Our power hitters in Loi's!! Who are they?

[express bowling]

18 hours ago, Cricketics said:

That is all correct but there are a lot of factors we need to see to make a good ODI team.

 

50 overs is an extremely long format compared to twenty20 where we do not just require just big hitters. I will keep players like Australai's Fynn and Yusuf in my 50 over team only if they show consistency to score runs in 50 overs. If they fail, I will ask them to stick to twenty20s. 

 

 

 

I am not asking for the inclusion of hacks like Yusuf Pathan in our ODI team......but want high average + high SR batters like Pant, Kishan and Hooda tried for the No.6 slot.

 

We have a very strong top 4 in Rohit, Rahul, Kohli, Dhoni and even Dhawan...all batters with very high ODI averages who can play through the innings.  

 

To complement them, we need a couple of high SR big hitters who will qualify as proper batsmen too.   Just check from the above list how many 330+ innings are being played these days. That would mean scoring at more than a run a ball.

 

Guys like Yuvi and Raina were not that consistent either.....but were very important cogs in the wheel  of the Indian ODI  batting line-up.   We cannot have just normal batsmen filling slots 1 to 7.

Edited January 1, 2017 by express bowling

[Cricketics]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Guys like Yuvi and Raina were not that consistent either.....but were very important cogs in the wheel  of the Indian ODI  batting line-up.   We cannot have just normal batsmen filling slots 1 to 7.

And hence similarly I have said earlier that we also cannot have a normal hitter and also I am fine with players like Pant included and tried. But we need to get out of the mentality that we need power hitters only.

 

If Pant fails for instance, I will like to replace him with another player who can play the game like Raina - rotate and hit and not somone who is just a power hitter. 

[express bowling]

27 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Amd hence Similarly Inhabe said earlier that we also cannot habe a normal hitter amd also I am fine with players like Pant included amd tried. But we need to get out of the mentality that we need power hitters only.

 

If Pant fails for instance, I will like to replace him with another player who can play the game like Raina - rotate and hit and not somone who is just a power hitter. 

LOL.....let us have one power-hitter between no. 5 to No. 7 first...then we can think about the "only "  issue     : )

 

It is like advising a person,  who has not eaten for 5 days , not to eat red meat as it can be bad for his health.   

 

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by express bowling

[Cricketics]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

LOL.....let us have one power-hitter between no. 5 to No. 7 first...then we can think about the only issue     : )

 

It is like advising a person who has not eaten for 5 days , not to eat red meat as it can be bad for his health.   

 

 

We do not need one:) We got that covered with our regular bats who can rotate and still win games :)

[express bowling]

21 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

We do not need one:) We got that covered with our regular bats who can rotate and still win games :)

I beg to differ,  Sir....we need high SR batters between No. 5 to No. 8....look at the list of SRs of such batters the world over in the last few years I have provided above  ( no Indians near the top even)  ...and most of those high SR batters all over the world have decent to high averages.

 

Also look at the number of 330+ scores being scored in the last 3 years....it can't be done just by rotating the strike and India has very few such scores, especially in the top 3/4 th.

 

We have lost 8 of the 13 series in ODIs we have played  in the last 3 years and a bit against non-minnows.....our consistency has gone down a lot and the main reason is not keeping up with the modern trend of  very high SR game in the last 15 overs.

Edited December 31, 2016 by express bowling

[GautiMaan]

Four-One loss against Australia has been forgotten

13 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

We do not need one:) We got that covered with our regular bats who can rotate and still win games :)

4-1 loss against Australia has been forgotten?

ODI squad is in desperate need of fresh blood especailly batsmen

Edited December 31, 2016 by GautiMaan

[Cricketics]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I beg to differ Sir....we need high SR batters between No. 5 to No. 8....look at the list of SRs of such batters the world over in the last few

No, you do not have to. I want high strike rate players too. Just do not want "only hitters" .  We almost won twenty20 world cup without such hitters. If anything, we might need one for twenty20 but not in 50 overs.

 

If Pandya fails as a hitter, we can not continue to keep looking for players like him who can be developed into a hitter. If there is any such talent, we will surely find in IPll, and if there is none, it is not a big deal as our other regular hitters can do a pretty good job to get us across the line.

 

As I said above, we need to try Pant and co, but not because they can just hit, in fact hoping that they can rotate also well and in case required to bat in the 25th over, they can play the remaining 25 overs to help us recover from the collapse and also ensuring the run rate is good.

 

As of now, that is the best we have. I don't think Pandya is Mxwell etc, so we can't depend on his hitting.

 

 

 

[BeautifulGame]

Four-One loss against Australia has been forgotten

4-1 loss against Australia has been forgotten?

ODI squad is in desperate need of fresh blood especailly batsmen

We lost that series because of our bowling nothing to do with batting .

We were missing both Shami and Ashwin which hurt us badly.Also now we have gained another quality seamer in Bumrah as well.

[Cricketics]

19 minutes ago, GautiMaan said:

Four-One loss against Australia has been forgotten

4-1 loss against Australia has been forgotten?

ODI squad is in desperate need of fresh blood especailly batsmen

Fresh blood - yes but if you read above, our discussion has gone to another level. We all are on same page that we need fresh players. Just that we shouldn't look to invest in players like Pandya too much. 

 

When i say that, I mean that try Pandya, but if he fails, then do not try to develop other good strike players into power hitters like Maxwell. We will keep giving them chances in search of that they might become beast hitter and then they will disappoint us like Yusuf did.

 

Let's look for regular fresh faces like Pant etc. 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

No, you do not have to. I want high strike rate players too. Just do not want "only hitters" .  We almost won twenty20 world cup without such hitters. If anything, we might need one for twenty20 but not in 50 overs.

 

If Pandya fails as a hitter, we can not continue to keep looking for players like him who can be developed into a hitter. If there is any such talent, we will surely find in IPll, and if there is none, it is not a big deal as our other regular hitters can do a pretty good job to get us across the line.

 

As I said above, we need to try Pant and co, but not because they can just hit, in fact hoping that they can rotate also well and in case required to bat in the 25th over, they can play the remaining 25 overs to help us recover from the collapse and also ensuring the run rate is good.

 

As of now, that is the best we have. I don't think Pandya is Mxwell etc, so we can't depend on his hitting.

 

 

 

 

Why are you assuming that the " hitters" will be hacks  ?

 

We have a wealth of good batters among our young brigade who can bat at a high SR too and hit the ball big.

[GautiMaan]

11 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

We lost that series because of our bowling nothing to do with batting .

We were missing both Shami and Ashwin which hurt us badly.Also now we have gained another quality seamer in Bumrah as well.

Im not saying we struggled with the bat,I recall a distinct lack of flourish towards the end of the innings which has been a problem for a while now.

Rahul should come in for Rahane.Manish and Kedhar must deliver consistently.

Edited December 31, 2016 by GautiMaan

[Cricketics]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Why are you assuming that the " hitters" will be hacks  ?

 

We have a wealth of good batters among our young brigade who can bat at a high SR too and hit the ball big.

ANd those wealth of cricketers whom you referring to as "hitters" are the one I am referring to as regular batsmen.

 

Just different term.

 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Just that we shouldn't look to invest in players like Pandya too much. 

Let's look for regular fresh faces like Pant etc. 

Pandya has not been chosen as a  specialist batsman but chosen as an all-rounder.   He has opened the bowling for us in ODIs....done well....and batted at No.8.....played one really good knock.

 

We cannot compare his batting to a top order batter  as of today.

 

His success or failure will be as an all-rounder.

 

Pant is anything but a " regular " fresh face.    He is the first batsman in the history of Ranji Trophy to score close to a 1000 runs in one season at a SR of  100+    ( SR of 107 and average of 81 )       : )

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

ANd those wealth of cricketers whom you referring to as "hitters" are the one I am referring to as regular batsmen.

 

Just different term.

 

 

Not a different term but a different  role.

 

The role of a batsman who comes in to bat in the first 5 overs is different from that of a batsman who bats in the middle overs  which is again different from that of those who bat in the last 10 overs.  

 

On a flat pitch in a high scoring match...batters batting in the last 10 overs will have to score 100 to 130 runs....and for that, they have to hit big with regularity as well as rotate the strike.

Edited December 31, 2016 by express bowling

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Pant is anything but a " regular " fresh face.    He is the first batsman in the history of Ranji Trophy to score close to a 1000 runs in one season at a SR of  100+    ( SR of 107 and average of 81 )       : )

Yes, that is why I want him in the team, but won't hype him and call him anything else.

 

He is a regular batsman. Calling regular does not mean calling someone "ordinary". 

 

Regular Batsman is definitely a better way to describe Pant than describing him as a hitter like most have done.

 

 

 

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Yes, that is why I want him in the team, but won't hype him and call him anything else.

 

He is a regular batsman. Calling regular does not mean calling someone "ordinary". 

 

Regular Batsman is definitely a better way to describe Pant than describing him as a hitter like most have done.

 

 

Describe him anyway you like  but that won't alter the way he plays his game....which is going for big shots in almost every over      :)

 

His batting style is very different from a Kohli or a Rohit.

Edited December 31, 2016 by express bowling

[MCcricket]

Requirements for batting in modern days, ODI , rotation of strike is essential with the ability to run quick n finding the gaps to boundary and then make a big score also lower down you need a batter who can bat with urgency to up the tempo and have the ability to chase 10 runs or more per over, earlier it used to be 6 to 7 runs per over now it is 10 or more runs per over, owing g to bigger scores now also ability to have the game to have to score that 15 to 25 runs per over the game changing one.

The modern day batsmen is much more dynamic n the game has changed big time last 10 years due to T20 n some of the great batters of the past with their game still did not score 360* like these new guys do, reverse shots are more common, hitting over the fielder n hitting those 20 to 25 run overs, n that requires so serious hitting power.

Look at guys like Rahul, Pandey, Pandya they can score at that rate n Rahul, Pandey can bat long and are proper batsmen, also Pandya is not a hitter or Pathan kinda player but he can bat .

The key is dynamic players, young guys , who scored heavily in Ranji at a good S/R are normally the more relented ones who are proper batters but can hit n score big.

[Cricketics]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Describe him anyway you like  but that won't alter the way he plays his game....which is going for big shots in every over      :)

 

His batting style is very different from a Kohli or a Rohit.

It surely is. And we wil do well to have him and players like Hooda and any other tom and Harry from our domestic as long as they understand that 50 overs is not beach cricket or twenty20 cricket and that we will have to rotate also.

 

Regarding your whole argument about us not able to chase 330ish scores- Yes, Pant and co will only help in chasing those targets not because they can hit, but that because they can bat with a good strike and rotate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cricketics]

2 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

Requirements for batting in modern days, ODI , rotation of strike is essential with the ability to run quick n finding the gaps to boundary and then make a big score also lower down 

 

There you have it. Need some one to hit sixes but rotation needs to be there otherwise "gayi bhains paani mein" kind of moments will happen. 

[MCcricket]

2 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

There you have it. Need some one to hit sixes but rotation needs to be there otherwise "gayi bhains paani mein" kind of moments will happen. 

Yes more so for top 4 or 5 ,the ratio changes with lower batting 6 to 8 as chasing score requires one or two big hits every over n then rotation , as now it is 10 runs per over then earlier 6 to 7 runs per over so stealing singles and play like Bevan n you can make it but now with 350 to 400 scores the requirements for ODI batters have changed n the I down selectors n captain dont get it.ABD is the classic example of modern dynamic ODi batsmen, can run pretty quick,hit gaps, hit big as well as play both Orthodox n unorthodox with high percentage.