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Is Mamta Banerjee's West Bengal becoming a mini Pakistan?

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10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

There is no causal link between social justice and having entreprenuers/scientists - the entreprenuers in China all have direct link with the military cabaal and the scientists are there simply because they are needed. china is basically what a stable African tinpot dictatorship is - they have entreprenuers there too, who are all there because of their kissing up to the military-mafia. The scientist scenario is similar to the whole 'why work in the middle east' scenario, minus the amazing pay and option to leave. 

no causal but environmental relation. besides education infrastructure investment etc lots of things have to align very well with very intelligent people at the helm for an economy and a country to perform as well as china. i think from a western point of view( one that India has subscribed to in a higher degree than China) china would feel deficient, but hard facts metrics and development tells us there is a story there. I mean when i hear jack maa speak there is a triumph of free enterprise there, i can not honestly contest that. They are doing several things right, and if they somehow manage to be a democracy -- they will be the USA on steroids. 

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4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

no causal but environmental relation. besides education infrastructure investment etc lots of things have to align very well with very intelligent people at the helm for an economy and a country to perform as well as china. i think from a western point of view( one that India has subscribed to in a higher degree than China) china would feel deficient, but hard facts metrics and development tells us there is a story there. I mean when i hear jack maa speak there is a triumph of free enterprise there, i can not honestly contest that. They are doing several things right, and if they somehow manage to be a democracy -- they will be the USA on steroids. 

Arre baba, the only things you need to align, is the powers-that-be (aka the military junta of China) allowing the entreprenuers to sift the 1.6 billion populace for people who are smart enough to innovate & steal ideas from the west and people who are hardworking and scared enough to be 12-14 hr sweatshop slaves. Thats all you need.


When tinpot African dictatorships can do thriving business, despite going kaput every 10-15 years, why would the entreprenueral scenario in China not be much better with stability since the gang of four era of the 70s ??


They are doing several things right - for the chosen few to make $$ and the vast majority to live in practically 'prison with money' living conditions. For the common folks, i'd still say India would be preferrable to China once the novelty of the TV and fridges wear off. Their medical industry is even more corrupt and unaccountable than the Indian one, so i am not too sure we can say that benefits the Chinese much. 

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6 minutes ago, Vilander said:

why can't Bengal really adopt Chinese model? they like to be communist they should go full mental. be like a mini federated china within India. 

How do you do dictatorship of the proleteriat and swear loyalty to the military as a state within a non-commie nation ?!

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i will explain.  Bengal should have a communist party which is nationalist socialist like china. meaning set nation first social agendas. that could be a unifiying force for Bengal.

 

Since its comfortably called communist by chinese the local population will buy into it thinking its really communist, whilst a clever party can introduce a carefully planned nationalist socialist agenda much like china.  With the literate public bengal will be a super GDP driver in a few years. 

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12 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Ja re Yar. Tujhse argue karna matlab banging head against a brick wall.

 

Well obviously Rajputs are not gonna be happy to find out that they are just a slightly older version of the 'Turki muslims' who invaded us or atleast, forms a big part of their cultural heritage.....

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1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

How do you do dictatorship of the proleteriat and swear loyalty to the military as a state within a non-commie nation ?!

i knew that is a literal take of my statement. i explain further in the above post. i mean a nationalist socialist agenda. not a pure worker focused left leaning agenda. 

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

i will explain.  Bengal should have a communist party which is nationalist socialist like china. meaning set nation first social agendas. that could be a unifiying force for Bengal.

 

Since its comfortably called communist by chinese the local population will buy into it thinking its really communist, whilst a clever party can introduce a carefully planned nationalist socialist agenda much like china.  With the literate public bengal will be a super GDP driver in a few years. 

how does this work when the nation itself is a democracy with rule of law ?

The Chinese communists have so much power because they were smart enough to put it in their fecking constitution that the legal system exists to 'uphold the example of the CPC'. Ergo, they can subvert the justice system whenever they want, officially & legally, to do their dirty work. This is the root pillar of Chinese social engineering....which Bong-land cannot do without changing the entire fecking Indian constitution...

 

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PS: We DO have a 'nation first socialist' party. It even enjoyed the initial platform of being *THE* party of the greatest pure pucca nationalist of the last 100 years from India - Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose. Forward Bloc. Currently has like 1 outta 120 seats in Telengana and 2 outta 300 seats in Bong-land. 
 

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1 hour ago, Vilander said:

 

'agenda' or biased information basically statements not backed by evidence. 

 

and if someone states something about any state without any evidence on show it could also be seen as agenda post. Don't use any false equivalence here. 

 

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

in the spirit , why dont you back it up with some data. specifically this.  Everything else is  wishful  thinking.

 

 

Ok start with this. No one talked about secessionist agenda anywhere but then you have identified some problems, kindly share the evidence for the bolded parts. 

12 hours ago, Vilander said:

Dude TN is not a ducking problem. Even if Christian missions take over in a dooms day scenario and move from their current lol worthy 2 6percent or Muslim from their current 5 6 percent move to some 10 percent there are still too many middle class Hindus and purely Tamil national Christians and Muslims for that state to have any secessionist agendas.  Problem is WB Kerala and ever problematic Muslim Kashmir UP and Hyderabad. 

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13 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Well obviously Rajputs are not gonna be happy to find out that they are just a slightly older version of the 'Turki muslims' who invaded us or atleast, forms a big part of their cultural heritage.....

Yeah sure whatever helps you sleep better at night.

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by nationalist socialist, I mean this.

 

In China every corporation has a communist party of China wing, thats too much intervention for our eyes in their eyes its workers first as a garb but a nationalist socialist agenda is hidden there, its an organized state-controlled economy ( party people will grow up the ranks in private corporations), it has just about the right amount of free enterprise for its people to create a good economy. 

 

small things like land ownership as well. 

 

If someone buys land in India its based on Indian govt allotment and revision on regularization ( patta katha etc). In china they are like leases for a couple of centuries, but ultimately owned by the state. Its the same but better controlled in china. 

 

we should not just subscribe to the western view, i am beginning to think some of the Chinese methods might work in certain sections of India, but not learned enough to understand the nuances.

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9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

that state to have any secessionist agendas.  Problem is WB Kerala and ever problematic Muslim Kashmir UP and Hyderabad. 

there is a full stop in there. sessionist agendas not linked to later part. 

 

the obvious problem i am talking about in the next line is the islamic population in the other states. we were talking about Abrahamic missionaries making public belive that sangam literature had nothing to do with dharmic religions.  

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

by nationalist socialist, I mean this.

 

In China every corporation has a communist party of China wing, thats too much intervention for our eyes in their eyes its workers first as a garb but a nationalist socialist agenda is hidden there, its an organized state-controlled economy ( party people will grow up the ranks in private corporations), it has just about the right amount of free enterprise for its people to create a good economy. 

and this is better because of why ?

2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

small things like land ownership as well. 

 

If someone buys land in India its based on Indian govt allotment and revision on regularization ( patta katha etc). In china they are like leases for a couple of centuries, but ultimately owned by the state. Its the same but better controlled in china. 

 

we should not just subscribe to the western view, i am beginning to think some of the Chinese methods might work in certain sections of India, but not learned enough to understand the nuances.

Hahahahahahaha. Its Chinese 'lease' is the reason why China has the largest flight of capital in recorded history. Why the * should i spend my hard earned $$ to 'lease' land from the government for 100 years, from which my grandkids can be kicked out of, instead of buying it till the end of time in a country that has rule of law ? 

Can't cite land ownership model of China for anything except for being the only damn nation on the planet where its economy grows at 7%, largest # of people directly lifted out of poverty, yet the largest amount of money stashed overseas by a country mile.

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1 minute ago, Muloghonto said:

and this is better because of why ?

imagine the TATA nano plan land issue, if a local party based ( worker rights group) had a firm role in the firm's internal ecosystem would the local population not feel more bold about allocating land may be maybe not in that specific case, but its a process. Economic freedom can be measured in many ways my friend, many roads to the same outcome. Some ways are more suitable for some than others.

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3 minutes ago, Vilander said:

imagine the TATA nano plan land issue, if a local party based ( worker rights group) had a firm role in the firm's internal ecosystem would the local population not feel more bold about allocating land may be maybe not in that specific case, but its a process. Economic freedom can be measured in many ways my friend, many roads to the same outcome. Some ways are more suitable for some than others.

err no, economic freedom is a pretty linear concept. you are confusing economic growth due to exploitation and nepotism with freedom. not the same. 

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

there is a full stop in there. sessionist agendas not linked to later part. 

 

the obvious problem i am talking about in the next line is the islamic population in the other states. we were talking about Abrahamic missionaries making public belive that sangam literature had nothing to do with dharmic religions.  

Islamic population in UP? And why Hyderabad? Evidence or your hunch? 

2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

now give me your evidence for your statements still not whataboutism. 

Where is the intelligentsia in TN now? A state that gave India Nobel Laureates, Abel Laureates, Fields Medalists, top scientists and engineers...where is the equivalent now? Where are the Tamil academicians (younger generation) in our top institutes these days? I study and work in an institute which is ranked pretty high as far as scientific excellence is concerned and I do travel to other institutes/labs for extended periods of time regularly......like I am right now. Some legendary minds from TN but they belong to an older generation and are close to retirement. The influx of faculty and students from TN is at an all time low, which wasn't the case earlier and mind you this place attracts the best minds in the country cos of reputation, it isn't a random college and admission requires merit. And majority Tamils that do enter are based in Mumbai, Delhi, Hyderabad etc. That is a good indicator of decline in standard of education in the state...my post was targeted at that aspect. 

When you have 70% reservation, a declining school standard system, a joke of a state board which doesn't challenge the young minds, a govt which opposes national competitive exams, a political environment which promotes mushrooming of farcical low standard private colleges that don't care about anything except money, if that isn't a downward spiral then what is?

How Tamil Nadu education system has turned into a vicious chain of apathy

Decline and fall of Tamil Nadu

 

And since I do work in this line, the proof is before me. I interact with faculty and students on a daily basis and travel frequently, so nothing malicious in my intent. I call it the way I see it and I take no pleasure in doing so. 

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5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Islamic population in UP? And why Hyderabad? Evidence or your hunch? 

publicly available all the riots and flame speeches, again in the context of the discussion then about  - sangam literature being called not related to dharmic religions and that being called as an anti hindu activity. I just pointed to actual anti hindu sentiment around the country.

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10 minutes ago, Gollum said:

When you have 70% reservation, a declining school standard system, a joke of a state board which doesn't challenge the young minds, a govt which opposes national competitive exams, a political environment which promotes mushrooming of farcical low standard private colleges that don't care about anything except money, if that isn't a downward spiral then what is?

How Tamil Nadu education system has turned into a vicious chain of apathy

Decline and fall of Tamil Nadu

hehe did you just search decline and fall of Tamil Nadu ? and find the first two links and shared them haha. :phehe:

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13 minutes ago, Vilander said:

publicly available all the riots and flame speeches, again in the context of the discussion then about  - sangam literature being called not related to dharmic religions and that being called as an anti hindu activity. I just pointed to actual anti hindu sentiment around the country.

Never mentioned that it's an anti-hindu activity... just said that it's related and influenced by the beliefs of the time.

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12 minutes ago, Gollum said:

so nothing malicious in my intent. I call it the way I see it and I take no pleasure in doing so. 

could be but you are misinformed.

 

read about urbanization in TN and its impact on the economy.

 

i will give you a small example. 

 

Karnataka a similarly developed state, often goes for quality - its ordered costly foreign ( chinese)electric buses for its mass transit system in Bangalore. TN tasks ashok Leyland to produce these inhouse.  The reason being there is an entire ecosystem of bus and heavy machinery building company(s) in TN that lobby for work ( public spending). TN ofter takes a economically sustainable route to urban development, it is plagued with lack of resources like rest of India, nothing points to any alarming trend anywhere 

 

You can take many such fields, there is urbal sprawl in TN that leads to economic and commercial activity

cotton - CB, silk - Kanchi, tanning hide - ambur/vaniambadi granites - dharmapuri, iron steel - salem, industrial estates if misc kind - thiruvallur/hosur with some automotive textile - erode thiruur , nuclear energy plants - pretty much one of the leading states with allocation , leading state in renewable energy - wind and solar , chemical - tutukodi

 

this is the reason TN is still a bigger economy than Gujrat :), its just sound economics. 

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

i will give you a small example. 

 

Karnataka a similarly developed state, often goes for quality - its ordered costly foreign ( chinese)electric buses for its mass transit system in Bangalore. TN tasks ashok Leyland to produce these inhouse.  The reason being there is an entire ecosystem of bus and heavy machinery building company(s) in TN that lobby for work ( public spending). TN ofter takes a economically sustainable route to urban development, it is plagued with lack of resources like rest of India, nothing points to any alarming trend anywhere 

 

You can take many such fields, there is urbal sprawl in TN that leads to economic and commercial activity

cotton - CB, silk - Kanchi, tanning hide - ambur/vaniambadi gra

False equivalence... Buses are not from China.... Karnataka under SM Krishna setup the Volvo manufacturing unit. Even the non-profit luxury buses are manufactured in Karnataka by Tata Marco Polo

Don't think that TN leads in GDP now

 

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9 minutes ago, diga said:

False equivalence... Buses are not from China.... Karnataka under SM Krishna setup the Volvo manufacturing unit. Even the non-profit luxury buses are manufactured in Karnataka by Tata Marco Polo

Don't think that TN leads in GDP now

 

TN leads who ? TN is number two in GDP in the country after Maharastra. It a bit more than Gujrat despite agriculture failure in 2017 due to monsoon failure and rive water sharing issues.

 

False equivalence where lol ? I quoted it as an example. 

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@diga

 

I was refering to this.

BYD for bangalore

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economictimes.com/industry/auto/auto-news/byd-goldstone-plan-5k-electric-buses-per-year/amp_articleshow/64485504.cms

 

Local Leyland for chennai.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/city/chennai/ashok-leylands-electric-bus-circuit-test-driven-for-mtc-in-chennai/amp_articleshow/59110095.cms

 

 

Similar case during train coaches etc. I remember Hydrabad complaining about quality of coaches to Chennai and refusing and those coaches were brought to chennai suburban rail network and people loved it. 

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/\ Lol this is from the chinese firm. How cute.

 

The localisation content in electric buses sold by Goldstone-BYD in India currently stands at around 35%. “I would like to have 100% localisation if possible, but unfortunately we do not have the ecosystem here,” Xie said.

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6 minutes ago, diga said:

Percapita GDP of Guj/Kar is more than TN if I am not mistaken..

Percapita nominal is based on population. In terms of percapita GDP india is lesser than srilanka iran iraq nauru guatamala etc lol..iraq has equal or better per capita gdp that china hehehe 

Edited by Vilander
Nominal

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1 minute ago, Vilander said:

Percapita is based on population. In terms of percapita GDP india is lesser than srilanka iran iraq nauru guatamala etc lol..iraq has equal or better per capita gdp that china hehehe 

Per capita GDP is more an indicator of standard of living 

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But whats your point @diga

 

So imagine Guj overtakes TN in GDP next year lets say and TN is 3 or imagine UP over takes all in 5 years ..so what ? 

 

My point is if TN is failing etc as alluded by Golum why does it have ok metrics for an Indian state ? I mean GDP infant mortality literacy etc.

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2 minutes ago, diga said:

Per capita GDP is more an indicator of standard of living 

Sure but how is that a point here. Imagine per capita of TN is 18k rs and Ka is 18005 rs. What does that say about TN failing etc ? Whats your point.

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2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Sure but how is that a point here. Imagine per capita of TN is 18k rs and Ka is 18005 rs. What does that say about TN failing etc ? Whats your point.

Nothing...except that a difference in GDP of 100 or 500 crores doesn't make a difference and your examples don't hold much water.every state is making an effort to improve the quality of life of its citizens , not only TN

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13 minutes ago, diga said:

BYD-Hyd is manufacturing buses in Kar and hopes for a contract from the state.. still not importing and no contract yet as you claimed

yeah BMTC swayed because they wanted to buy 3 volvo buses from germany instead of 1 byd from china.. :phehe:

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1 minute ago, diga said:

Nothing...except that a difference in GDP of 100 or 500 crores doesn't make a difference and your examples don't hold much water.every state is making an effort to improve the quality of life of its citizens , not only TN

correct my argument is for-TN not against any other state ( as a matter of fact KA and GJ should overtake TN in GDP in a 3-5 year period ) there is nothing failing there in TN either - its based on social indicators, investment climate, monsoon and development - there is nothing failing in TN either.

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21 minutes ago, diga said:

Vovlo has been manufacturing buses in Karnataka for more than 10 years now and yet you bring in import of chinese buses..

again selective comprehension - i was quoting electric buses. Volvo is also a foreign firm btw and that's another story. 

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4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

yeah BMTC swayed because they wanted to buy 3 volvo buses from germany instead of 1 byd from china.. :phehe:

Provide a source which says BMTC is operating imported buses instead of locally manufactured

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1 minute ago, Vilander said:

again selective comprehension - i was quoting electric buses. Volvo is also a foreign firm btw and that's another story. 

Ashok Leyland is owned by Hinduja brothers and last I heard they are not citizens of India

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3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Stop talking nonsense. In China you can literally get shot in the face, then thrown into jail for persuing a case. And thats just for starters. Stop trying to make it seem like justice doesn't exist anywhere because you live in this weird fantasy that people care more about money than not being slaves. China is a nation of slaves. 

Uhm...what ?! Dude, China is 97% literate. This is one of the very few things that commies are known for - literacy. China has been batting at over 95% literacy for 40 years now. 

False. democracy works even in a half literate nation like India. Which has been working for 70 years. More education leads to a more informed democracy but as India has shown the world, democracy can and does work even with hundreds of millions of illiterate people. 

Nobody except outsiders and the Chinese elites care about such nonsense. Again, i live in a city where every year thousands of common Chinese sell their kidneys or entire life savings to escape to. I am yet to meet an Indo-Canadian, who is not a Khalistani or Kashmiri terrorist, who has had to 'flee' India and live in a free land. 

 

You have no freedom in China, no voice, no expression and no justice. Just money and government approved entertainment. So stop making it sound like democracy doesn't work because a few Chinese elites are making a crap ton of money.

As always you throw a hissy fit when someone disagrees with you.

 

Look at Shanghai and compare it to Mumbai, where is the Dharavi equivalent in Shanghai or any other Chinese city?

The Chinese government gets things done, whereas the Indian political parties try to score cheap points in the name of religion, language, caste.

 

Freedom can be abused - defecating in public, littering everywhere, breeding like rabbits despite being dirt poor, building slum accommodation.

India is a bloody tip when it comes to cleanliness, sanitation and hygiene, no Indian government has done anything to resolve that problem in the last 70 years, neither have they done anything to control the population which is more than 3 times what it was in 1947. Indian governments have been a total failure. 

 

Even the industrial revolution in the west was harsh on the workers, it pretty much forced people from rural areas into the big cities to work in factories. However this revolution is what transformed western countries into the countries they are today and China is going through it's own revolution which its citizens are currently or will benefit from.

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5 hours ago, Yoda-esque said:

The days of doing politics the old wild West way are done.Models of governance have changed.

can you throw some more light on the highlighted pieces

 

How is TN politics relatable to 'wild west way' and what are the 'models of governance' that have 'changed'

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18 minutes ago, diga said:

Ashok Leyland is owned by Hinduja brothers and last I heard they are not citizens of India

ashok leyland is an indian automobile manufacturer head quartered in chennai. Hinduja grp is an indian conglomerate too, now it could have number of directors/vps with UK nationality how does that matter  exatly? and again whats your point. 

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5 hours ago, Yoda-esque said:


In 10 years,it's downward spiral will start

Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk
 

1

 

5 hours ago, Gollum said:

Downward spiral started

 

@diga my statements about TN economy and the general lack of 'downward spiral' and its current stature is for abutting my responses to these above statements. 

 

How is hinduja family staying in Uk have any bearing to this ?

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27 minutes ago, diga said:

Provide a source which says BMTC is operating imported buses instead of locally manufactured

locally manufactured is different from local IP. 

 

you can get into a manufacturing arrangement and manufacture from kits. for instance export kits from china or Malaysia ( where ever the kit manufacturing plant is - and manufacture the rest from raw material in a local plat and get 'locally manufactured' buses.

 

The point is by not going for Indian options a state government is spending public spending budget in shoring up revenue for foreign manufacturing activity. All this trickles down to net economic output.  

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19 minutes ago, Vilander said:

ashok leyland is an indian automobile manufacturer head quartered in chennai. Hinduja grp is an indian conglomerate too, now it could have number of directors/vps with UK nationality how does that matter  exatly? and again whats your point. 

If Volvo is a foreign firm, so is Ashok Leyland... check the ownership

Edited by diga

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8 minutes ago, Vilander said:

locally manufactured is different from local IP. 

 

you can get into a manufacturing arrangement and manufacture from kits. for instance export kits from china or Malaysia ( where ever the kit manufacturing plant is - and manufacture the rest from raw material in a local plat and get 'locally manufactured' buses.

 

The point is by not going for Indian options a state government is spending public spending budget in shoring up revenue for foreign manufacturing activity. All this trickles down to net economic output.  

Why don't you check what Volvo is doing and how much is the localisation content.. you did have numbers for the Chinese firm

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