Our power hitters in Loi's!! Who are they?

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

It surely is. And we wil do well to have him and players like Hooda and any other tom and Harry from our domestic as long as they understand that 50 overs is not beach cricket or twenty20 cricket and that we will have to rotate also.

 

Regarding your whole argument about us not able to chase 330ish scores- Yes, Pant and co will only help in chasing those targets not because they can hit, but that because they can bat with a good strike and rotate.

 

 

That will depend upon when they come in to bat.

 

If the team is 72 for 4 then we would need them to come in and bat sensibly....bat till the 42nd over without losing too many wickets....rotate the strike  and not throw their wicket away.

 

If they come in to bat in the 44th over with the team 250 for 4 then we would need them to come and try to hit every alternate ball for a 6 and play a cameo of 50 off 20 balls.

 

We need flexible batters at No. 5 and No. 6.....those who can consolidate the innings or  hit big  as per the team's requirement.

 

Now we have batters at No.5 and No.6  who can do the former but can't do the latter that well.

[Mosher]

5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

There you have it. Need some one to hit sixes but rotation needs to be there otherwise "gayi bhains paani mein" kind of moments will happen. 

We already have guys who can rotate the strike and run hard between the wickets. The only area where we are lacking is the big hitters down the order. This does not mean hacks need to be given chances but we should look for guys who can go big from the start while maintaining decent consistency. We need to cover all the bases.

[Cricketics]

19 minutes ago, Mosher said:

We already have guys who can rotate the strike and run hard between the wickets. The only area where we are lacking is the big hitters down the order. This does not mean hacks need to be given chances but we should look for guys who can go big from the start while maintaining decent consistency. We need to cover all the bases.

You said in the end " we need to cover all the bases" and the same apllies to guys coming down the order too. They should be the players who can "cover all the basis."

 

and hence I say that players like Pandya might not work when we are in deep shyt like 120-5 in 30 overs chasing 300 as it might be too early for them to understand the game of weather to hit or rotate and if that theu will be good enough to rotate and hang around for 20 overs.

 

Therefore I mentioned above that we all are on same page but need to make sure that we not over do this all rounder or beast hitter process after Pandya fails or if he does. 

 

If process Pandya do not work, we are fine without such players as long as we have players like the one we discussed earlier in this thread who can rotate and hit? And not just hit :)

 

 

 

[BeautifulGame]

You said in the end " we need to cover all the bases" and the same apllies to guys coming down the order too. They should be the players who can "cover all the basis."

 

and hence I say that players like Pandya might not work when we are in deep shyt like 120-5 in 30 overs chasing 300 as it might be too early for them to understand the game of weather to hit or rotate and if that theu will be good enough to rotate and hang around for 20 overs.

 

Therefore I mentioned above that we all are on same page but need to make sure that we not over do this all rounder or beast hitter process after Pandya fails or if he does. 

 

If process Pandya do not work, we are fine without such players as long as we have players like the one we discussed earlier in this thread who can rotate and hit? And not just hit :)

 

 

 

We need a player like Pandya because he also bowls reliable 10 overs .

If we are 120-5 chasing 300 even if we have a pure batsmen at 7 , the chance of winning is remote .

We need a player who can contribute reliably with the ball and can score quick 40s and 50s at 7.Thats the quality we should be looking at our no 7.

[Cricketics]

7 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

We need a player like Pandya because he also bowls reliable 10 overs .

If we are 120-5 chasing 300 even if we have a pure batsmen at 7 , the chance of winning is remote .

We need a player who can contribute reliably with the ball and can score quick 40s and 50s at 7.Thats the quality we should be looking at our no 7.

But national team isn't the one where we can try these things. If Pandya doesn't work, well then no worries. We move on and wait till someone special appears in IPL, instead of developing a hitter like Pandya in national team to see him fail again. 

 

Unless we see some some really serious hitter in IPL, we can not afford to bring him into ODI team to "develop" just for hitting purpose or all rounder. 

 

Pandya is in now, we have invested in him and he has been decent. Since everyone likes him so much, we can try him but if he fails, we can not pick another one like him.

 

Btw, I doubt Pandya is going to give us 10 overs. His bowling is okay. 

[BeautifulGame]

But national team isn't the one where we can try these things. If Pandya doesn't work, well then no worries. We move on and wait till someone special appears in IPL, instead of developing a hitter like Pandya in national team to see him fail again. 

 

Unless we see some some really serious hitter in IPL, we can not afford to bring him into ODI team to "develop" just for hitting purpose or all rounder. 

 

Pandya is in now, we have invested in him and he has been decent. Simce everyone likes him so much, we can try him but if he fails, we can not pick another one like him.

 

Btw, I doubt Pandya is going to give us 10 overs. His bowling is okay. 

Pandya isn't fixed but the role at no.7 is fixed .

We need a played who can score quickly and can contribute with the ball.If Pandya fails in that role we need to find a similar player for the role .

The only other option is picking a bowling all rounder like Jadeja/Axar at 7 which is a major reason for our struggles in Odis because they simply aren't adequate at 7.

Anyway Pandya has been pretty reliable as bowler ,swings the ball,hits the deck well and bowls at 140k .So not sure why he can't be a reliable bowler particularly away from home .

[MCcricket]

23 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

But national team isn't the one where we can try these things. If Pandya doesn't work, well then no worries. We move on and wait till someone special appears in IPL, instead of developing a hitter like Pandya in national team to see him fail again. 

 

Unless we see some some really serious hitter in IPL, we can not afford to bring him into ODI team to "develop" just for hitting purpose or all rounder. 

 

Pandya is in now, we have invested in him and he has been decent. Since everyone likes him so much, we can try him but if he fails, we can not pick another one like him.

 

Btw, I doubt Pandya is going to give us 10 overs. His bowling is okay. 

See I feel you don't rate Pandya at all , n I am not sure for what reason, maybe you think he reminds you of Kambli or he doesn't deserve to be picked.

See the truth is Pandya is a dynamic player n has a lot going for him, he is very athletic n fit, has played junior grade n A tours n performed, Dravid n other knowledgeable people have rated him n forwarded his name because he is hard-working, temperamentally strong, can bowl at very good speed n is a natural with the bat, not a hitter but a guy with a good hand eye n decent technique.

In his short career he has shown he belongs there, has improved quite a bit now bowling at 140, getting good movement n pace, quickly learnt from his mistakes n started bowling the right length as earlier he was bowling on shorter side also has ability to take wkts by bowling genuine wkt taking balls, n has shown accuracy as well.

Batting wise he has shown glimpses n has shown he has a power game but not a hitter but a guy who can bat at higher tempo n can hit boundaries, now you cannot have ready made world class players, but select the right ones n then support them, also he is a promising all rounder who can bowl n bat n not a bits n pieces guy.

Earlier you would see guys in domestic who were hitters n they have a higher S/R but lower average but this current gen have a more dynamic game where even a potential test batter has the ability to score at high S/R and still average over 50.

So a guy like Pandey, Pant, Ishan, Rahul, Hooda are not hitters or they will not have both a great average of 50 plus n great S/R as well but proper batsmen and that's what you miss here.A hitter is very limited n a old concept now what we see are dynamic player lower down who can score fast n also consistently because they are not hitters but 360 players n who can also clear the field at will.

Edited December 31, 2016 by MCcricket

[Cricketics]

7 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

Anyway Pandya has been pretty reliable as bowler ,swings the ball,hits the deck well and bowls at 140k .So not sure why he can't be a reliable bowler particularly 

 

I just feel it is too early and from what I saw him in Australia, he got away with some some of the bad balls he bowled.

 

Even against New Zealand, he gave us good start but is still averaging 35 over all as he does not look the bowler who can consistently apply pressure or cause oppositions to lose their run rate. I know it is too early to judge him as a ODI bowler since he just played 4 games, but his bowling does not give me much hope compared from the little I saw. I would love to be proven wrong 3-6 months from now. 

14 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

The only other option is picking a bowling all rounder like Jadeja/Axar at 7 which is a major reason for our struggles in Odis because they simply aren't adequate at 7.

Exactly, and that is why I said above that if someone is special, he shall make the name for himself in IPL kind of leagues and will get his chance accordingly in Indian team. Till then, we shoudln't worry about looking for all rounders who can hit well as there aren't many like Stoakes in India who have created name for themselves yet. Lets just focus on what we have. Pandya, if works, then great and if he doesn't then try to use options like Jadeja etc and rotate accordingly the other promising batsmen. 

[express bowling]

33 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

and hence I say that players like Pandya might not work when we are in deep shyt like 120-5 in 30 overs chasing 300 as it might be too early for them to understand the game of weather to hit or rotate and if that theu will be good enough to rotate and hang around for 20 overs.

 

 

In ODIs there is a limitation on the number of overs a bowler can bowl.......10.......that means we need atleast 5 bowlers.

 

That means we will have bowlers from 7 to 11 as we do not have anyone in the top 6 who can give 10 overs regularly.

 

That means we cannot choose a pure batsman at  No.7.

 

Whoever we choose at No. 7 will have to be a bowler who can bat  well  or a batsman who can bowl  8 to 10 overs.

 

Pandya is as good  as any we have for this role as of today.   If he is not good enough then neither is Jadeja or Axar or anyone else.

 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

The odi team needs fresh blood.

[Cricketics]

13 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

See I feel you don't rate Pandya at all , n I am not sure for what reason, maybe you think he reminds you of Kambli or he doesn't deserve to be picked.

See the truth is Pandya is a dynamic player n has a lot going for him, he is very athletic n fit, has played junior grade n A tours n performed, Dravid n other knowledgeable people have rated him n forwarded his name because he is hard-working, temperamentally strong, can bowl at very good speed n is a natural with the bat, not a hitter but a guy with a good hand eye n decent technique.

In his short career he has shown he belongs there, has improved quite a bit now bowling at 140, getting good movement n pace, quickly learnt from his mistakes n started bowling the right length as earlier he was bowling on shorter side also has ability to take wkts by bowling genuine wkt taking balls, n has shown accuracy as well.

 

Yes, you are right. I do not rate Pandya as highly. I am one of those Indian cricket die hard fan who goes behind protecting every Indian player, even when he is struggling and people are calling for him to be dropped. I will support them until they have been given proper chance as that is what I have done since last 10+ years on ICF and I will do that for Pandya.

 

That said, I play too much cricket. And sometimes I look the game in a different way then many which coulld both right and wronf. I am not always right, no one is. But from what little I saw of him, I am not too excited by him. I want to see him more with both bat and ball. In his short career, he has been decent to okay but not special to me.

 

I would love for him to do well as that will make us even a better ODI side.

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

The odi team needs fresh blood.

Thank You for this great suggestion. 

This was missing from our important debate.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Thank You for this great suggestion. 

This was missing from our important debate.

Important points need to be underlined.

[Cricketics]

11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Pandya is as good  as any we have for this role as of today.   If he is not good enough then neither is Jadeja or Axar or anyone else.

 

Historically we always need our bats to bowl overs most times. Like Raina has done, so yeah we will always need some contribution from our bats to bowl if we have any bowler who is going at a pretty high econ rate. Yes in that situation we will need to have backup bowlers and that is where my exact problem is. If a bowler other than Pandya is going for runs and since I do not rate Pandya "much" we could be in for some serious trouble even defending 315-330 scores. 

 

Poor Bhuvi will have to protect all the runs alone.

 

My worry is having Umesh and Hardik as part of same bowling attack. This will eventually cost us lot of games. 

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Historically we always need our bats to bowl overs most times. Like Raina has done, so yeah we will always need some comtribution from our bats to bowl if we have any bowler who is going at a pretty high econ rate. Yes in that situation we will need to have backup bowlers and that is where my exact problem is. If a bowler other than Pandya is going for runs and since I do not rate Pandya "much" we could be in for some serious trouble even defending 315-330 scores. 

 

Poor Bhuvi will have to protect all the runs alone.

 

My worry is having Umesh and Hardik as part of same bowling attack. This will eventually cost us lot of games. 

 

Umesh and  Pandya will not play many games together as our first-choice 3 quicks in ODIs  will be Bumrah, Shami, Pandya  or      Bumrah, Bhuvi, Pandya  when Shami is rested.  

 

Finding a 6th bowler ( backup for an off-form bowler ) will have to come from the top 6....and this is where someone like Karun Nair can come in handy.  He is a good batsman, we saw how he can accelerate when he went from 200 to 300 ...and he can bowl some overs.  He can be a good No.5., with Pant at No.6 and Pandya at No.7, Jadeja at No. 8. ....

Edited December 31, 2016 by express bowling

[Cricketics]

^lets see if mystery man Pandya will solve the puzzle. I doubt though

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

^lets see if mystery man Pandya will solve the puzzle. I doubt though

Who would you choose at No.7  ?

[Cricketics]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

Who would you choose at No.7  ?

Depending on conditins will either play extra bowler.

 

If spin conditions I would like to give chance to Negi. Wasn't tried in 50 overs and dropped after just 1 twenty20 game where he bowled fine with 4 overs for 16 runs and a wicket. How absurd is that?

 

My order 7-11 will look like this

Negi, Ashwin, Jadeja, Bhuvi, Bumrah

 

If seam conditons

I will replace Ashwin with a bowler like Sandeep Sharma.

 

So order 7-1 becomes 

Negi, Jadeja, Bhuvi, S.Sharma/Shami, Bumrah

 

on top I will open with Rahul amd Dhawan.

 

 

 

So team to win champions trophy final is released below:-

 

This will change if some players are available after they have been declared fit to like Rohit, Shami etc. 

 

Dhawan

Rahul

Kohli

Dhoni

Pandey

Raina

Negi

Jadeja

BhuvI

Sandeep Sharma

Bumrah

 

Negi, Raina and Jadeja together can really score fast.

 

And also if Dhawan and Kohli get out early, I will send Raina early to join Rahul to keep left right combo going and will bring Dhoni down. So we still have the hitter plus have a left-right going to annoy the opposition.

 

Squad will also have Rishab Pant deoending on how he does in India-Eng series. 

[MCcricket]

57 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

^lets see if mystery man Pandya will solve the puzzle. I doubt though

I dunno how you can say so emphatically? Also a player has to be supported but this is a professional sport n at some point accountability has to be there so there should be a balance, in India reputation n nepotism n non professional behavior precedes accountability, be it from management, selectors n captain or players.

You if I remember are based in US East coast? I have played as well , for division , that's the reason why it's more baffling when you rate Bhuvi as a good test bowler n not a second change in certain conditions or don't see what Pandya offers n straightaway say he has no pedigree?

[Cricketics]

Just now, MCcricket said:

I dunno how you can say so emphatically? Also a player has to be supported but this is a professional sport n at some point accountability has to be there so there should be a balance, in India reputation n nepotism n non professional behavior precedes accountability, be it from management, selectors n captain or players.

You if I remember are based in US East coast? I have played as well , for division , that's the reason why it's more baffling when you rate Bhuvi as a good test bowler n not a second change in certain conditions or don't see what Pandya offers n straightaway say he has no pedigree?

Bhuvi is a good test bowler, better than most. Even stats prove that. Though he is still early in his career and his best is yet to come. I rate them all but I do shield out the best among all.

Bhuvi is no Mcgrath and Umesh is no Brett Lee, but I know who is going which way. Bhuvi has control and hence I like hik more. I like bowlers who have more control.

 

I love pace, I love watching Starc in full flow like he was against Nz in world cup group against NZ, I like Umesh too when he runs in hard and bowls well with control, but we have tried him enough and even though he has gotten better, he has been an extremely slow learner who often still makes lot of mistakes. I will continue to back Umesh too but there will come a time when just like we worry so much about our batting youths like pant to be drafted into team, people will worry and question that why are we depending on Umesh for so long when someone new can be tried. I hope Umesh doesn't give them that reason to think that way and continues from where he left. This was one of his better series.