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List of talented, young fast bowlers with pace in India

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I find the whole 'at his fastest/at his best' to be an ambiguous measurement that people take way too seriously.

 

There are plenty of fast/medium-fast bowlers, who bowl an effort ball that is genuinely quick. Best example: Kallis. Most of his career he bowled in the low 130s zone, with good bounce & cut. Made him 'someone you see off without much problems' type of bowler. But when he bent his back and produced his effort ball from short of good length, I've seen him make even Brian Lara and Steve Waugh hurry for pace. Could easily hit low 140s with it.


Pace matters, but it matters in far more in the 'stock ball' category of things or if extremely fast, some high-risk, high-reward deliveries, such as the yorker. 

We also need bowlers with bounce. Skiddy bowlers are all and good, but they need to be more than hip-high in their bounce from good length. That is the greatest danger and that is why, a big difference between Pushpakumara and Waqar Younis type bowler is the level of bounce. War could bounce it higher than the waist off of good length. That is the critical point of forcing the batsman on the backfoot: can you make it bounce more than waist-high. If you can't, life becomes very hard,because basically you cant bowl at batsmen's body too often and the pads (thus lbw) become a far less effective ploy.

 

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ID: 102   Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I find the whole 'at his fastest/at his best' to be an ambiguous measurement that people take way too seriously.

 

There are plenty of fast/medium-fast bowlers, who bowl an effort ball that is genuinely quick. Best example: Kallis. Most of his career he bowled in the low 130s zone, with good bounce & cut. Made him 'someone you see off without much problems' type of bowler. But when he bent his back and produced his effort ball from short of good length, I've seen him make even Brian Lara and Steve Waugh hurry for pace. Could easily hit low 140s with it.


Pace matters, but it matters in far more in the 'stock ball' category of things or if extremely fast, some high-risk, high-reward deliveries, such as the yorker. 

We also need bowlers with bounce. Skiddy bowlers are all and good, but they need to be more than hip-high in their bounce from good length. That is the greatest danger and that is why, a big difference between Pushpakumara and Waqar Younis type bowler is the level of bounce. War could bounce it higher than the waist off of good length. That is the critical point of forcing the batsman on the backfoot: can you make it bounce more than waist-high. If you can't, life becomes very hard,because basically you cant bowl at batsmen's body too often and the pads (thus lbw) become a far less effective ploy.

 

No bowler bounces the ball hip high from good length. Do you even know what you are you saying? I believe you are trying to say short of good length and not exactly good length. And when did waqar bounce the ball hip high from good length. You need to be tall to get the bounce from just short of good length. Likes of morne morkel does that regularly.

Edited by rkt.india

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50 minutes ago, renjith said:

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He doesn't look like a strongly built guy. With some strength training he can improve his speed further.

Strength training doesn't help in increasing pace much. It helps you sustain that pace for longer periods. Pace comes from your run-up and bowling action. Strength doesn't translate into pace all  the time.

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ID: 104   Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

I find the whole 'at his fastest/at his best' to be an ambiguous measurement that people take way too seriously.

 

There are plenty of fast/medium-fast bowlers, who bowl an effort ball that is genuinely quick. Best example: Kallis. Most of his career he bowled in the low 130s zone, with good bounce & cut. Made him 'someone you see off without much problems' type of bowler. But when he bent his back and produced his effort ball from short of good length, I've seen him make even Brian Lara and Steve Waugh hurry for pace. Could easily hit low 140s with it.


Pace matters, but it matters in far more in the 'stock ball' category of things or if extremely fast, some high-risk, high-reward deliveries, such as the yorker. 

What we are finding among most Indian fast bowlers these days is that their stock balls are quite quick and usually hover within 2 k to 3 k of their fastest ball of a spell.  We have seen  this with Shami, Umesh, Bumrah and Ishant.  Srinath had the same quality too.

 

Another issue is the ability to bowl that sudden faster ball.....something that Zaheer pointed out after he lost a bit of pace during his last 2 years.  He said that " nowadays i cannot bowl 137 k + consistently and, what I do is bowl some deliveries at around 132 / 133 k and suddenly bowl one at 138 k / 139 k with almost the same action and it surprises the batsman " . For pacers who are not consistently quick, this ability helps and I found thatr interview an interesting read.

 

Quote

We also need bowlers with bounce. Skiddy bowlers are all and good, but they need to be more than hip-high in their bounce from good length. That is the greatest danger and that is why, a big difference between Pushpakumara and Waqar Younis type bowler is the level of bounce. War could bounce it higher than the waist off of good length. That is the critical point of forcing the batsman on the backfoot: can you make it bounce more than waist-high. If you can't, life becomes very hard,because basically you cant bowl at batsmen's body too often and the pads (thus lbw) become a far less effective ploy.

 

 

The ability to get more-than-normal  bounce off length or just short of it,   is often the difference between a good international pacer and an ordinary one. The reason why I want pacers like Nathu Singh and Basil Thampi to be introduced in our pool of pacers  and the new kid being discussed, Aniket Choudhary, has this ability too. ( While guys like Dinda, Mohit, Vinay etc. did not have this ability and they failed dutifully ).

 

Another interesting issue here  ( which was being partially discussed by Nasser Hussain in our last test series vs. England )  is the greater effectiveness of skiddy fast bowlers with some extra pace in the sub-continent in comparison to the tall bouncy fast bowlers.   My personal observation is that those skiddy fast bowlers, who have the ability to get some balls to bounce higher-than-normal  from length or just short of it,  and some to skid-on along a lower trajectory, are the ones who succeed the most in India nowadays ( like Shami ).  It basically ends up surprising batsmen much more than just skiddy fast bowlers or just bouncy fast bowlers. The great Malcolm Marshall had the same quality.

 

We need to look for more such bowlers to partner Shami..... and Thampi and  Nathu are again 2 such names.....while pacers like Ishant, Aniket, Ankit Rajpoot etc. would be more the consistent bouncy variety to add variation to our pace attack in Asia and lead the attack on bouncier tracks outside Asia.

Edited by express bowling

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21 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

Would we ever fast track someone like this ? Or do we desire 5 years of trundling in ranji accumulating meaningless stats before being picked 

Tom  actually played for Middlesex seconds team. I have never known Indian bowler being so fast tracked.  Actually we do not have seconds team concept at all like in England. Where we score though is that we have lot of domestic tourneys as compared to that in England.

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22 hours ago, fineleg said:

^ Is he on average - 135-140 or 130-135 - that can make a difference.

(Hope he is not 127-132 Bhuvi like speed)

135-140ks I reckon.

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17 hours ago, renjith said:

I would replace bk with ankit rajput. He is the best uncapped quickie imo. 

Not even in the A squad.But ya he has tremendous potential..I rate him highly.

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ID: 110   Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Tom  actually played for Middlesex seconds team. I have never known Indian bowler being so fast tracked.  Actually we do not have seconds team concept at all like in England. Where we score though is that we have lot of domestic tourneys as compared to that in England.

We do have second teams and they are called u25, u23. Likes of Khalil, Avesh have been playing for U23 as they didn't make main squads. Even when he doesn't play for main squad play U23.

Edited by rkt.india

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15 hours ago, express bowling said:

What we are finding among most Indian fast bowlers these days is that their stock balls are quite quick and usually hover within 2 k to 3 k of their fastest ball of a spell.  We have seen  this with Shami, Umesh, Bumrah and Ishant.  Srinath had the same quality too.

 

Another issue is the ability to bowl that sudden faster ball.....something that Zaheer pointed out after he lost a bit of pace during his last 2 years.  He said that " nowadays i cannot bowl 137 k + consistently and, what I do is bowl some deliveries at around 132 / 133 k and suddenly bowl one at 138 k / 139 k with almost the same action and it surprises the batsman " . For pacers who are not consistently quick, this ability helps and I found thatr interview an interesting read.

 

 

The ability to get more-than-normal  bounce off length or just short of it,   is often the difference between a good international pacer and an ordinary one. The reason why I want pacers like Nathu Singh and Basil Thampi to be introduced in our pool of pacers  and the new kid being discussed, Aniket Choudhary, has this ability too. ( While guys like Dinda, Mohit, Vinay etc. did not have this ability and they failed dutifully ).

 

Another interesting issue here  ( which was being partially discussed by Nasser Hussain in our last test series vs. England )  is the greater effectiveness of skiddy fast bowlers with some extra pace in the sub-continent in comparison to the tall bouncy fast bowlers.   My personal observation is that those skiddy fast bowlers, who have the ability to get some balls to bounce higher-than-normal  from length or just short of it,  and some to skid-on along a lower trajectory, are the ones who succeed the most in India nowadays ( like Shami ).  It basically ends up surprising batsmen much more than just skiddy fast bowlers or just bouncy fast bowlers. The great Malcolm Marshall had the same quality.

 

We need to look for more such bowlers to partner Shami..... and Thampi and  Nathu are again 2 such names.....while pacers like Ishant, Aniket, Rajpoot etc. would be more the consistent bouncy variety to add variation to our pace attack in Asia and lead the attack on bouncier tracks outside Asia.

yes...ankeit chowdary has that ability.......he being tall helps him even more....

 

Shami has developed that ball from WI tour and he is rewarded plenty 

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10 minutes ago, gakgupta said:

yes...ankeit chowdary has that ability.......he being tall helps him even more....

 

Shami has developed that ball from WI tour and he is rewarded plenty 

Shami, Ishant, Pandya, Aaron, Nathu, Thampi, Aniket, Ankit,  Warrier....all have this ability of getting extra bounce from some length or just short of length deliveries.   They should form our fast bowler pool.

 

Umesh, despite being very fast, is not very good at this....and this partially explains his less than expected success at international level.  He has improved this aspect in the last series against England though.

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Shami, Ishant, Pandya, Aaron, Nathu, Thampi, Aniket, Ankit,  Warrier....all have this ability of getting extra bounce from some length or just short of length deliveries.   They should form our fast bowler pool.

 

Umesh, despite being very fast, is not very good at this....and this partially explains his less than expected success at international level.  He has improved this aspect in the last series against England though.

But I feel, out of most of them, Umesh if given confidence and chance, will succeed the most.

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13 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

But I feel, out of most of them, Umesh if given confidence and chance, will succeed the most.

Now that he has started to get some bounce, I feel Umesh's wicket count in tests may go up suddenly if he is able to maintain his new-found accuracy 

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13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Now that he has started to get some bounce, I feel Umesh's wicket count in tests may go up suddenly if he is able to maintain his new-found accuracy 

With Umesh the only thing i have been wondering in recent times why has he stopped using that sliging arm action with old for reverse swing that he used against Sa in 4th and somewhat against Wi in 1st.....post that i dnt think he used that ploy. 

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9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

With Umesh the only thing i have been wondering in recent times why has he stopped using that sliging arm action with old for reverse swing that he used against Sa in 4th and somewhat against Wi in 1st.....post that i dnt think he used that ploy. 

Yes....Umesh bowling slightly wide of the crease with a somewhat slightly action made it difficult for the batsmen to play him

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6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Yes....Umesh bowling slightly wide of the crease with a somewhat slightly action made it difficult for the batsmen to play him

Yup he isnt even using the crease much.......who asked him to stop doing what was working for him. 

Reverse swing becomes more lethal with a slingy action specially at his pace, had he used those ploy in past few test his wkt tally wud hve been diff. 

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I rate Indian prospects in this order:

1.Nathu Singh

2.Ankit Rajput

3.Aniket Choudhary

4.Avesh khan

5.Shardul thakur

 

Sran is skillfull but not sure about his fitness and pace.Pawan Suyal and Sanghwan don't rate them much.

 

Did not watch thampi and warrior much so no comments.

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13 minutes ago, Pollack said:

I rate Indian prospects in this order:

1.Nathu Singh

2.Ankit Rajput

3.Aniket Choudhary

4.Avesh khan

5.Shardul thakur

 

Sran is skillfull but not sure about his fitness and pace.Pawan Suyal and Sanghwan don't rate them much.

 

Did not watch thampi and warrior much so no comments.

U shud see Thampi's videos then , ur list wud change afterwards

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On 2/6/2017 at 7:52 AM, rkt.india said:

Strength training doesn't help in increasing pace much. It helps you sustain that pace for longer periods. Pace comes from your run-up and bowling action. Strength doesn't translate into pace all  the time.

i have heard people say its the delivery stride, and the non bowling arm positioning. 

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6 hours ago, Pollack said:

I rate Indian prospects in this order:

1.Nathu Singh

2.Ankit Rajput

3.Aniket Choudhary

4.Avesh khan

5.Shardul thakur

 

Sran is skillfull but not sure about his fitness and pace.Pawan Suyal and Sanghwan don't rate them much.

 

Did not watch thampi and warrior much so no comments.

there is a thread for Thambi's videos, check that out he will be in your top three after that. Sandeep is pretty good too.

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I am a Basil fan, after watchng his videos...Man he bowls a heavy ball...it seems to almost explode off the pitch in some cases.

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We do have second teams and they are called u25, u23. Likes of Khalil, Avesh have been playing for U23 as they didn't make main squads. Even when he doesn't play for main squad play U23.

 

 

Those arr age group teams, secobd team is totally different concept

 

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

 

 

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11 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

This basil guy 

 

need to see him live in proper game . All this seeing videos , not sure .

 

people have seen him live in a proper game.

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12 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

 

 

Those arr age group teams, secobd team is totally different concept

 

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

 

 

In Indian domestic, they are the second teams.

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ID: 132   Posted (edited)

On 2/6/2017 at 8:00 AM, express bowling said:

 

 

The ability to get more-than-normal  bounce off length or just short of it,   is often the difference between a good international pacer and an ordinary one. The reason why I want pacers like Nathu Singh and Basil Thampi to be introduced in our pool of pacers  and the new kid being discussed, Aniket Choudhary, has this ability too. ( While guys like Dinda, Mohit, Vinay etc. did not have this ability and they failed dutifully ).

 

 

 

 

This ability to generate bounce from short of good length is totally dependent on height. I have not seen any Asian bowler who could do that consistently, all Asian bowlers are more swing dependent (conventional and reverse) than seam and bounce due to nature of pitches they play.

 

Ishant has the height but he floats the ball . As you mentioned skiddy bowlers are effective as their bounce is more towards the head rather than over the head making it very awkward to duck but it needs to be bowled at certain pace not many Indian bowlers have that pace.

Edited by putrevus

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ID: 133   Posted (edited)

McGrath was champion of bounce from good lengths.Haven't seen many who do that.

Edited by Pollack

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

This ability to generate bounce from short of good length is totally dependent on height. I have not seen any Asian bowler who could do that consistently, all Asian bowlers are more swing dependent (conventional and reverse) than seam and bounce due to nature of pitcy play.

It is also dependent  on the ability to hit the deck hard and landing the ball on the seam with consistency.

 

Shami gets more than normal bounce from length or just short of it , especially from 2016. So does Aaron, Ishant Bumrah and Pandya. 

 

It is true that out natural tendency was swinging the ball....but we saw bouncy seam bowlers like Srinath, Ankola, Kuruvilla, Munaf in the past and Shami , Ishant,  Bumrah nowadays and Pandya has that ability too.

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

 

Ishant has the height but he floats the ball . As you mentioned skiddy bowlers are effective as their bounce is more towards the head rather than over the head making it very awkward to duck but it needs to be bowled at certain pace not many Indian bowlers have that pace.

We have quite a few pacers now who have the pace.... like  Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Aaron, Bumrah, Pandya.

 

Also, Ishant hits the deck hard at 50% of the time he bowls.

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21 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

This basil guy 

 

need to see him live in proper game . All this seeing videos , not sure .

 

Recorded videos are of games which were once played live.

 

It is common sense. The guy is running in hard and bowling like any other speed demon in International cricket. 

 

We need to get him for 50 overs right after champions trophy is done, so he can get a proper chance in bilateral series. Let him fail but give him a proper 50 over game chance, and not in any bullshyt 2020 tournament. 

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11 hours ago, rkt.india said:

In Indian domestic, they are the second teams.

I don't agree with that. The seconds teams concept is just not there for our state teams like they have in county's.

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12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

It is also dependent  on the ability to hit the deck hard and landing the ball on the seam with consistency.

 

Shami gets more than normal bounce from length or just short of it , especially from 2016. So does Aaron, Ishant Bumrah and Pandya. 

 

It is true that out natural tendency was swinging the ball....but we saw bouncy seam bowlers like Srinath, Ankola, Kuruvilla, Munaf in the past and Shami , Ishant,  Bumrah nowadays and Pandya has that ability too.

We have quite a few pacers now who have the pace.... like  Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Aaron, Bumrah, Pandya.

 

Also, Ishant hits the deck hard at 50% of the time he bowls.

IMHO more than pace and bounce these guys need to learn art of running thru batting lineups.They look like million dollars when they have no responsibility of running thru lineups because spinners are doing all the heavy lifting.As Ganguly said one or two wickets by fast bowlers will not win you matches overseas they need to take five-fers.

After Srinath we do not have another fast bowler who has taken 10 plus wickets in a match at home and Ishant has one that too against a weak WI where they ran out steam and could not force a win.

 

They for some reason cannot put togther a complete match , they simply run of gas in one innings.I do not know how they are going develop that skill .Yadav was unlucky and did bowl very well but he took 8 wickets after playing all five tests.He has one 5fer.He is 29 and already showing signs of slowing down.When will these guys learn to take wickets.

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I agree on that. Our pacers are short on performance. They struggle to take 5 fers as frequently as bowlers of other teams.It would be interesting to see data of how many 5 fers our pacers have taken in last 100 bowling innings.

 

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On 06/02/2017 at 6:22 PM, rkt.india said:

Strength training doesn't help in increasing pace much. It helps you sustain that pace for longer periods. Pace comes from your run-up and bowling action. Strength doesn't translate into pace all  the time.

I agree that strength alone does not produce speed. But a physically weak bowler who already have a smooth run up and action can increase his speed by around 5k just by improving his physical strength. Strength helps to get the optimum output from the different aspects of bowling that contributes to speed.

For example if you have a stronger lower body your run-up and leap will produce more momentum. You will not loss balance on landing helping you to pass maximum amount of momentum from your run-up and leap onto upper body. From there on the more stronger your core and shoulders are the more power you can generate through hip rotation and body twisting as well as use of left arm.

Generally speaking strength training is an important thing if someone is trying to increase his speed. Ofcourse the bowler must have an optimal run up and action to reap the benifits of strength.

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ID: 140   Posted (edited)

Any info on this guy ? He is in the auction too

 

Quote

 

Khejroliya, a left-arm seamer, was included as cover for Ashish Nehra, who has consented to play three matches: against Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh. Nehra is part of the attack that is being prepared for the Champions Trophy in England in June.

On Khejroliya, Bhaskar said: “He is quick. His pace can be an asset.”

Khejroliya, who is not a local talent, had been in the scheme of things from the start of the season but was not picked because of domicile issues. The left-arm seamer was scheduled to make his First Class debut for Delhi but could not furnish a local address to be able to meet the qualification norms set by the Delhi and District Cricket Association.

The selectors named him in the squad after he furnished the necessary documents to support his local domicile.

 

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-sports/Unmukt-Chand-left-out-of-Hazare-squad/article17316623.ece

 

Quote

The additional member of the squad is a rookie left-arm speedster Kulwant Khejroliya, who recently was seen bowling at a brisk pace at the Delhi Daredevils nets. Kulwant will travel with the team and if need be played a List A match.

http://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/unmukt-chand-axed-from-delhis-vijay-hazare-squad-ashish-nehra-to-play-three-games-4528315/

Edited by msplash9

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ID: 144   Posted (edited)

41 minutes ago, maniac said:

How quick is Saini...listed as Right Arm Medium?

all Indian pacers at the start are listed as * arm medium. Even Basil Thampi is listed as right arm medium.

Edited by rkt.india

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ID: 145   Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

all Indian pacers at the start are listed as * arm medium. Even Basil Thampi is listed as right arm medium.

Even Jasprit Bumrah is shown as medium and Pandya is medium-fast  in espncricinfo

 

Umesh and Shami are both shown as  fast-medium     :facepalm:

Edited by express bowling

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6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

all Indian pacers at the start are listed as * arm medium. Even Basil Thampi is listed as right arm medium.

True.....only Aaron I believe is listed as Right Arm Fast.

 

 


 

 

 

 

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ID: 149   Posted (edited)

15 hours ago, msplash9 said:

Here's Kulwant Khejroliya. He is from Rajasthan.

 

 

Edited by rkt.india

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