Sikh,you've zero idea about Sikhism and how insulting your views are to our religion and frankly you would be better off reverting to the religion of your ancestors.

I am a realist. The Muslims wanted partition and they got it, they were responsible for the carnage since they demanded a seperate country. They killed a lot of Sikhs in places like Rawalpindi and Lahore and Sikhs retaliated and gave as good as they got otherwise East Punjab would have a large Muslim population and would be facing the same situation as West Bengal today. Pakistan is 97% Muslim and prospects for minorities are far worse than they are in India. What the creation of Pakistan showed was that when Muslims form a majority in an area they will demand independence and make life extremely difficult for minorities, we've already seen that in Kashmir.

 

But hey, you keep listening to Sufi songs from Hans Raj Hans and Gurdas Khan and think they are peaceful people.

[randomGuy]

6 hours ago, Ranvir said:

I am a realist. The Muslims wanted partition and they got it, they were responsible for the carnage since they demanded a seperate country. They killed a lot of Sikhs in places like Rawalpindi and Lahore and Sikhs retaliated and gave as good as they got otherwise East Punjab would have a large Muslim population and would be facing the same situation as West Bengal today. Pakistan is 97% Muslim and prospects for minorities are far worse than they are in India. What the creation of Pakistan showed was that when Muslims form a majority in an area they will demand independence and make life extremely difficult for minorities, we've already seen that in Kashmir.

 

But hey, you keep listening to Sufi songs from Hans Raj Hans and Gurdas Khan and think they are peaceful people.

What are your views on how the future will be like? For example, in the day and age of smartphone, internet and literacy (literacy rate at 13 years for India is  arms 99%, meaning almost every young boy n girl be grow up as literate) , would religion be a such an relevant thing in say next 30-50 years ?

[mishra]

6 hours ago, Ranvir said:

I am a realist. The Muslims wanted partition and they got it, they were responsible for the carnage since they demanded a seperate country. They killed a lot of Sikhs in places like Rawalpindi and Lahore and Sikhs retaliated and gave as good as they got otherwise East Punjab would have a large Muslim population and would be facing the same situation as West Bengal today. Pakistan is 97% Muslim and prospects for minorities are far worse than they are in India. What the creation of Pakistan showed was that when Muslims form a majority in an area they will demand independence and make life extremely difficult for minorities, we've already seen that in Kashmir.

 

But hey, you keep listening to Sufi songs from Hans Raj Hans and Gurdas Khan and think they are peaceful people.

Exactly, Onus is on Islam to prove it can co-exists with other religion. Till date, whether Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Chechanya, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq,Nigeria, Somalia. Even in modern day and age, It is only proving otherwise.

[randomGuy]

17 minutes ago, mishra said:

Exactly, Onus is on Islam to prove it can co-exists with other religion. Till date, whether Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Chechanya, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq,Nigeria, Somalia. Even in modern day and age, It is only proving otherwise.

Even where you would think Islam doesn't even exist (just Google)...places like Thailand, Philippines, china etc. There are local islamic terrorist organisations active in the name of freedom etc.

[mishra]

Just now, randomGuy said:

Even where you would think Islam doesn't even exist (just Google)...places like Thailand, Philippines, china etc. There are local islamic terrorist organisations active in the name of freedom etc.

Thailand,Philipines are the only places which hasnt been weaponised. There have been previous attempts like Bali bombing but AK-47 is still not accessible because of Strong Communist Chinese interest in that region. It should not last long though. They themselves have built a Road and brokered deal with Taliban.

[chewy]

On 28/12/2016 at 8:34 PM, Muloghonto said:

Saying law and order needs to be stronger, isn't going to make it stronger.

We need to spend more on law & order : we need to raise police & judge salaries (makes them less suspect to bribery), we need to train more police, have more courts & judges. 

The Modi government has been slow on this- just like every other Indian government. But we are of the mindset that national security is through bombs & planes and missiles and curbing crime is a matter of 'morality'. We are hopelessly wrong on both counts- modern warfare isn't fought on the battlefield, not between nuclear nations- but via networks of proxy criminal enterprises. 

I agree with this. 

 

Major reforms needed with regards to Police. Too many times I have heard young men wanting to join police force to make "side" money (mainly from relatives in Rajasthan, Gujarat and MP). I know one specifically wanting to be join the Police and be posted near truck checkpoints near Gujarat-Rajasthan border for obvious reasons. 

[randomGuy]

42 minutes ago, mishra said:

Thailand,Philipines are the only places which hasnt been weaponised. There have been previous attempts like Bali bombing but AK-47 is still not accessible because of Strong Communist Chinese interest in that region. It should not last long though. They themselves have built a Road and brokered deal with Taliban.

What do you mean by hasn't been weaponised -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_conflict

 

In Thailand 6000 lives have been lost and in Philippines more than 100,000 since 60s

Edited December 30, 2016 by randomGuy

[Muloghonto]

15 minutes ago, chewy said:

I agree with this. 

 

Major reforms needed with regards to Police. Too many times I have heard young men wanting to join police force to make "side" money (mainly from relatives in Rajasthan, Gujarat and MP). I know one specifically wanting to be join the Police and be posted near truck checkpoints near Gujarat-Rajasthan border for obvious reasons. 

The big difference between the west & india, re: police, is that every officer has to make log entries to account for their time on duty. Nobody keeps a hawkish eye on it anyways- not unless you are high level RCMP. They are also always partnered up. Like, if you EVER respond to a call or make any interaction with civilian without partner nearby, you better explain yourself well. This regime of log-keeping is what keeps most officers straight as well (not to mention, really good salaries) - its always a risk to make false entries & get busted and it always acts as a damper for the careless ones/not brave enough to be corrupt ones atleast.

 

But all this requires money. If we cannot increase budget significantly for law & order + police (and i am talking about 2x + expansions, given the scale and scope of India), then take it from the military. Indian military definitely needs upgrading for the long-term future, but right now, we need to first match China/west in law & order + infrastructure before we can effectively match them on the battlefield posturing.

 

[mishra]

55 minutes ago, randomGuy said:

What do you mean by hasn't been weaponised -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_conflict

 

In Thailand 6000 lives have been lost and in Philippines more than 100,000 since 60s

I think I was ignorant about above Thai/philippino angleand always understood them at China/US angle.

 

Benchmark of weaponisation is like

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/town-ak-47-sells-less-8602081

 

After that you can have it all the way to ISIS level

[Ranvir]

2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

What are your views on how the future will be like? For example, in the day and age of smartphone, internet and literacy (literacy rate at 13 years for India is  arms 99%, meaning almost every young boy n girl be grow up as literate) , would religion be a such an relevant thing in say next 30-50 years ?

Maybe Hindus and Sikhs might get less religious but Muslims are different. Saudi has a high literacy rate and look at the behaviour of some its citizens. Muslims have gone further backwards with time and more 'religious'. 15-20 years ago in England there were hardly any girls wearing headscarves but now there are lots and you can even see women in full face covered Burqas. Iran and Afghanistan used to be fairly liberal until they became heavily islamicized. 

 

Don't bury your head in the sand and be optimistic about Muslims sorting themselves out with rising literacy rates, they want to become more Islamic, 40% of them want Shariah law in England.

 

It seems the only way to control them is using heavy handed tactics like in China.

[randomGuy]

45 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

Maybe Hindus and Sikhs might get less religious but Muslims are different. Saudi has a high literacy rate and look at the behaviour of some its citizens. Muslims have gone further backwards with time and more 'religious'. 15-20 years ago in England there were hardly any girls wearing headscarves but now there are lots and you can even see women in full face covered Burqas. Iran and Afghanistan used to be fairly liberal until they became heavily islamicized. 

 

Don't bury your head in the sand and be optimistic about Muslims sorting themselves out with rising literacy rates, they want to become more Islamic, 40% of them want Shariah law in England.

 

It seems the only way to control them is using heavy handed tactics like in China.

I like to think that I am realist...I, like everyone else, think right now Islam is a big big problem for the whole world. But I am optimistically thinking that easily available internet (through smartphones) could change it in a couple of generations (One generation = 20 years). We can say now with the advent of smartphones, 4g/broadband etc. the internet has truly become universal (maybe not even now)....So I would like a couple of generations to pass on to see the effects...A 13 yo kid would be 53 yrs in 40 years and many older Islamists would have died of old age.