kira Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, putrevus said: I never said they were better than Sachin but I don't think Sachin was head and shoulders above them. The gap Viv had with his peers I don't think Sachin had that gap. Kohli has that gap at least in run chases. why wasn't sachin head and shoulders above them in the 90s? sachin batted with higher average and a higher strike rate, tendulkar dominated the 96 world cup, carried the Indian batting line up and still performed better than every one else, viv played in an era of lower competition, do you really think odi cricket of the 80s was as developed as the odi cricket of 90s? Who were the great odi bowlers from 70s and 80s, tell me one good odi spinner from the 70s and 80s who can compete with warne, murals and saqlain? tell me the fast bowers from 70s and 80s who can compete with ambrose, mcgrath, wasim and waqar, donald, pollack, mind you I am talking about ODIs and not test cricket Link to comment
Trichromatic Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: Pitches dont aid swing.Swing is in the air. I don't know. Do we see same amount of conventional swing now as we did in 90s? Link to comment
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, Trichromatic said: I don't know. Do we see same amount of conventional swing now as we did in 90s? The batsman now play attacking cricket the moment the ball is pitched up or walk down the pitch.That makes it difficult to swing the ball. Link to comment
kira Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: Zaheer faced the bowlers of Viv's team whom you rated as formidable.Viv faced Wasim Kapil IK and the likes. Tendulkar didnt even avg 45 let alone close to 55.Try again. lmao try again http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=runs;spanmax1=31+dec+2004;spanmin1=1+jan+1994;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting Sachin was head and shoulders above everyone, unlike kohli Link to comment
goose Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Tendulkar's one-day peak was 20 years ago. A single SIX was headline news with millions of youtube hits. Let that sink in for a second. The game has changed. Stop these foolish comparisons. I've seen both at their very best and in both cases it was nigh on impossible to imagine how anyone could play any better. Hitting sixes was the thing then. Today's batsman have to find another way to excel. Each generation has to find their own way to be better than their peers as the game evolves. MechEng 1 Link to comment
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, kira said: lmao try again http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;qualmin1=2000;qualval1=runs;spanmax1=31+dec+2004;spanmin1=1+jan+1994;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting Sachin was head and shoulders above everyone, unlike kohli LOL.Why count from 1994?Muhurat? Link to comment
kira Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: LOL.Why count from 1994?Muhurat? Because that's when sachin started to open the innings for India, seems like you are a kid who hasn't even seen sachin bat live Edited January 19, 2017 by kira Link to comment
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, kira said: Because that's when sachin started to open the innings for India, seems like you are a kid who hasn't even seen sachin bat live So only Sachins stats when he started to Open till 2004 matter?Rest of the time who was playing in his disguise? I have watched more cricket than you can possibly imagine.Stop cherry picking stats and using extremely selective cricterias. Link to comment
kira Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: So only Sachins stats when he started to Open till 2004 matter?Rest of the time who was playing in his disguise? I have watched more cricket than you can possibly imagine.Stop cherry picking stats and using extremely selective cricterias. lol so you expect a teenage sachin who batted at no. 6 or 7 to average in the 50s and have a strike rate of over 85? lol This is not cherry picking, sachin was just 21 in 1994 and once he got his proper position in odis, he was unstoppable, you can try to do the same cherry picking for kohli but he would not be so much ahead of his peers like tendulkar was, kohli has mostly been 2nd to abdv in the odis and even when he was ahead, the difference between the 2 was minuscule, also kohli has decent competition statistically from his own team from dhoni and also from amla, he hasn't dominated his peers like sachin, if you had watched as much cricket as you say then you would have known this fact. Link to comment
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, kira said: lol so you expect a teenage sachin who batted at no. 6 or 7 to average in the 50s and have a strike rate of over 85? lol This is not cherry picking, sachin was just 21 in 1994 and once he got his proper position in odis, he was unstoppable, you can try to do the same cherry picking for kohli but he would not be so much ahead of his peers like tendulkar was, kohli has mostly been 2nd to abdv in the odis and even when he was ahead, the difference between the 2 was minuscule, also kohli has decent competition statistically from his own team from dhoni and also from amla, he hasn't dominated his peers like sachin, if you had watched as much cricket as you say then you would have known this fact. Dhoni batted his entire career at 6-7 and avgd 50 plus with a SR of almost 90. If SRT would have done that he would have really been ahead of his peers. Kohli and Dhoni avg 50 plus with SR of almost 90 their entire career and only two other batsman have managed to do better in ODIs.This is without any cherry picking of stats. sscomp32 and Sidhoni 2 Link to comment
kira Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, Malcolm Merlyn said: Dhoni batted his entire career at 6-7 and avgd 50 plus with a SR of almost 90. If SRT would have done that he would have really been ahead of his peers. Kohli and Dhoni avg 50 plus with SR of almost 90 their entire career and only two other batsman have managed to do better in ODIs.This is without any cherry picking of stats. Do you know the average scores in the early 90s? are you serious right now? This has to be a troll, right? Link to comment
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, kira said: Do you know the average scores in the early 90s? are you serious right now? This has to be a troll, right? A certain Bevan played in 90s.Isnt it? Viv avgd 47 in 80s isnt it? I am not known to troll on these forums. Link to comment
putrevus Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) People get caught up too much on stats, Viv never had stats which Sachin or Kohli have but he is still regarded as best odi batsman.Heck even Haynes has more 100s than Viv and Haynes definitely knows who was better batsman. Even Sachin would agree Kohli is better player under pressure than him.It does not matter who has more strokes and other things. Edited January 19, 2017 by putrevus Link to comment
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 I havent seen a player pace his innings better than Kohli. jusarrived 1 Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 My choices 1. Sachin - had to withstand immense pressure from every corners thru out his career ever since he made his debut. Opened for vast majority of his career. Yet has several match winning knocks. Great stats & clutch knocks in world cups.Also great stats and clutch knocks in tournament finals , knockouts etc etc.Single handedly won multiple tournaments. Good to great stats in each and every country he played in despite facing several ATG bowlers.And great longevity too. 2. Dhoni - brilliant pressure player. great longevity.several clutch knocks .brilliant finisher. played a most crucial knock in 2011 world cup final which alone is equal to several such bilateral knocks. better finisher than Sachin, but that is understandable because Sachin was an opener. 3. Kohli - one of the best finishers of all time .slightly better to Sachin in finishing matches , but Sachin was an opener & so was comparatively harder to finish of matches.Kohli has been facing much easier bowlers, Kohli needs to prove lot more in multitournaments etc etc. Link to comment
Vilander Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Its quite phenomenal that Dhoni gets mentioned along with Kohli/Sachin, and even more phenomenal is the fact that its rightly so. Its Sachin>Kohli>Dhoni as of now. Kohli might be the best by the time he is done. Link to comment
Jimmy Cliff Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, putrevus said: People get caught too much on stats, Viv never had stats which Sachin or Kohli have but he is still regarded as best odi batsman.Heck even Haynes has more 100s than Viv and Haynes definitely knows who was better batsman. LOLwut. If anything Viv has BETTER stats than both of them. Viv averaged 47 at a SR of 90 when the rest of the batsmen struggled to strike at 70. Sachin and Kohli are no where near as dominant in their eras. 10 minutes ago, putrevus said: Even Sachin would agree Kohli is better player under pressure than him.It does not matter who has more strokes and other things. Not a single 50+ score in a WC knockout game and 1(13) while chasing in a WC Semi says otherwise. Sidhoni 1 Link to comment
Vilander Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 2 hours ago, goose said: Cannot compare eras but if you must it's still Tendulkar. You've just seen Yuvraj and Dhoni do what Kohli did on Sunday. Tendulkar did what nobody else could at the time. nailed it. Sachin was peerless for a long long time in his career. Link to comment
kira Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 16 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: A certain Bevan played in 90s.Isnt it? Viv avgd 47 in 80s isnt it? I am not known to troll on these forums. The same bevan who's average is boosted by not outs and strike rate is in the early 70s? lol surely you know the difference between a top order batsman and a finisher, only viv has a case against sachin but that needs a whole separate thread, like I said before if you have to bring viv in the discussion, that already proves the greatness of sachin, kohli is still a fair distance behind sachin, sachin was the undisputed best batsman of the world for more than a decade, kohli hasn't even been the best batsman of the world for even a year /thread sandeep 1 Link to comment
Malcolm Merlyn Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, kira said: The same bevan who's average is boosted by not outs and strike rate is in the early 70s? lol surely you know the difference between a top order batsman and a finisher, only viv has a case against sachin but that needs a whole separate thread, like I said before if you have to bring viv in the discussion, that already proves the greatness of sachin, kohli is still a fair distance behind sachin, sachin was the undisputed best batsman of the world for more than a decade, kohli hasn't even been the best batsman of the world for even a year /thread So not getting out is now a weakness? How does bringing Viiv in prove Sachin's greatness?No one here is denying his greatness.Point is who is better? The only blemish in Kohli's career is a big WC.That done and Kohli will likely be the best ever ODI batsman. Dhoni is arguably the best finisher ever. putrevus and sscomp32 2 Link to comment
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